Plz halp, I hate G&W

[MrFrigid]

G&W has got to be the most high priority combo hungry annoying OP character I've ever played against.

How do I destroy him, what are his weaknesses, and who counters him?

 

[SneakyLink]

Well, one weakness would be his weight, he's light so launching him is much easier. Don't bother with energy based projectiles, he can scoop them and send them back. To counter, try a character like Link, who has physical projectiles and reach to stay a moderate distance away.
I apologize if that does not help.

 

[Deleted member]

Shield. Other than grabbing, Mr. Game & Watch has mostly unsafe attacks that are easy to punish.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I have mained Game and Watch since Melee and his worst counter has always been Marth. Anyone with a sword really does well against him because of his tiny range. I can imagine Shulk would be great at keeping G&W out of his face. Game and Watchs combo game mostly comes from his grabs, which unfortunately for him, is also tiny. Abuse his lack of range, seriously, and you will beat just about any Game and Watch. He is obviously quite light so that, again, plays into your hands. There is no way Game and Watch is too brilliant in this game. His kill moves have all been nerfed and I cannot see too many buffs he has received.

I do still play a little G&W these days, so if you like you can add me for some games. Be warned, I am in Australia and as such, there will be lag if we play.

I cant suggest anything other than that man, good luck.

 

[Lúcio]

I have mained Game and Watch since Melee and his worst counter has always been Marth. Anyone with a sword really does well against him because of his tiny range. I can imagine Shulk would be great at keeping G&W out of his face. Game and Watchs combo game mostly comes from his grabs, which unfortunately for him, is also tiny. Abuse his lack of range, seriously, and you will beat just about any Game and Watch. He is obviously quite light so that, again, plays into your hands. There is no way Game and Watch is too brilliant in this game. His kill moves have all been nerfed and I cannot see too many buffs he has received.

I do still play a little G&W these days, so if you like you can add me for some games. Be warned, I am in Australia and as such, there will be lag if we play.

I cant suggest anything other than that man, good luck.

i agree.
link has been my main all the way since smash 64, although i've recently been branching out to gain some player diversity so i play as G&W a LOT now.
his attacks can be devastating but the range is awful; sometimes i get absolutely destroyed by lucinda and shulk.

yeah i think he has been nerfed; i remember CPU lvl9 G&W to be the hardest imaginable offline opponent but now it's "meh".

 

[Paper Maribro]

i agree.
link has been my main all the way since shash 64, although i've recently been branching out to gain some player diversity so i play as G&W a LOT now.
his attacks can be devastating but the range is awful; sometimes i get absolutely destroyed by lucinda and shulk.

yeah i think he has been nerfed; i remember CPU lvl9 G&W to be the hardest imaginable offline opponent but now it's "meh".

From my experience (I dont have a whole heap), I would always pick stages with small blastzones for G&W. It just makes sense because it kind of evens the playing field. Like, G&W has always been light but if you make the stage small, the opponent dies easier but you die easier anyway. Kind of evens it up I feel, so imo his biggest nerf isnt even towards him, its just a result of the new format of the stages. He still dies super early but nobody else does.

Oh and another thing for the OP, Game and Watch is SUPER predictable. His only approach option is basically aerially. His dash attack is good, but his speed isnt really quick enough for it to be a solid approach option. As such, expect lots of Fairs, bairs and Dairs. Dairs are especially punishable on shield, so if he goes super high, just shield and punish.

Welcome to Smashboards btw Lucio!

 

[Lúcio]

From my experience (I dont have a whole heap), I would always pick stages with small blastzones for G&W. It just makes sense because it kind of evens the playing field. Like, G&W has always been light but if you make the stage small, the opponent dies easier but you die easier anyway. Kind of evens it up I feel, so imo his biggest nerf isnt even towards him, its just a result of the new format of the stages. He still dies super early but nobody else does.

Oh and another thing for the OP, Game and Watch is SUPER predictable. His only approach option is basically aerially. His dash attack is good, but his speed isnt really quick enough for it to be a solid approach option. As such, expect lots of Fairs, bairs and Dairs. Dairs are especially punishable on shield, so if he goes super high, just shield and punish.

