Practicing D-throw Tech chasing

[ZaloMonkada]

I've been trying to improve on my d-throw tech chases as sheik, but I have no idea how to drill this without another human being with me. I want to be able to react to no tech (with jab reset), tech in place and tech rolls, but its hard to learn how to do this in game. I want to be able to drill this with computer players, but they always no tech. Any suggestions for ways to drill this without another person?

 

[Alulim]

No. Play real people.

 

[ZaloMonkada]

That's like saying practice l-canceling and learning how to wave-dash exclusively by playing other people. Sometimes you can get better by sitting down by yourself and focusing on something very specific. If you want to be an ass hat, go somewhere else.

 

[Alulim]

Dude tech chasing is dependent on how your opponent acts on his or her movements (whether they choose to not tech, stand tech or roll tech). It's not solely decisive on your own inputs - You won't learn about habits or anything of the sort if you think that there's a solution to this besides playing against REAL people.

If you think you'll be able to somehow 'master' tech chasing WITHOUT playing REAL people and hit it consistently in tournaments, then you're dead wrong. People get good at this game by playing it a ton with other good players. It's like insisting for a solution to Falcon's standard limited approach which primarily consists of nair/dair and grab. No, he doesn't have a damn shine - There is no miracle solution to this. The only way Falcons get better in neutral is by working with the TOOLS THAT THEY HAVE. The same concept applies if you're attempting to ridicule the game itself by thinking you can work on one of the biggest portions of the game WITHOUT practicing it in REAL TIME, VERSUS REAL PEOPLE.

 

[ZaloMonkada]

You're completely wrong. Sheik d-throw tech chase is something you can react to solely on visual cues. The best sheik players don't tech chase on reads, they do it on reaction and the best way to make your reaction time significantly better is to drill that situation over and over. Sure you can do it against players, but you can practice it much more efficiently if you have an AI that techs randomly with random DI.

If I have an AI that DI's randomly and techs / not techs randomly, you can learn how to tech chase perfectly. Its that simple. It's the same as marth chain grabbing vs spacies, you have to practice it by yourself to get it perfect (that's what m2k did, don't tell me he didn't practice that by himself).

All I'm asking for is a good way to practice this interaction without another human, and you're acting like a toddler. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

 

[d z]

Working on a dolphin mod that will randomly di and tech Sheiks down throw which should help. Come back to me in 2 weeks.

 

[ZaloMonkada]

You are based god. Thanks!

 

[Fishaman P]

Dolphin mod? Modding the emulator itself certainly won't help here. Unless you mean a Gecko code.
On the other hand, restoring Project M Sheik's D-throw to NTSC Melee and modifying the AI should do the trick.

 

[d z]

Im modifying Dolphin to broadcast and receive gcpad inputs. This allows you to write dolphin bots that respond to inputs from one controller with inputs sent to another controller. Thus the script sees z or r+a followed by down c stick or down joy stick and then sends random di/random techs back to dolphin. Its actually pretty simple, I have accomplished everything individually I'm just super busy with school currently so sticking it all together is taking some time.

 

[Exasm]

Im modifying Dolphin to broadcast and receive gcpad inputs. This allows you to write dolphin bots that respond to inputs from one controller with inputs sent to another controller. Thus the script sees z or r+a followed by down c stick or down joy stick and then sends random di/random techs back to dolphin. Its actually pretty simple, I have accomplished everything individually I'm just super busy with school currently so sticking it all together is taking some time.

Could you share your code and/or dolphin build?

 

[BrTarolg]

http://imgur.com/a/l3Js8

Learn the animations

I actually learned by playing online and then because you got 3-4 frames less to react it means IRL it was easier lol

 

[d z]

Could you share your code and/or dolphin build?

http://smashboards.com/threads/dolphin-melee-training-mod.353982/ =)

 

[EddyBearr]

The closest thing you can get to practicing tech chasing is to go in training mode and set the computer to "evade"; they'll almost always get the tech.

Unfortunately, it doesn't translate too well, at all, into your actual game. Entirely unlike practicing L-cancelling or Wavedashing, tech chase is entirely about dealing with your opponent.

 

[Ministry]

maybe this is some help.

i wrote it a while ago. But i think the information is all still acurate.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ministry-guide-to-tech-chasing-spacies.302446/

 

[Fishaman P]

That guide is quite helpful. I didn't know that the screen movement tech-chase worked on humans as well as CPUs :O

 

[hectohertz]

use the new 20xx training pack. true tech-chase practice

 

[Red Rice]

You're completely wrong. Sheik d-throw tech chase is something you can react to solely on visual cues. The best sheik players don't tech chase on reads, they do it on reaction and the best way to make your reaction time significantly better is to drill that situation over and over. .

