Project M Download [Demo v2.5b, 1/6/13]

[Project M]

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Welcome to Project M.
Demo 2.5 Released!
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Watch the Demo 2.5 Trailer here!
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News, Character profiles, Downloads and more:
http://projectm.smashmods.com

Please see second post for our detailed FAQ!


The installer is currently located at:
http://projectm.dantarion.com/pminstaller.exe (Mirror)​

Known Issues:

All physics and movement take effect 1 frame late
Special move physics as well as special fall physics are not 100% perfect for every character from Melee
Meteor Canceling does not have a fail window for Up B
A couple down throws use slightly modified knockback stats from Melee so they will induce tumble at 0 damage, as down throws tumble regardless of knockback in Melee.
There are still some instances where characters collide into one another after being hit from a attack. This should only occur when thrown but does pop up sometimes still for non-throws.
Wind Knockback pushes characters off of edges
Resets in general are still not quite perfect, as it is not possible to multihit reset currently, certain actions and stuns skip hitlag for the victim when they are being reset and thus become unSDIable. Stage Collision Detection downwards momentum bug makes it more difficult for some characters to DI up out of a reset.
If Snake's mine is placed in the exact middle of any stage and he pulls out a grenade, sometimes it will explode.
If Snake is in the air and his opponent is in the air as well, when he tries to sticky them with a C4 it is possible that he will perform the animation but the C4 will not stick. How you will notice this is that Snake will not say "There!" It's pretty much Snake "missing" the sticky. In Brawl what would happen is the C4 would just drop to the floor but because we made it so C4s can't fall off anyone, the C4 just... disappears and no SFX for successfully sticking the opponent is played.
When ledgesnapping during the apex of UpB, the first frame of Diddy's ledgegrab will have him placed at odd angles and a small distance away from the actual edge.
Stale Moves is still not quite perfect in that they do not stale until after the move ends.
Tethers do not grapple onto walls
Techrolls do not carry momentum from hitstun
Attacking a shield can push the attacker off edges (e.g. Marth Fsmashes a shielding opponent, the shield pushback pushes Marth off the ledge.)
You can hold A to continue a multihit jab like Fox's kicking.
Ledge grab ranges may appear longer than they should for some characters.
Wavedash out of shield does not work properly if shield is still being held when trying to airdodge (for shoulder buttons, you only need to release the button click to allow airdodging with the other trigger).
There are some Stage Collision Detection bugs, which are not yet fixed. The most notable being some additional downwards momentum when the character is sideways or upside down in the animation. The worst affected have been temporarily dealt with by using Brawl's SCD method for some of these actions and moves. Some of these include certain specials, jumps, tumble hitstun animations, and so on. For most of these actions, the character might just land sooner than intended.
C-stick can still affect jump directions. However, jump direction is determined before entering the air so it does not interfere with c-sticking an aerial as early as possible on a jump.
Footstools can sometimes trigger automatically when within range for the rest of a match
Wii Remote D-pad will run instead of walk from a single press
Some characters when they have someone grabbed will pummel with the C-stick instead of throwing.
C-stick up while crawling will still result in a down smash
Port priority in relation to grabs is still not fixed
Lucario's Super Aura Sphere still has some oddities on Green Hill Zone
In Training Mode, if you have a controller in any other port besides Port 1 and enter Training with that controller, you will be able to control when the CPU shields. (e.g Controller in Port 2, enter Training Mode, when you shield the CPU will shield also despite being set to Stand)
Edge canceling aerials with the C-stick can be done by just standing still. This is because of the C-stick counting as direction + A.
Super Spicy Curry can sometimes spazz out and generally cause oddities.
The Timer item has lots of physics oddities and can cause instant deaths.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: What does v2.5 change exactly? Any new gameplay fixes?
A: Several advancements have been made in the engine. One thing you should notice right off the bat is how much smoother the game feels in regards to your inputs. The combo game also flows more naturally, especially for characters like Falco. There's ledge-teching... and smaller things were also adjusted such as how grabs work (most importantly, the mashing to get out of grabs!)