Welcome to Smashboards btw Lucio!

yeah i agree, especially on predictability.
however that isn't a massive problem since i'm used to it; with link as my main you get used to opponents being able to see your moves from a mile off...

probably my favourite G&W move has gotta be his dash attack.
it isn't good for KOs but it's amazing at knocking opponents all over the stage and (unlike link's powerful dash attack) there's almost no penalty if you miss in terms of lag.
i only really use dash to rack up damage or to disrupt an opponent if they're getting in to a groove.

thanks man - i'm a very experienced smash player (played since the original smash 64) but this is my first time on forums so i have little idea about some of the acronyms you use and where is best to go and all that.

P.S: probably my favourite thing about G&W is his taunts. i just find the bell ringing amazing!

 

[MrFrigid]

Thank you all for advice, yeah I've noticed the best character against him is Link, and Lucina does decently too. He still counters greninja/mario wayyy too well.

& His dash attack is fast and isn't really punishable.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Thank you all for advice, yeah I've noticed the best character against him is Link, and Lucina does decently too. He still counters greninja/mario wayyy too well.

& His dash attack is fast and isn't really punishable.

It's punishable in the sense it is predictable. If he approaches you on the ground you know he is going to dash attack because he won't try and grab because his grab is so short and laggy he would need to feel certain of getting the grab. If you are playing as Mario, just grab OoS. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure this would work. Once grabbed, I am sure G&W would prove as comboable as just about any other character. Just don't spam fireballs as Mario and you will be okay.

 

[Lúcio]

Thank you all for advice, yeah I've noticed the best character against him is Link, and Lucina does decently too. He still counters greninja/mario wayyy too well.

& His dash attack is fast and isn't really punishable.

definitely swordsmen like you said.
just make sure you avoid using ANY energy projectile against him.
people do it all the time against me; using pit or dark pit they just spam his arrows (which i absorb) and then i just wait until they forget about it for an easy KO.

It's punishable in the sense it is predictable. If he approaches you on the ground you know he is going to dash attack because he won't try and grab because his grab is so short and laggy he would need to feel certain of getting the grab. If you are playing as Mario, just grab OoS. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure this would work. Once grabbed, I am sure G&W would prove as comboable as just about any other character. Just don't spam fireballs as Mario and you will be okay.

yeah, you can always see his dash coming but avoiding/countering it is another matter.
i don't tend to grab with him because it's so short but i've heard that you can do a nice down grab + side b combo for a hopeful 9 with judge.

i'm not a great combo-er in general but i find that i can do it okay with G&W, especially if you get them in the air

 

[MrFrigid]

G&W's Fair, Dair, Usmash and Dsmash are NASTY.

 

[Lúcio]

G&W's Fair, Dair, Usmash and Dsmash are NASTY.

they are but only when used by a competent player :D
tbh i think G&W's up B is amazing - gets great height with a parachute fall which is awesome for recovery but it's also great for an extra bit of damage and to get you above the opponent and set up for a Dair

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

So far, I've found that Lucario is GaW's hardest match up. It is very difficult to score KOs against Lucario so his Aura combined with the Rage Effect will allow Lucario to kill GaW pretty early. He also has a fast roll so it can be hard to punish. His recovery is also very difficult to edgeguard against due to the sheer speed and distance it travels despite the fact that this is usually GaW's primary way of scoring KOs. I played a pretty predictable and cocky Lucario not too long ago who would kill me at 30% after I'd get him to 180%. Strangely, I was able to beat him with a character I've never previously played before. Feels like a straight up hard counter.

I've also found that Greninja and Fox are very difficult because GaW's bread and butter combos don't always work on these two. Jab combos don't work and become punishable on hit (so it is difficult for GaW to quickly create space for himself like he can in other match ups). Dthrow into Utilt doesn't work at early percents like it does for nearly the rest of the cast either so his damage output is somewhat reduced against these two. Not as bad as Lucario, but still very difficult match ups so far.

Most skilled Mario players give me a pretty hard time too. It is probably a bad match up, but in no way as bad as Lucario, Greninja, or Fox.

Those are just my early, early impressions though...

 

[Rakurai]

Lucario causes problems for any character who has trouble getting KOs.

Game and Watch's neutral game is way better then his, though, so I doubt it's by any means a counter, especially when you can safely shut down his two ranged options with Oil Panic.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Lúcio]

So far, I've found that Lucario is GaW's hardest match up. It is very difficult to score KOs against Lucario so his Aura combined with the Rage Effect will allow Lucario to kill GaW pretty early. He also has a fast roll so it can be hard to punish. His recovery is also very difficult to edgeguard against due to the sheer speed and distance it travels despite the fact that this is usually GaW's primary way of scoring KOs. I played a pretty predictable and cocky Lucario not too long ago who would kill me at 30% after I'd get him to 180%. Strangely, I was able to beat him with a character I've never previously played before. Feels like a straight up hard counter.

