Project M ... Why?

[Windstar120025]

Yes people this is in some way a Rant Post if it is not approved to be in this section pls move it, if people don't like or agree with the Opinions stated in this Post, go ahead and reply with your thoughts but pls be respectful this is just what I am Hoping for in Project M Due to what the Game IS EXPOSED TO BE ABOUT!

As we know the Project M game, brought together by the amazing PMBR has in itself become a Tournament holding game. There are many people that enjoy it and its melee like mechanics. However that is a point to which i feel needs talked about. As we know Project M is exposed to be LIKE melee not just as as close as we can Carbon Copy of Melee. With this said i question why the PMBR has Not taken approaches to avoid having things such as the Teir List fall to the same point as it was with Melee most Notable the Highest of the Teirs Fox and Falco. There really is no Point in arguing that Both Fox and Falco don't have an extreme presence within the Project M Competitive Play. True alot of Charactors are still being mixed into the High based competitive level but all i still see from Competitive battles when at their peek is a Majority of People challenging each other to a match of Who can play Fox/Falco better then the other. With such being true, would it not be best to try to avoid having the same monopolized teir list as Melee by Retiring the Stars of Melee, and bringing in new blood to the top tiers. Apparently not!. True there surely is a Higher qyuantity to diversity with Project M the Protection of these two characters are still a priority. Just look at Sonic 2.5, true sonic had finaly risen to the point where he actually had playing capabilities that matched what his base character design was capable of. But since the not even too over bearable move pool he had threatened the top Teirs the PMBR had him hacked to pieces, taking away not just the few things that made him good, but the recovery that made him slightly unpredictable.I don't know whether or not it was due to some respect for Melee but the revival of Marth and Shieks primary play style IS enough Melee Nostalgia for the Project M Meta Game.

So please Project M Back Room and others who read this Post, I am Just a simple person who believes steering this great game towards the same Teir Listing as melee might not be the best Idea. I would just love to see some of such be taken into mind.
Here are some simple ideas:

Though Sonic might not need every things he had from PM 2.5 back the Great Down-b Mind games he played were not to far out of his characters limits, and the Extreme nerving he received surely was not needed. Restoring just the Down-b Shenanigans he had would be a great and NEEDED plus for him. Though i have many people disagreeing with me, i have time after time proven to myself just how much his Mirror opposite Gannon can counter him. A i should note though Sonic has great ground covering speed his attacking speed is some times mediocre at best, notably when comparing the fact that majority of all his aerials with exception to his Neutral-air and Down-air are all slower and in situations weaker than not just Gannons Jab but Neutral-Air as well. And though Sonics speed on Ground is Great it just is not complimented well enough with his attacking speed and frames for him to shine as he should. To be fair the simple ability to dash cancel his Down-B and dash attack would be enough to give him the edge he needs.

Though this ,may be Hypocritical of me to say but the Idea of Fox/Falco being Top tiers is something I can accept but i just feel that Having the Two best characters from Melee shiny Just as Brightly in Project M for the exact same game style is kinda Hypocritical in itself. I just CHALLANGE the Project M Back Room and the Smash Community, to accept that they can be played differently and still be just as good. As we know they seem to be the two least tampered with characters of the Cast as well as the most dominating during play. So with such being true I simply Challenge PMBR to find alternate Movesets for them that can allow them to still be GREAT just Not the Exact same as Melee.

 

[Y-L]

You aren't seeming to understand that the melee top tiers have a decade of metagame behind them while the other characters have a few months worth. There is so much untapped potential in PM so obviously melee top tiers are going to be prevalent, but the PMBR has overall done a great job at balancing the game, that's why there still is no agreement on a tier list.

It sounds to me like you just are upset that Sonic isn't good enough, however he's still very good. He's got some crazy combos and can cover a ton of ground while having a great recovery still. If you're losing the Ganon matchup, you've still got a lot of learning left to do.

Let the game develop and the metagame of new characters evolve and spacies will become less prevalent. People play them because they know they work well in melee. I can already see Lucas being a top tier in PM.

 

[Brim]

Can I just point out that since this game is a Brawl / Melee hybrid, Fox and Falco are so good because the game itself is so fast paced. It's why characters like Roy have a really tough time in this game and out of almost all the power characters DK is one of the few played competitively at all. I don't even see very many DKs.