Q: Why should I upgrade to v2.5?
A: Why? Because it's just better! 4 new characters, a new stage, balance adjustments across the whole roster of characters, new modes, refinements to gameplay... really everything was touched in v2.5 that is definitely worth downloading to try and see how much closer we are with things!

Q: Why the hell isn't there Samus when there is a Zero Suit Samus (ZSS)? This makes no sense!! RAGE!

A: We had originally decided that ZSS would not be included in Demo 2.5 because Samus was not ready. However, we managed to find a way to separate the two characters, and as a result, we agreed that ZSS was ready to the point of being playable for the public. Please be patient with us, as we only want the best possible product available to the public. Thank you for your interest!

Q: Link's Clawshot doesn't grab walls, it locks onto the edge! Why?
A: Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find a way to change them so that they no longer lock onto the edge and instead can be used to grapple walls. However, we have made it so tethers are capable of grabbing the ledge even if someone is already hanging on it. We have also made it so when Link or any other tether character tethers the ledge when a character is hanging on it that they perform the Melee tether hop.

Q: Why does wavedashing out of shield not work?
A: It works, it's just that it has to be done a really specific way because vBrawl reads shield input as the same across all three buttons that use it (Z, L, and R) they are not counted as different buttons in the game, making wavedashing out of shield not only different and difficult for some to do, but also making it difficult to fix. This is a coding limitation and not an intentional one. You can, however, light press one button and full press the other to perform a wavedash out of shield (which is something you could not do in the first demo).

Q: What is Stage Collision Detection?
A: Stage Collision Detection (SCD) is the more technical term used for landing detection. It is the key engine component that had been holding back demo 1 from feeling like Melee. In Brawl, characters land on their feet; basically every move in Demo 1 may have had the right frame data but they would land sooner and thus throw everything off by a few frames. In Melee, characters land at a dynamic location based on animation and model, meaning a lot of aerial based moves and animations can stay in the air longer and land later. We have fixed this in Demo 2 and is one of the primary reasons we are releasing this, so people can actually understand how much of a difference this makes to the game feeling like Melee.

However, there are still bugs with the coding part of it for certain actions and animations for characters. We have dealt with those temporarily by making them use Brawl's SCD instead. This means that whatever animation or action is set to Brawl's SCD is effectively going to land earlier than intended; hitstun animations will be landing earlier, making some things a little different to time, such as when to grab someone after a throw to continue a chaingrab like Marth's Up Throw. These issues will be fixed in due time but they were not capable to be fixed in time for Demo v2.5 and is largely why (besides over 6 or more characters not being finished) this is still a demo because we are still working on things like this.

Q: Why no code text file? I want to be able to add my own codes!
A: The main reason is a lot of our codes are still not done. Having outdated codes running wild in the public isn't very professional. When we actually have every code down to a T (meaning, no bugs, they aren't incomplete) then we will be more comfortable and open to releasing the text files. Until then, you will just have to deal with the default code set if you want to play Project M.

Q: How come x character's jump height is still feeling off?
A: Due to a bug with the SCD (Stage Collision Detection) codes, some animations get a slight additional downwards velocity while the character is positioned sideways or upside down. This results in a slight loss of height on the affected animations. This should not occur for very many characters, however.

Q: Why are there no Melee sound effects in the default package?
A: Our audience uses different methods to load their game up, and because there isn't a file patch code that replaces the .brsar, Gecko OS users are out of luck for the SFX. Additionally, the .brsar is another 100 MB for the download size, which we don't need to add onto the already extensive download size Project M is. If you want SFX, you may go download it separately for your own personal use.

Q: Why [insert common character oriented complaint here] isn't Melee? This game is trash!
A: Realize that we're not trying to be a 1:1 carbon copy of Melee for characters. In the gameplay department, yes, we are trying our hardest to copy it. But for characters? We're allowed to be as creative as we can as long as the changes made work within the Melee environment (which again, is going to hopefully be 1:1 in the end). Melee veterans will remain true to their core designs from Melee while vBrawl characters can deviate a little bit. Also realize that the gameplay is still not done; so claiming a gameplay aspect is not Melee when this is just a demo is silly. Additionally, while it's important to view things in relation to Melee, simply because something wasn't IN Melee does not mean that it cannot fit well into a Melee environment. Give things a chance please.