I've also found that Greninja and Fox are very difficult because GaW's bread and butter combos don't always work on these two. Jab combos don't work and become punishable on hit (so it is difficult for GaW to quickly create space for himself like he can in other match ups). Dthrow into Utilt doesn't work at early percents like it does for nearly the rest of the cast either so his damage output is somewhat reduced against these two. Not as bad as Lucario, but still very difficult match ups so far.

Most skilled Mario players give me a pretty hard time too. It is probably a bad match up, but in no way as bad as Lucario, Greninja, or Fox.

Those are just my early, early impressions though...

i agree in a sense - i have absolutely no trouble at all building up an opponenet's damage with G&W.
but when you're against a competent player, getting that smash kill can be painfully difficult at times.
so coming up against a character like who is even stronger at high damage is very dangerous.
i think greninja is just a difficult character in general.
it's just one of those characters that a good player can make it severely difficult to beat.

personally the most frustrating character of all is .
i just don't understand why he has been given such a boost - why is he suddenly so OP?
even his ground pound has a "turbulence" effect (like
) that pushes you back so you can't roll and counter if he misses...

 

[Paper Maribro]

i agree in a sense - i have absolutely no trouble at all building up an opponenet's damage with G&W.
but when you're against a competent player, getting that smash kill can be painfully difficult at times.
so coming up against a character like who is even stronger at high damage is very dangerous.
i think greninja is just a difficult character in general.
it's just one of those characters that a good player can make it severely difficult to beat.

personally the most frustrating character of all is .
i just don't understand why he has been given such a boost - why is he suddenly so OP?
even his ground pound has a "turbulence" effect (like
) that pushes you back so you can't roll and counter if he misses...

As a Yoshi secondary from Melee, trust me, he has always had it. Its the stars that come out when he ground pounds, no effect. I think the biggest buff to ground pound is the start up and end lag boosts that make it more than a free for all move to spam. I have a lot of trouble with Yoshi myself, I have no idea where to even start to beat him.

Well Greninja has those water sword things for his smashes and Game and Watch is basically allergic to swords, they hard counter him in so many ways it is honestly brutal.

I still enjoy playing Game and Watch every now and then, but I do not like how badly he plays in this game. In Melee, at least, it always felt like he was one smash attack away from a kill. He just doesnt have that scary prospect any more so if you are smart, you can easily get through Game and Watchs predictability.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

Now that Yoshi has been mentioned, I do remember having a great deal of difficulty with the Yoshi match up as well...

 

[Lúcio]

As a Yoshi secondary from Melee, trust me, he has always had it. Its the stars that come out when he ground pounds, no effect. I think the biggest buff to ground pound is the start up and end lag boosts that make it more than a free for all move to spam. I have a lot of trouble with Yoshi myself, I have no idea where to even start to beat him.

Well Greninja has those water sword things for his smashes and Game and Watch is basically allergic to swords, they hard counter him in so many ways it is honestly brutal.

I still enjoy playing Game and Watch every now and then, but I do not like how badly he plays in this game. In Melee, at least, it always felt like he was one smash attack away from a kill. He just doesnt have that scary prospect any more so if you are smart, you can easily get through Game and Watchs predictability.

i suppose youk now yoshi more than me - this is my first smash bros game where i've gone online; maybe he's always been this good?
yeah, G&W against swords is painful, although i do quite well against ike because of how slow he is.

i am impressed how the very slow characters do so much more damage with each attack (i.e: , and ) but then when yoshi gives you 30% from just one of those aerial multiiple kick thing, it's just a bit annoying...

 

[Paper Maribro]

i suppose youk now yoshi more than me - this is my first smash bros game where i've gone online; maybe he's always been this good?
yeah, G&W against swords is painful, although i do quite well against ike because of how slow he is.

i am impressed how the very slow characters do so much more damage with each attack (i.e: , and ) but then when yoshi gives you 30% from just one of those aerial multiiple kick thing, it's just a bit annoying...

Nah Yoshi has been pretty much trash in all games. He was serviceable in Melee (Just look up Amsa) but has always lacked out of shield options. You may be surprised to know that Yoshi is actually a heavyweight so dont be surprised he damages highly.

