Practicing Sheik without Needles (advice) ?

[Gいたん]

Ive been playing Sheik for about a year and a half now and as my playstyle has evolved or whatever i've gotten pretty decent at using needles, so much to the point to where needles became the definitive part of my game
I'll be playing and i always find myself doing charging air needle mixups , diagonal needle camping on platforms and just throwing them singularly in neutral to be bothersome, things like that
I catch that putting myself in these situations to needle can kind of be bad if my opponent has the read on how i use them, and without needle > grab and needle > fair and things like that and just getting punished everytime i go to do my needle thing is getting pretty irritating. I usually beat every single character with the style I've developed with my needles but Fox. He's more capable at dealing with my fairs and needles in general a ton better. Everyone in the area I was better than is getting good enough to beat it so i want to get good enough to beat them to having my number

So my question pretty much is, is it worth it to practice Sheik without using needles? Tope is in my area right now and i've been watching his Sheik play whenever shes brought out, and he does so godlike without even rarely needing to use needles, so i was wondering if it would be a good idea to practice her without using needles except for say guaranteed edge guarding setups with them? I feel like if i force myself to do that for a long enough time i'll get more acquainted with her physical options in neutral and get better at finding ways to get grabs and openings for the punish rather than needling, and that it would just improve my neutral overall.

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

I think that really depends on the matchup. If someone is trying to rush you down with a crazy fast character like fox or falcon and you want to slow it down or just limit their options then needles are a good idea, but otherwise it's really about your playstlye. In my experience needle camping and needles in general make players angry and causes them to play worse, so if you know that your opponent is prone to letting his emotions get the best of him then needles would be a fantastic idea. If you practice without needles it will help you learn to put better pressure on your opponent, but if you don't play a very aggressive style, and most sheiks I know don't, then you should definitely keep incorporating needles.

 

[Gいたん]

I think that really depends on the matchup. If someone is trying to rush you down with a crazy fast character like fox or falcon and you want to slow it down or just limit their options then needles are a good idea, but otherwise it's really about your playstlye. In my experience needle camping and needles in general make players angry and causes them to play worse, so if you know that your opponent is prone to letting his emotions get the best of him then needles would be a fantastic idea. If you practice without needles it will help you learn to put better pressure on your opponent, but if you don't play a very aggressive style, and most sheiks I know don't, then you should definitely keep incorporating needles.

I play a mix of both. Depends on my percentage, if I'm high and in the lead I just camp and use needles and capitalize off of mistakes but if I'm behind I go really fkin ham and get aggressive
And the players I struggle against in my area have gotten past needles or even melee in general bothering their emotions during playing so that really isn't a reason for me to use them

 

[Scroll]

You should not have to use needles to whiff punish. You could work on whiff punishing instead of approaching.
It sounds to me like you enjoy approaching in neutral with needles. While this is fun and can work well, Sheik's strength lies in the way she can avoid stuff and rush in and abuse their lag.
I am not sure if this is the kind of answer you are looking for, but I bet anyone can improve on their spacing game, so that is what I am going to recommend. Get the tightest spacing you can using Fox Trot, DD, WD and Pivots and capitalize off of your punishes, instead of jumping at them with needles.

Btw. how does needle fair work? SH Needle storm/ late single -> Rising Fair? I gotto try that sometimes, although grabbing should almost always be better.

 

[Gいたん]

You should not have to use needles to whiff punish. You could work on whiff punishing instead of approaching.
It sounds to me like you enjoy approaching in neutral with needles. While this is fun and can work well, Sheik's strength lies in the way she can avoid stuff and rush in and abuse their lag.
I am not sure if this is the kind of answer you are looking for, but I bet anyone can improve on their spacing game, so that is what I am going to recommend. Get the tightest spacing you can using Fox Trot, DD, WD and Pivots and capitalize off of your punishes, instead of jumping at them with needles.

Btw. how does needle fair work? SH Needle storm/ late single -> Rising Fair? I gotto try that sometimes, although grabbing should almost always be better.

I'm don't approach with needles, or use them to whiff punish. Usually I punish Whiffs with grabs into tech chases into under platform up airs into fairs and **** like that . Most of the time I'm able to capitalize a punish to about 50-70 , 90 if my tech reads and chasing is on point. I'm not really as as bad as I make myself sound in saying all of that and my punish game is pretty solid I think when I'm consistent, I'm gonna add a video because it may help people see what I mean
Needle fair as in short hop needle storm on the platform and once you land the hit and land on platform run off and fast fall fair

 

[Scroll]

Oh gotcha. I do that needle Fair all the time too. It's really good!
And I don't think you're bad at all. Sorry if my post made it sound that way :*(
To go back and answer your question, then I'd say that you should not practice without using needles. Rather try other approaches to the same situations and use them as mixups.
For example when you run (camp) to platforms. Try and cancel your needles and put up your light shield up there instead. If they jump at you with an aerial you get pushed off and you can emediatly retaliate with an aerial of your own. If they go below and wait you can shield drop Fair them.
That's just one example.

I think the answer you're looking for is to find a bunch of mixups for the "needle situations", but deffinatly keep your needle game man.
I remember when I was a beginner I found myself rolling too much. So for a longer period I opted never to roll to get rid of that habbit. Now when I do rolls on purpose I know they are safe and usefull.
Maybe that could work for you too. Simply try and stay away from needles (except maybe edge guarding, like you said). Then come back later an reincorporate them.
Maybe I am stating the obvious. In any case I hope that's helpful.
And I'd love to see your sheik in action so def post a vid and we can talk specifics =)

 

[Gいたん]

Oh gotcha. I do that needle Fair all the time too. It's really good!
And I don't think you're bad at all. Sorry if my post made it sound that way :*(
To go back and answer your question, then I'd say that you should not practice without using needles. Rather try other approaches to the same situations and use them as mixups.
For example when you run (camp) to platforms. Try and cancel your needles and put up your light shield up there instead. If they jump at you with an aerial you get pushed off and you can emediatly retaliate with an aerial of your own. If they go below and wait you can shield drop Fair them.
That's just one example.

I think the answer you're looking for is to find a bunch of mixups for the "needle situations", but deffinatly keep your needle game man.
I remember when I was a beginner I found myself rolling too much. So for a longer period I opted never to roll to get rid of that habbit. Now when I do rolls on purpose I know they are safe and usefull.
Maybe that could work for you too. Simply try and stay away from needles (except maybe edge guarding, like you said). Then come back later an reincorporate them.
Maybe I am stating the obvious. In any case I hope that's helpful.
And I'd love to see your sheik in action so def post a vid and we can talk specifics =)

Hell yeah man, just like that some advice i was looking for. And yeah about the bad thing I knew that wasnt what you were implying, i just thought "man, needle fair sounds literally garbage in any other way besides what i was thinking" so i was hoping i didnt come off as super scrub
The way you put it into perspective was really good, thanks for the light shielding tips too. I'll definitely get on that.
I knew i needed mixups for the needle situations, but I figured that practicing sheik without using needles in friendlies would sort of FORCE me to think of another option to use instead, you know what i mean? Not good at wording questions I have about playing sometimes so i hope i wasnt too vague, i like your advice even if it was :x