Power Shielding Problem

[skellitorman]

I don't think I have seen this discussed anywhere and I would like to know what the thought behind the current system is and what people think about it.

Currently there are two types of power shielding in this game. One that reflects projectiles and the other that grants the ability to instant shield drop which I am going to call perfect shielding.

Power shielding does not have the ability to instant shield drop yet has less leniency. Because it does not allow the character to instant shield drop, the player can be put at a disadvantage for power shielding, where they could have not been had they performed a perfect shield.

Consider this situation:

A projectile is thrown at the opponent in a way that allows them to avoid the projectile when power shielded. The opponent would then want to nullify the projectile by perfect shielding and instant shield drop to have access to the necessary tools to deal with the situation optimally. But because the opponent did a frame perfect power shield he does not get the advantage of the perfect shield and thus is lagged for 14 frames when shield dropping.

Because of the uncertainty of getting a power shield over a perfect shield when attempting to power shield a projectile or vice versa it is safest to just not drop a shield when power shielding. However this also makes perfect shielding a bit more problematic since if you need the projectile to be reflected and it wasnt (but was perfect shielded) then you also won't get the advantage of instant shield dropping (due to not reacting in time).



Given that, should power shielding also have the ability to instant shield drop?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Wavedash out of shield->problem solved
This isn't ****ing sm4sh, you should pretty much never drop your shield

 

[skellitorman]

Wavedash out of shield->problem solved
This isn't ****ing sm4sh, you should pretty much never drop your shield

Just in case it was unclear, what I mean by instant shield dropping is instantly recovering from the shield drop. As in the moment the shield is dropped the character doesn't get penalized for 14 frames. The character can act immediately after the block stun is finished with any option including tilts and smash attacks. You always want to shield drop after perfect shielding when you are granted frame advantage and can utilize it better than the normal OoS options.

Wavedashing out of shield doesn't solve the problem, since you would still suffer the 14 frame penalty given that you perform a just frame wavedash and you have a 4 frame jump startup. Characters that have slower startups will recover even slower than normally dropping the shield. This means that you would not be taking full advantage of the perfect shield's attributes.

The perfect shielding allows you to nullify the 14 frame penalty which allows you to possibly counter (with jabs or tilts or smash attacks) the opponent for throwing the projectile instead of neutralizing it and possibly still being put into a disadvantage. Sometimes when attempting to perfect shield a projectile you get the power shield instead or vice versa. Unfortunately the power shield suffers the normal frame penalty unlike perfect shielding.

Please tell me if this is more clear. If not, then please tell me what I can explain better. If no one is understanding my explanation then this thread really loses it's purpose.

 

[Foo]

@ DrinkingFood It's not really that you have to shield drop after powershielding, that's not the point. The point is you are being punished for powershielding a projectile by having limited options. Sure, you could and should wavedash oos, but that's still not as good as being able to just instantly drop shield.

So, the question is, could powershielding (to reflect) use a buff? I didn't reply at first because I'm honestly not sure. I haven't really dealt with powershielding much.

BTW, I find it easier to call the reflect one powershielding, and the other one perfect shielding.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Well my point was that you should never attempt to drop your shield perfectshielding a projectile because it's so unreliable. It's a 2 frame window and it's not even the FIRST two frames, it's 3-4, so missing it by too late risks full shield stun (whereas missing ps reflect by too late only risks a regular perfectshield). You should always be wavedashing OoS or acting out of shield directly than risk getting the powershield reflect by shielding too late and dropping your shield into a laggy animation. Now, if your arguement is that powershielding needs a buff or a redesign to actually make sense in the contest of lagless animation for dropping shield after a perfect shield, then I agree, but that's not going to happen, because tradition mostly takes priority of design sense in PM. I was offering neither a design solution nor suggesting that he could avoid lag by doing that, rather I was suggesting you try to avoid the inconsistency altogether so you never have the risk of trying to act during the laggy dropped shield animation when you thought you'd get a lagless perfect shield.

 

[skellitorman]

Well my point was that you should never attempt to drop your shield perfectshielding a projectile because it's so unreliable. It's a 2 frame window and it's not even the FIRST two frames, it's 3-4, so missing it by too late risks full shield stun (whereas missing ps reflect by too late only risks a regular perfectshield). You should always be wavedashing OoS or acting out of shield directly than risk getting the powershield reflect by shielding too late and dropping your shield into a laggy animation.

I was offering neither a design solution nor suggesting that he could avoid lag by doing that, rather I was suggesting you try to avoid the inconsistency altogether so you never have the risk of trying to act during the laggy dropped shield animation when you thought you'd get a lagless perfect shield.

I don’t think people who normally power shield would come to the conclusion that you can’t use OoS options for either power shielding or perfect shielding. Hence it should be obvious that OoS options avoid the inconsistency.

Edit: I would like to add that although OoS can be used in both situations, power shielding nullifies blockstun unlike perfect shielding so it does change the timing of OoS options.

You said “Wavedash out of shield->problem solved.” This is why I was asking what was unclear, since I thought it was clear that the “problem” that I was talking about was in design.

Now, if your arguement is that powershielding needs a buff or a redesign to actually make sense in the contest of lagless animation for dropping shield after a perfect shield, then I agree, but that's not going to happen, because tradition mostly takes priority of design sense in PM.

The purpose of the thread is this. I gave reasons as to why it doesn’t make sense currently for those who may not know, and was asking if people think it should be changed in this particular way so that it does make sense.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

This only applies to projectiles, then?
Might as well ask now: I've seen conflicting info regarding perfectshielding. Does it have any affect on shieldstun/hitlag or are the only perks reduced pushback/instant shield drop?

 

[skellitorman]

This only applies to projectiles, then?
Might as well ask now: I've seen conflicting info regarding perfectshielding. Does it have any affect on shieldstun/hitlag or are the only perks reduced pushback/instant shield drop?

Yes, this thread only applies to projectiles.

But to answer your second question:

The only perks to perfect shielding are the changes in pushback, and the instant shield drop (which also removes the added frames of putting up the shield which only affect shield dropping).

Normal shielding requires a certain number of frames before the shield is allowed to drop unlike perfect shielding. So if you block within the frames that the shield is not fully up, but after the powershield window, then the rest of the startup will be added after blockstun before the shield is allowed to drop. This does not affect the ability to perform OoS options however.

Power shielding on the other hand will allow instant OoS options and completely nullify block stun, but requires 6 additional frames (if it was a frame perfect power shield) before shield dropping and then suffers an additional 14 frame penalty. Basically power shielding acts like you just put your shield up and no hitbox touched you. So you can do any immediate OoS option or shield drop normally.

I hope this helps.