 

[Lúcio]

Nah Yoshi has been pretty much trash in all games. He was serviceable in Melee (Just look up Amsa) but has always lacked out of shield options. You may be surprised to know that Yoshi is actually a heavyweight so dont be surprised he damages highly.

ahhh right, i didn't peg him as a heavy character since he's pretty damn quick and he has a decent jump

my set up isn't bad because i have 3 different types of character
i have who i just like in general; he can very easily dish our damage and has decent aerial combos, although lacks a quick decisive KO.
i have / who are ranged with projectiles but also have very strong sword strikes; not difficult to KO when damage is high
i have who i'm not AMAZING as (a new addition) but he's a very heavy character who does big damage with each hit

with a combination of those 3 (4) characters i can usually beat any character which is decent

 

[Saikyoshi]

This is the first time I've heard someone call G-dubs OP. Going from people thinking he was the most cripplingly nerfed character of all to this, I'm not sure what to think as someone who mained him from the start.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

I'm sorry, but out of all the characters in the game if you think GW is broken then it is your problem and not the character's. I don't think he's the worst but I can name 20, 30 other characters that are better than GW.

 

[Lúcio]

I'm sorry, but out of all the characters in the game if you think GW is broken then it is your problem and not the character's. I don't think he's the worst but I can name 20, 30 other characters that are better than GW.

i agree to an extent.

the issue is that isn't a good or poular character (similar to , and for example) so the few people that you battle against with those characters are likely to be decent with them.

you won't fight enough of them to change your opinion, and you'll carry on thinking G&W is overpowered when in reality he's only good if a decent player controls him.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

i agree to an extent.

the issue is that isn't a good or poular character (similar to , and for example) so the few people that you battle against with those characters are likely to be decent with them.

you won't fight enough of them to change your opinion, and you'll carry on thinking G&W is overpowered when in reality he's only good if a decent player controls him.

Well said. I noticed that he said "combo hungry" and that's an absolutely terrible reason to hate a character. If they're good because they're doing combos instead of just rolling around and spamming smashes then they're obviously a decent player and they're using the character right. Also, the sword characters that he's playing: Marth, Lucina, and Link have a big advantage over GW.

 

[MrFrigid]

G&W ***** my Link, and yeah he was a very good player. I've noticed over the past week or two I've been downing most G&Ws, it was just the pro that made him seem OP.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

I'm sorry, but out of all the characters in the game if you think GW is broken then it is your problem and not the character's. I don't think he's the worst but I can name 20, 30 other characters that are better than GW.

Be careful when saying things like that. I've seen instances in other games where characters that were thought of as being incredibly low tier early on within the game's life ended up being top tier in the long run. I've come off as looking pretty silly in the past when describing certain characters of other games before the metagame could truly develop.

Don't get me wrong though...so far I do personally think of GaW as a low tier but that could potentially change in the future.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

G&W ***** my Link, and yeah he was a very good player. I've noticed over the past week or two I've been downing most G&Ws, it was just the pro that made him seem OP.

Okay well you adapted, that's good! I know that when I first played against Little Mac I got destroyed, and then I learned how gimpable he was and now he's pretty easy to fight. The only character that really gives me trouble still is Rosalina, I just don't get the dolphin.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

Be careful when saying things like that. I've seen instances in other games where characters that were thought of as being incredibly low tier early on within the game's life ended up being top tier in the long run. I've come off as looking pretty silly in the past when describing certain characters of other games before the metagame could truly develop.

Don't get me wrong though...so far I do personally think of GaW as a low tier but that could potentially change in the future.

Like how Mango showed how good Puff is. Well, you may be right, people have already discovered that bucket is broken in teams.

 

[Lúcio]

G&W ***** my Link, and yeah he was a very good player. I've noticed over the past week or two I've been downing most G&Ws, it was just the pro that made him seem OP.

you haven't faced me yet
i'm new with G&W but i'm certainly not bad

 

[Dymfer]

I've mained our beloved Mr. Game & Watch since Melee, and right now I think Lucina is the character that gives me most headaches. I believe anyway that is a matter of time to adapt to all the characters; at the beginning Greninja and Little Mac seemed impossible to beat, and now I easily deal with most of them. It is not broken, you just have to keep training, like with any other character. Though there is something the rest will never have: The history and grandiosity of Mr.G&W.

 

[SFA Smiley]

If you guys think the Marth/Lucinas are hard now, you have no idea the immense difficulty of that matchup in Brawl

It actually feels possible now