 

[Windstar120025]

Y-L i know its just i would love to see them try to make the Meta change a bit i know they try and Really appreciate how much they do try. Its just i cnat get over the fact that after a decade of Being the most seen of all characters its time they attempt trying new Playstyles for them. That way others might have a chance of being the New Top Tier character. Like I said and kinda Quote they are attempting to make a game that has Melee mechanics but in itself is not Melee, and i believe Making the two top Characters take the sidelines might be best for the momment. We cant get rid of nostalgia from Melee, but they arn't in melee ANYMORE, and such Challenge PMBR to Find new and Creative ways thiese Characters can fight without having nuthing but the same overpowered Skills they had last Gen.

Lol i am also glad that the first few people to reply are actually cool with their reply. Am not a fan of those people out there that have nuthin but hate for those with opinions.

Y-L yes i Understand that they have the Nostalgia i am sorry i didn't really address that in the Original post. And yay some one else who see's the greatness of Lucas!

As for the Sonic bit i am disappointed that he isn't good enough. What he had wasn't to much for his Base character if you know what i mean, and not only that, the amount they nerfed him was outrageous in its own way. Lol they took of recovery ability move power and Utility , and they were not cool about it in any way.

 

[9bit]

The PMBR do not consider it their job to change the meta or influence the tier list. They want to make good characters and let the community evolve things. The top 8 characters from Melee were left relatively unchanged in order to help the PMBR have a baseline for developing other characters.

If you want a game that isn't about that stuff, then you are free to make your own, but I don't expect the PMBR to deviate much from their own goals with the game. Also you should edit your post instead of double/triple/quadruple posting.

 

[Windstar120025]

Hmm True but i did think it was within their goals to avoid making as much of it carbon copies of Melee. But i Guess they could just be doing the Whole Brawl Minus/Plus thing and attempting to make all characters as Viable as Fox in the Melee Meta. True True i forgot that that could be a thing. AS of such im more of the Possibility thinker than maker. Making my own game? lol why i dont have the know how, nor do i want to, Project M is all ready really Good and I am Just hoping for a Simple bit more than the same characters dominating the Meta. as For properly making every one Viable to Fox meta from Melee they have long way to go.

and Sorry i just ended up forgetting about the Edit reply thing sorry bout that

 

[Y-L]

Hmm True but i did think it was within their goals to avoid making as much of it carbon copies of Melee. But i Guess they could just be doing the Whole Brawl Minus/Plus thing and attempting to make all characters as Viable as Fox in the Melee Meta. True True i forgot that that could be a thing. AS of such im more of the Possibility thinker than maker. Making my own game? lol why i dont have the know how, nor do i want to, Project M is all ready really Good and I am Just hoping for a Simple bit more than the same characters dominating the Meta. as For properly making every one Viable to Fox meta from Melee they have long way to go.

Lol I main Ike and he has a chain grab on Fox until 50 and that leads into a pretty consistent f smash which kills a lot of the time. Ike has a huge disjoint against fox and can edgeguard very easily. Trust me, there's a lot of characters that are viable.
and Sorry i just ended up forgetting about the Edit reply thing sorry bout that

 

[Windstar120025]

lol Ike is one of the Few i appreciate above all others for his Skill. He is My main untill i can find a way to get Sonic to beat Ganon. its just like Geez as soon as he starts backward jumping N-Air he just shuts me out. And apparently there is Some sorta glitch were Ganon can grab some one during L-cancel framed landing.

There are characters that have been properly balanced. Ike is one of the few I can accept. there are however some i just can't since they seem to be a bit overdone. Such as my most hated Gannon! His Sheer size makes Sonic approaching the hardest thing to do, and not only does sonic have to try and space him out cuz his moves are just fast enough and large enough, but sonic has practically no means of using majority of his attacks for spacing, and this is after hours on end of Practicing. True lvl 9 comps are actually good nowadys so I need to get past him beofr i do anything else. I also love how it seems the only projectile Gannon can't plow through with his wizard foot is Links Bomb.

 

[ShadowGanon]

lol Ike is one of the Few i appreciate above all others for his Skill. He is My main untill i can find a way to get Sonic to beat Ganon. its just like Geez as soon as he starts backward jumping N-Air he just shuts me out. And apparently there is Some sorta glitch were Ganon can grab some one during L-cancel framed landing.

There are characters that have been properly balanced. Ike is one of the few I can accept. there are however some i just can't since they seem to be a bit overdone. Such as my most hated Gannon! His Sheer size makes Sonic approaching the hardest thing to do, and not only does sonic have to try and space him out cuz his moves are just fast enough and large enough, but sonic has practically no means of using majority of his attacks for spacing, and this is after hours on end of Practicing. True lvl 9 comps are actually good nowadys so I need to get past him beofr i do anything else. I also love how it seems the only projectile Gannon can't plow through with his wizard foot is Links Bomb.

