Practising drill>shine on shield?

[MrWeavile]

I find myself getting grabbed out of the drill before I get a chance to shine during matches. Since 20XX only seems to use the first possible frame before grabbing, I can't find a way to practise it on shield there. Is there a way I could practise it on shield without a partner?

 

[Rlagkrud]

use infinite shield + cpu hold shield.
if you want to make sure you're airtight, make cpu nair/grab out of shield.
if you're doing it perfectly, cpu should never have a chance to hit you, or it'll get hit by you attempting to

 

[MrWeavile]

use infinite shield + cpu hold shield.
if you want to make sure you're airtight, make cpu nair/grab out of shield.
if you're doing it perfectly, cpu should never have a chance to hit you, or it'll get hit by you attempting to

Won't the cpu try to grab after the first hit of drill? That's what's been happening and is why I can't practise on 20XX.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Won't the cpu try to grab after the first hit of drill? That's what's been happening and is why I can't practise on 20XX.

You might not be fast falling it well enough, try different ways, angles and timings.

 

[MrWeavile]

You might not be fast falling it well enough, try different ways, angles and timings.

Will the CPU hold shield until you touch the floor if done correctly then?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Will the CPU hold shield until you touch the floor if done correctly then?

Whatever they try should be canceled by your actions (if done correctly).

 

[tauKhan]

Drill is bad on shield, it's -6 in the best case scenario that you land immediately after a hit. There's also a new hitbox every 3 frames, so if you do a multihit drill on a shield, it's probably going to be -7 on the average, and that can be grabbed before you can shine.

Unstaled drill is a stunlock between the hits, so you should be able to practice it on 20xx though. I practice shining asap after drill on level1 cpu, since the timing is same on shield and hit.

if you want to make sure you're airtight, make cpu nair/grab out of shield.
if you're doing it perfectly, cpu should never have a chance to hit you, or it'll get hit by you attempting to

Not true, a plethora of OoS options beat/escape drill shine.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Remember, he is saying if done perfectly, and the fastest grabs (and most grabs, at that) are still frame 7. Remember, he's limiting it to nairs and grabs.

If you want to not get shield grabbed, land behind the opponent.

Also, if the opponent's grab just doesn't put their hurtbox in shine's range (possibly via shield DI to assist spacing) you simply don't beat it with shine.

But yeah, drill is generally bad on shield, the good part is that it beats CC, has set knockback to combo into certain things, and the multiple hitboxes make it so doing it "early" doesn't put you at a greater frame disadvantage.

Use infinite shield + shield grab with a character that has a good shield grab and try to avoid getting grabbed.

 

[tauKhan]

Use infinite shield + shield grab with a character that has a good shield grab and try to avoid getting grabbed.

I don't like that, since it doesn't give reliable feedback on whether you inputted your shine too early. When doing a multihit drill, I don't think it's feasible for you to control on landing just after a hitbox. Thus around 2/3 of the time you get grabbed even if your shine timing was perfect.

 

[herbmaster%]

how does

Drill is bad on shield, it's -6 in the best case scenario that you land immediately after a hit. There's also a new hitbox every 3 frames, so if you do a multihit drill on a shield, it's probably going to be -7 on the average, and that can be grabbed before you can shine.

Unstaled drill is a stunlock between the hits, so you should be able to practice it on 20xx though. I practice shining asap after drill on level1 cpu, since the timing is same on shield and hit.



Not true, a plethora of OoS options beat/escape drill shine.

the landing lag of the dair must be 7 frames then (?) i know not how frame positivity/negativity works. . .

 

[Stride]

how does

the landing lag of the dair must be 7 frames then (?) i know not how frame positivity/negativity works. . .

Frame advantage is just the difference between how fast your opponent can act and how fast you can act after being hit/hitting with a move. "Drill is -7 on shield" means that your opponent is out of shieldstun 7 frames before you are out of the drill animation/landing lag.

Drill's landing lag is 9 frames (when L-cancelled), and it does 3 frames of shieldstun per hit (a hitbox is out for 2 frames, followed by a 1 frame period with no hitbox, followed by the next hitbox). Hence, if you land immediately after a hit, your frame advantage is -6 ("3 frames stun" - "9 frames lag"). If you land later (which will usually be the case), then you will have less frame advantage

 

[herbmaster%]

does the fox frame data compilation detail the amount of hitstun/shieldstun all of his moves dish out? i don't think it does but i could be wrong, haven't read the entire tread.