DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,302
To set some foundations for those of you who are unaware, if a player has grabbed snake (or any other character for that matter) and a hitbox connects with both players simultaneously, both players will take damage, but the player with the lower port receives knockback while the player with the higher port will go into grab break animation (barring a few exceptions this grab break animation is going to be a grounded grab break of approx 30 frames). If I'm mistaken on this interpretation, please feel free to correct me. However, that's how it occurs to my understanding.
That being said, I'm going to go through the combinations of scenarios involving grabbing snake with grenades with either Popo or Nana at various percents and the ramifications of each situation towards practical play.
First, let's assume the traditional practice of the IC player with higher port and the snake player with lower port:
1. Popo grabs the snake so Nana is outside of grab state. Snake is at low percents.:
- If Nana is at lower percents, this is a neutral to advantageous situation. Both Snake and Nana receive little knockback, while Popo goes into ground break animation. The snake is now above the ice climbers, however hitstun is going to be minimal. It might be short enough that a snake could Bair and fast fall prior to IASA on ground break, or at least allow him to stuff an obvious IC uair. Assuming there is enough hitstun to allow for Uairs, Snake is going to take at least an Uair followup. However, it's higher risk lower reward for the most part because the IC is going to be semi-separated from Nana due to some nade knockback.
- If Nana is at higher percents, this is a neutral to disadvantaged situation. The grenade will have enough knockback where the ICs are now separated. The snake won't have as much knock back where unless the Sopo is able to string him, the Snake now has ICs apart with some level of stage control.
2. Popo Grabs the snake so Nana is outside of grab state. Snake is at high percents:
- If Nana is at low percents, this is an advantageous situation. The snake is now way above the ICs, allowing time for a resync and time to setup to cover landing options.
- If Nana is at higer percents OR only Nana is at higher percents, this is a disadvantaged situation. If the snake is smart, he'll look to see which way you are DIing your controller when the nade hits to follow Nana, possibly resulting in an early kill. However, this is not as bad as the lower percent variation because the knockback does not lead to stage control for the snake, assuming they don't DI to kill Nana.
3. Nana Grabs the snake, Popo is out of grab state. Snake is at low percents:
- If Popo is a lower percents, this is a neutral to disadvantageous situation. Both snake and Popo is in the air while semi separated from nana. Snake's fall speed is much higher so he is more likely to gain stage control.
- If Popo is at higher percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. Both snake and Popo are in the air, but Popo is above snake while extremely separated from Nana. Snake is free to hit Nana and then cover Popo's landing options most of the time.
4. Nana Grabs the Snake, Popo is out of grab state. Snake is at high percents:
- If popo is at lower percents, this is a neutral to advantageous situation. The snake is above the IC player and Popo is only semi separated.
- If Popo is at higher percents, this is a neutral to disadvantageous situation. The snake player is in the air, however, the ICs are now separated. Snake's fall speed and percent differences between Popo and IC player come into play to determine exactly how bad the situation is going to hurt.
5. In the event the non grabbing climber is able to shield the nade: Regardless of percent, this is an advantageous situation for the ICs. Snake is now in the air while both ICs are grounded and have stage control.
Now let's examine scenarios with ICs in the lower port option and snake in the higher port option
1. Popo is in the grab state, Popo is at low percents:
- Nana is at low percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. While the ICs aren't sepearted, they are now above snake in hitstun.
- Nana is at high percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. The ICs are separted AND above snake.
2. Popo is in the grab state, Popo is at high percents:
- Nana is at lower percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. Popo is separated and Nana is now in close proximity to the Snake. However, this situation rarely to ever happens in competitive play.
- Nana is at higher percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs will be above Snake, however they are less likely to be separated.
3. Nana is in the grab state, Nana is at lower percents
- Popo is at lower percents, this is a semi disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake. But they aren't in hit stun long and they aren't separated.
- Popo is at high percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake and separated. Nana is closer to snake player to get hit while Popo recovers.
4. Nana is in the grab state, Nana is at higher percents
- Popo is at lower percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake and separated
- Popo is at higher perecetns, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake but not likely to be separated.
5. Popo is in grab state, Nana shields the nade - Depending on the percent the ICs are now separated. Disadvantageous position.
Now HERE is where things get interesting-
Nana is in grab state, Popo shields the nade - Depending on the percent, ICs are now separated. HOWEVER, if Nana is at low percents OR if snake is at low percents, the possibility to take a stock from this exists via Sopo Dthrow or continued CG. Could be the most highly advantageous position in the MU for a guaranteed grab.