What hectohertz said, the 20xx hack pack has random DI and tech to practice tech chasing with.

But also, the best sheik players tech chase based off of reads and reactions. When you get a read on your opponent, you can tech chase them fairly easily. And the best players can read their opponent pretty well and is one of the reasons they are considered top players. I'm not just talking about one read in a tech chase, I'm talking like, when you scare someone so that they shield a lot and then when you grab, they'll always tech into the stage. But then after 2-3 tech ins, they'll probably start teching in place to try and mix it up, etc.. Good players will not only read and react but can almost manipulate how you tech

 

[ZaloMonkada]

What hectohertz said, the 20xx hack pack has random DI and tech to practice tech chasing with.

But also, the best sheik players tech chase based off of reads and reactions. When you get a read on your opponent, you can tech chase them fairly easily. And the best players can read their opponent pretty well and is one of the reasons they are considered top players. I'm not just talking about one read in a tech chase, I'm talking like, when you scare someone so that they shield a lot and then when you grab, they'll always tech into the stage. But then after 2-3 tech ins, they'll probably start teching in place to try and mix it up, etc.. Good players will not only read and react but can almost manipulate how you tech

Ya you're right, reads are super important. I've also realized since that its ****ing hard to tech chase spacies 100% perfectly on reaction. Falcon is a different matter, but spacies might take too much speed to be able to do consistantly.

 

[Red Rice]

Ya you're right, reads are super important. I've also realized since that its ****ing hard to tech chase spacies 100% perfectly on reaction. Falcon is a different matter, but spacies might take too much speed to be able to do consistantly.

Yeah definitely. When I play sheik in friendlies (I main spacies), I thought "wtf tech chasing is fecking impossible."

But then someone told me that I spaz out too much when I was trying to tech chase. Something that REALLY helped me was after the dthrow, just stand there first. No dash dancing and no hard reads. If he techs in place, good, you didn't move so that's an easy regrab. If he tech rolls, you just have to react to it by either dash grabbing or dash attacking. Maybe even boost grabbing will help your chances but I don't have the sheik experience to really suggest it.

If he doesn't tech, what I do is walk forward so that sheik's back is facing the opponent and then turn around if you have the time. If they roll either way, you can dash grab/attack easily on reaction. The only thing that is hard to punish is the get up attack. If your back is facing toward him while he get up attacks, idk what Sheik's best option is, but off the top of my head I would do upsmash OoS at percentages higher than 20ish. And if you're facing him with shield, you can grab again or upsmash OoS still.

 

[ZaloMonkada]

Imo its easier to either jab reset or down smash reactively on no tech. The visual cue is easy to react to once you get the hang of it (giant green explosion). Then you don't have to worry about get up or get up attack or rolls from their prone position. I 100% agree about not spazzing out though. I've been doing that for a while and one of my friends tells me I should dash dance while he's in the air, and I'm like nope.

I can tech chase falcon 100% of the time on good days, but spacies are another matter. Their tech in place animation is too similar to their tech roles for me atm so I don't react fast enough to that visual cue and keep getting shined I still have to use reads for them, but so does m2k so I'm not sweating it

 

[Red Rice]

Yeah, I like to opt for a jab reset as well. But I suggest that if you get a jab reset (and hope they don't buffer the roll), that you should go for an up smash.

It definitely starts your combos and leads to kills. Unless your opponent is already at high percents. Up to you

 

[hectohertz]

just practice till you can do the magus frame trap all on reaction

im going to be practicing it from now until i can do it perfectly.

k brb

 

[Red Rice]

just practice till you can do the magus frame trap all on reaction

im going to be practicing it from now until i can do it perfectly.

k brb

Magus frame trap? I might know it but didn't know it had a name

 

[hectohertz]

Magus frame trap? I might know it but didn't know it had a name

its just punishing everything on reaction, named after a magus post a while ago about how to screw over falcon.

its the normal tech chase trap, but against missed techs you:
- shield grab the get up attack
- boost grab the ground rolls

totally inescapable if you can do it right

 

[BrTarolg]

how do you go about telling the difference between a getup attack and a getup non-attack?

 

[hectohertz]

how do you go about telling the difference between a getup attack and a getup non-attack?

I just shield grab them both. i'm not entirely sure how i distinguish, but i dont think its *too* hard

 

[hectohertz]

I just shield grab them both. i'm not entirely sure how i distinguish, but i dont think its *too* hard

@ B BrTarolg
you actually can use a clever option select to deal with them. shield when you see them get up, then start mashing A ~17 frames later. if they neutral stand, youll shield grab, if they GUA youll be in shield stun and grab afterwards

 

[Drephen]

only losers use tech chasing