It's kind of odd that you don't know this, but Ganon's n-air auto-cancels from short hop, making it so when he lands he only has 4 or 5 frames of lag (as if he had just performed an empty hop). There is no L-canceling needed. The Ganon mains call it the arty vortex after the smasher who discovered it.

Lv. 9s are still trash compared to a human opponent.

I don't get to play that many Sonic mains, but I can tell you right now that once you're inside with Sonic, you should be able to do a decent amount of damage. Ganon has zero good options out of shield.

About Ganon's boot. Any projectile that shoots above Ganon's foot knocks him out of it. It also clanks with Link's boomerang, Samus' charged shot, and Lucario's Spirit Bomb (and maybe his charged shot?). I know, that might seem a bit OP. But without the boot, Ganon has no hope against characters that have a projectile. But, it is a very bait-able move.

You can either choose to complain about how you can't seem to beat Ganon and ask for Sonic buff/Ganon nerf, or you can get better. I really hope you choose the second option. There is already enough complaining about (insert non-Fox/Falco/Link/Zelda/Lucas/Pit character here) needing buff.

 

[lubko]

...the melee top tiers have a decade of metagame behind them while the other characters have a few months worth. There is so much untapped potential in PM...

/thread

My experience: saw smash doc, never knew about the smash scene when I played melee back in the day with everyone in the neighborhood, see project m, want to play and get good. BUT so much of PM is uncharted territory where as guys like Fox, Falco, and Marth have so much documentation (That translates really well from melee to PM) and guides on them that it makes a lot of sense for me to learn how to use them and use the resources for them that have been built over the past decade and THEN go on to explore new things. y'know? I feel like that might be a lot of other born again (lel) players philosophy might be too.

Give it time and keep exploring Sonic.

 

[Y-L]

lol Ike is one of the Few i appreciate above all others for his Skill. He is My main untill i can find a way to get Sonic to beat Ganon. its just like Geez as soon as he starts backward jumping N-Air he just shuts me out. And apparently there is Some sorta glitch were Ganon can grab some one during L-cancel framed landing.

There are characters that have been properly balanced. Ike is one of the few I can accept. there are however some i just can't since they seem to be a bit overdone. Such as my most hated Gannon! His Sheer size makes Sonic approaching the hardest thing to do, and not only does sonic have to try and space him out cuz his moves are just fast enough and large enough, but sonic has practically no means of using majority of his attacks for spacing, and this is after hours on end of Practicing. True lvl 9 comps are actually good nowadys so I need to get past him beofr i do anything else. I also love how it seems the only projectile Gannon can't plow through with his wizard foot is Links Bomb.

The reason you're losing to Ganon is because you just run in miss and get punished. Try waiting for Ganon to approach you and punish him instead. Ganon's wizard's foot is incredibly easy to punish and so is his choke attack, just jump over (sonics jump is really fast) and punish the hell out of that.

 

[Tryst]

As for the Sonic bit i am disappointed that he isn't good enough. What he had wasn't to much for his Base character if you know what i mean, and not only that, the amount they nerfed him was outrageous in its own way. Lol they took of recovery ability move power and Utility , and they were not cool about it in any way.

Being a Sonic Main myself, I know that this is all wrong. He has tons of recovery options and things to mix it up. His Side B is amazing for basic recovery and then if it is a walled edges stage you can use a Dair and then wall jump out of it to mix your opponent up and there are just soooo many options with nearly everything. He has tons of utility too for example, his Fair was suuuuuper buffed with that amazing sweetspot metor that I love. Then his SFFLing is insanely helpful on ground. They did change sonic from 2.5 because that was just insane and too easy to beat even top players with. All the non-Melee top 5-ish are very changed so that they can soon possibly become top teir. We just need to take a lot of time to develope. For example, Link in melee wasn't that great, but in Project M he has already been climbing the charts pretty significantly. For Gannon you should try to stick to SFFLing and Air attacks. Homing attack is also very helpful too.