TLDR - If you're good at Uairing snake without eating nades or the snake is really good at covering themselves with cooked nades, you probably want the higher port. If you are bad at Uairing snake without eating nades or you're able to grab snake in time to get a dthrow off, you might go high risk high reward and go for a Nana Grab Break to Sopo Dthrow CG conversion.
That being said, I'm going to go through the combinations of scenarios involving grabbing snake with grenades with either Popo or Nana at various percents and the ramifications of each situation towards practical play.
First, let's assume the traditional practice of the IC player with higher port and the snake player with lower port:
1. Popo grabs the snake so Nana is outside of grab state. Snake is at low percents.:
- If Nana is at lower percents, this is a neutral to advantageous situation. Both Snake and Nana receive little knockback, while Popo goes into ground break animation. The snake is now above the ice climbers, however hitstun is going to be minimal. It might be short enough that a snake could Bair and fast fall prior to IASA on ground break, or at least allow him to stuff an obvious IC uair. Assuming there is enough hitstun to allow for Uairs, Snake is going to take at least an Uair followup. However, it's higher risk lower reward for the most part because the IC is going to be semi-separated from Nana due to some nade knockback.
- If Nana is at higher percents, this is a neutral to disadvantaged situation. The grenade will have enough knockback where the ICs are now separated. The snake won't have as much knock back where unless the Sopo is able to string him, the Snake now has ICs apart with some level of stage control.
2. Popo Grabs the snake so Nana is outside of grab state. Snake is at high percents:
- If Nana is at low percents, this is an advantageous situation. The snake is now way above the ICs, allowing time for a resync and time to setup to cover landing options.
- If Nana is at higer percents OR only Nana is at higher percents, this is a disadvantaged situation. If the snake is smart, he'll look to see which way you are DIing your controller when the nade hits to follow Nana, possibly resulting in an early kill. However, this is not as bad as the lower percent variation because the knockback does not lead to stage control for the snake, assuming they don't DI to kill Nana.
3. Nana Grabs the snake, Popo is out of grab state. Snake is at low percents:
- If Popo is a lower percents, this is a neutral to disadvantageous situation. Both snake and Popo is in the air while semi separated from nana. Snake's fall speed is much higher so he is more likely to gain stage control.
- If Popo is at higher percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. Both snake and Popo are in the air, but Popo is above snake while extremely separated from Nana. Snake is free to hit Nana and then cover Popo's landing options most of the time.
4. Nana Grabs the Snake, Popo is out of grab state. Snake is at high percents:
- If popo is at lower percents, this is a neutral to advantageous situation. The snake is above the IC player and Popo is only semi separated.
- If Popo is at higher percents, this is a neutral to disadvantageous situation. The snake player is in the air, however, the ICs are now separated. Snake's fall speed and percent differences between Popo and IC player come into play to determine exactly how bad the situation is going to hurt.
5. In the event the non grabbing climber is able to shield the nade: Regardless of percent, this is an advantageous situation for the ICs. Snake is now in the air while both ICs are grounded and have stage control.
Now let's examine scenarios with ICs in the lower port option and snake in the higher port option
1. Popo is in the grab state, Popo is at low percents:
- Nana is at low percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. While the ICs aren't sepearted, they are now above snake in hitstun.
- Nana is at high percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. The ICs are separted AND above snake.
2. Popo is in the grab state, Popo is at high percents:
- Nana is at lower percents, this is a disadvantageous situation. Popo is separated and Nana is now in close proximity to the Snake. However, this situation rarely to ever happens in competitive play.
- Nana is at higher percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs will be above Snake, however they are less likely to be separated.
3. Nana is in the grab state, Nana is at lower percents
- Popo is at lower percents, this is a semi disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake. But they aren't in hit stun long and they aren't separated.
- Popo is at high percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake and separated. Nana is closer to snake player to get hit while Popo recovers.
4. Nana is in the grab state, Nana is at higher percents
- Popo is at lower percents, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake and separated
- Popo is at higher perecetns, this is a disadvantageous position. Both ICs are above snake but not likely to be separated.
5. Popo is in grab state, Nana shields the nade - Depending on the percent the ICs are now separated. Disadvantageous position.
Now HERE is where things get interesting-
Nana is in grab state, Popo shields the nade - Depending on the percent, ICs are now separated. HOWEVER, if Nana is at low percents OR if snake is at low percents, the possibility to take a stock from this exists via Sopo Dthrow or continued CG. Could be the most highly advantageous position in the MU for a guaranteed grab.
TLDR - If you're good at Uairing snake without eating nades or the snake is really good at covering themselves with cooked nades, you probably want the higher port. If you are bad at Uairing snake without eating nades or you're able to grab snake in time to get a dthrow off, you might go high risk high reward and go for a Nana Grab Break to Sopo Dthrow CG conversion.