Q: Why do techrolls feel so sticky?
A: They do not carry any momentum at all from hitstun. Techstands, on the other hand, do carry momentum. We were unable to fix techrolls for this demo.

Q: Why do I fall off the platform when I'm near the ledge and my opponent is shielding when I attack him?
A: In vBrawl, when you attack a shield and you're near a ledge you get pushed back and off the ledge, canceling the attack. In Melee, there was push back but the character attacking did not fall off the platform/ledge. We have not been able to fix this due to the way edgeslips from knockback work.

Q: Why isn't x character in this demo despite being shown on streams as playable?
A: While certain characters look playable on streams, please realize that playability isn't what determines who shows up in the demo. It's largely dependent on if the character seems well received from the players testing him/her and if they are not going through any experimental changes or otherwise are seeing huge revamps; thus are not ready for the public to play. If the backroom is still throwing out ideas and testing things out on a character, the character definitely is not ready.

Q: Why are recoveries so good in this game for some characters?
A: Recoveries are things we are still working on as we do realize people have some distaste for some of the newer characters' recoveries, likely due to how long it makes them live. But whether you like the direction or not, recoveries help balance a character out, be it positive or negative (meaning, not everyone should have a bad recovery). This is also a new game though so you also have to approach edgeguarding differently, so try to find new ways to deal with new characters that are trying to come back to the stage. Additionally, a recovery that may seem good at first likely has ways around it to edgeguard. Keep in mind that the Melee community has been edgeguarding Melee characters for 10 years, but are only just now giving a shot at edgeguarding Project M characters. Get some more experience in edgeguarding a character before you rush to the conclusion that a character's recovery is simply too good.

Q: Marth grabbed the ledge backwards from really far away. What's up with that?
A: Unfortunately, we cannot edit reverse grab boxes yet. Some characters have pretty big reverse grab boxes while others do not. Do note that these are certainly not as big as they were in Demo 1.

Q: Meteor Canceling feels a bit different from Melee. What's up?
A: We had some coding limitations in adding in some of the difficulties of Meter Canceling. For example, you can still mash Up-B and get a Meteor Cancel while if you were to do so in Melee it would fail if you did it too early. Because of this, we felt that Meteor Cancels would be too strong until we were able to code this aspect, so we moved back the Meteor Canceling window by a bit to mitigate it. Bear with us as we make some compromises when we can't code something the way we want; we hope to revisit this issue at a later time when we have more coding knowledge.

Q: Did you guys remove reverse edge grabbing completely in Demo v2.1?
A: No. You can now only grab backwards during the transition to your special fall. This includes any special move that goes into special fall in the air. Typically, for Up Bs this is at the apex or, in other words, at the very end of the move's completion. It makes for more precise recovering.

Q: Are reverse edge grabs shorter? Or is it just me?
A: They are not. That is still something we didn't get around to doing, as it would require a lot of work we simply didn't have the time. They may seem shorter simply because of the new mechanics.

Q: Why are footstools on a different button? Please change it back to how it was in vBrawl!
A: They interfere too much with both the player's actions and the match as a whole. From completely accidental KOs to jumping really high unintentionally, they detract too much from the actual match to be on the same button as jump. So, please just set the taunt button to one of the jump buttons you do not use. The way the input was set, you'd have more accidental footstools than intentional ones, meaning it's a bad way of implementing the mechanic. In the latest version, any taunt button activates a footstool!

Q: Ugh! Why haven't you guys removed grab armor!?
A: In Melee, if you grab an opponent and on the same frame are hit by a hitbox, you take no damage and they get grabbed. In Project M, what happens is, when a attack connects at the same time a grab does the damage is applied first, but then the grab takes priority over the attack's knockback. In short, the mechanic isn't really "armor" and moreso a messed up order in how the game's priority is. We have been unable to address this issue in coding priority, but we hope to in the future.