 

[CORY]

no, for ganon just dd camp and bait him into doing stuff, then go for the punish. you need to be pretty unpredictable, because ganon can get a few stray hits and you're at kill percent, but on the other hand, you don't really need to approach.

if you're losing to wiz kick/choke slam, learn their max distances and just hover in and out of that area. if your friend is super inclined towards using them, just sit there and he'll probably go for it. at that point, you dodge (in whichever way is applicable, most likely dd away-toward) and do what you want.

don't try to outspace ganon with sonic, probably won't happen and you'll likely just eat fairs/arty nairs in return. you can maybe do a decent job of just pressuring his shield, if you can get him into it, but i'm unfamiliar with sonic's shield pressure options, tbh. just focus on dding and staying just outside of his max range and you'll probably do much better.

 

[standardtoaster]

@ W Windstar120025 please edit your posts to add additional content instead of posting multiple times in a row within a matter of minutes. I have merged your posts for you

 

[Windstar120025]

Sadly CORY the best option for dodging Ganon has been Rolling towards him when he attempts as for the DD stalling trhat is what i do majority of the time but then when he does attempt to approach he wiz-kicks and i still end up getting caught up in it when i know i shouldn't. I have spent time and time again going over and attempting to learn his hit box for it but i seem to allways get hit by some sort of trailing hit box behind him.

 

[wiiztec]

Yes people this is in some way a Rant Post if it is not approved to be in this section pls move it, if people don't like or agree with the Opinions stated in this Post, go ahead and reply with your thoughts but pls be respectful this is just what I am Hoping for in Project M Due to what the Game IS EXPOSED TO BE ABOUT!

As we know the Project M game, brought together by the amazing PMBR has in itself become a Tournament holding game. There are many people that enjoy it and its melee like mechanics. However that is a point to which i feel needs talked about. As we know Project M is exposed to be LIKE melee not just as as close as we can Carbon Copy of Melee. With this said i question why the PMBR has Not taken approaches to avoid having things such as the Teir List fall to the same point as it was with Melee most Notable the Highest of the Teirs Fox and Falco. There really is no Point in arguing that Both Fox and Falco don't have an extreme presence within the Project M Competitive Play. True alot of Charactors are still being mixed into the High based competitive level but all i still see from Competitive battles when at their peek is a Majority of People challenging each other to a match of Who can play Fox/Falco better then the other. With such being true, would it not be best to try to avoid having the same monopolized teir list as Melee by Retiring the Stars of Melee, and bringing in new blood to the top tiers. Apparently not!. True there surely is a Higher qyuantity to diversity with Project M the Protection of these two characters are still a priority. Just look at Sonic 2.5, true sonic had finaly risen to the point where he actually had playing capabilities that matched what his base character design was capable of. But since the not even too over bearable move pool he had threatened the top Teirs the PMBR had him hacked to pieces, taking away not just the few things that made him good, but the recovery that made him slightly unpredictable.I don't know whether or not it was due to some respect for Melee but the revival of Marth and Shieks primary play style IS enough Melee Nostalgia for the Project M Meta Game.

So please Project M Back Room and others who read this Post, I am Just a simple person who believes steering this great game towards the same Teir Listing as melee might not be the best Idea. I would just love to see some of such be taken into mind.
Here are some simple ideas:

Though Sonic might not need every things he had from PM 2.5 back the Great Down-b Mind games he played were not to far out of his characters limits, and the Extreme nerving he received surely was not needed. Restoring just the Down-b Shenanigans he had would be a great and NEEDED plus for him. Though i have many people disagreeing with me, i have time after time proven to myself just how much his Mirror opposite Gannon can counter him. A i should note though Sonic has great ground covering speed his attacking speed is some times mediocre at best, notably when comparing the fact that majority of all his aerials with exception to his Neutral-air and Down-air are all slower and in situations weaker than not just Gannons Jab but Neutral-Air as well. And though Sonics speed on Ground is Great it just is not complimented well enough with his attacking speed and frames for him to shine as he should. To be fair the simple ability to dash cancel his Down-B and dash attack would be enough to give him the edge he needs.

Though this ,may be Hypocritical of me to say but the Idea of Fox/Falco being Top tiers is something I can accept but i just feel that Having the Two best characters from Melee shiny Just as Brightly in Project M for the exact same game style is kinda Hypocritical in itself. I just CHALLANGE the Project M Back Room and the Smash Community, to accept that they can be played differently and still be just as good. As we know they seem to be the two least tampered with characters of the Cast as well as the most dominating during play. So with such being true I simply Challenge PMBR to find alternate Movesets for them that can allow them to still be GREAT just Not the Exact same as Melee.

GANNON BANNED

 

[CORY]

D :

 

[Phaiyte]

This thread says it was posted today, but I feel like I've read every single post word for word already.

 

[Windstar120025]

lol
i wouldn't like that either