Q: Everything feels really clunky! Why doesn't this feel smooth?
A: The game is set to default 0 frames of buffer. If you have been playing vBrawl for a very long time this would be why it would feel off to you. Turn on Input Assistance in the options menu and play around with that until you can get used to the default timing of the game.

Q: Why does [insert single player mode related issue here] freeze?
A: We do not check/test for freezes that may occur while playing single player at this point in the game's development. If you are having those problems, please report it to us and we will try to have it fixed for the full game release. Otherwise, for the time being just try to avoid those issues and enjoy the demo!

Q: Did you guys fix the 1 frame physics delay?
A: No, we did not. The reason why the game feels much better though is because input lag no longer exists. See the next question to find out more.

Q: What!? You're telling me Super Smash Bros. Brawl had default input lag!? You're crazy! I thought only HD TVs made the game have laggy input recognition!
A: Yes. Unfortunately, vBrawl had input lag from the get-go. To be perfectly clear, it wasn't even a set amount of input lag. It would vary randomly anywhere between 0-2 frames of input lag. If you wish to see visual proof of this, check out this video.

Q: Is Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash still possible? I'm having a hard time performing it with Snake!
A: Yes, it's still possible, just not as useful for some characters due to their friction having changed or the window for it being reduced below the timing for the largest boost as it is based on jump startup time. Not all characters get the boost.

Q: How come x character's recovery from Melee doesn't work the same here?
A: Either because we changed it to be better (Ness' PKT2 for example), stuck with the Brawl version because the character needed a slight buff in recovery, or because we haven't had the time to find and port all the values necessary to match them to Melee (see: Ganondorf Up B and Falco Up B, where there are some unknowns, such as finding where Falco's values for each angle are in Brawl's coding). Unfortunately, some characters will have this issue until we're able to address it. Just keep in mind that for the most part it is not intentional.

Q: How come x move from Melee for x character is so good when he/she was already good?
A: This could be for a number reasons, but the main one would be because we have not been able to port it completely over, thus having some remnants of vBrawl within the move. An example of this would be Sheik's chain, it's unintentionally better in Project M simply because of the way it functions differently from Melee despite its hitbox stats and everything about it (minus animations) ported over. Again, moves like that aren't intended to be better so if you come across any other moves that appear that way please be aware we are still working on this game even with the release of this demo so some moves may not be perfect.

Q: I see Lucario has an A+B input. Can we expect other characters to get new A+B moves?
A: Probably not. This method of executing an alternative move is exclusive to Lucario's Super System. Fans watching earlier 2.5 streams may have noticed an A+B input on Wario in an experimental build but this has since been removed. Adding A+B alt moves for the rest of the cast is unlikely to happen due to the prohibitive amount of work involved as well as the questionable need for shoe-horning in new moves to a working cast.

We're sorry to those who got hyped about the possibility of new moves because of what you saw with Wario! But that's why we keep reiterating "everything is subject to change" when we stream or show anything prior to release!

Q: Why aren't you taking my suggestions to heart?
A: We read this thread everyday, not everyone in the backroom may post but we are reading. We look at every suggestion and talk about it amongst ourselves, but ultimately not every idea is taken, much less tried out. It helps to have played Demo v2.5, so giving constructive feedback after playing that helps. If your feedback is not constructive, you will be ignored.

Constructive feedback: "I'm not sure if x move really helps this character out. Can you guys maybe try increasing x stat or change this move to be something else? It doesn't really help in its intended situations, unfortunately."

Non-constructive feedback: "I hate the way you designed x character, change him completely, I hate him!"

Basically, try to critically explain how something isn't working and then either suggest something that will make it work better (detailed explanation) or suggest something new and why the "new" thing you're suggesting would work better.

Q: Will there be any future updates to Demo v2.5?
A: At the moment, we don't have any more plans to update Demo v2.5. Unless there's some more game breaking bugs (any freezing bugs) we will not be putting out anything else for some time. And don't forget to keep on supporting us as you have been for the past 3 years!

 

[Isatis]

Actually, on second thought, gonna lock this.

short version: If you want to discuss anything, don't be afraid to make a new topic! Anything from mechanics, gameplay, strategy/techs, frame data, whatever!