Please help with a Mario Critique - I have one last video to show you

[Vyse]

These are matches from nearly 2 weeks ago. My crew mate's Mario is a little rocky, but I'd really like to see it grow. I don't know enough about the plumber in Brawl to help him much, but I really want to encourage him to get better.

Vyse Vs. DiCE (Otherwise known as K-0S)

Vyse(Diddy) Vs. DiCE(Mario) R1

Vyse(Diddy) Vs. DiCE(Mario) R2

Any and all critiques are welcome. He admits that he doesn't spend any time watching pro mario vids, which is a shame =_=

---

UPDATE

Here's a new (well old) vid of him playing against a Wolf. Shows a different side to his play style (I think).

Rune(Wolf) Vs. DiCE(Mario)

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

From the start I can tell he can't control his fireballs at all and he's only shorthopping them which is only useful some of the time...He's not doing a very good job of controlling the match...playing against Diddy is all about stopping his momentum he's letting you walk around freely...he doesn't seem to know the timing for auto canceling his dair...he's falling for the same thing multiple times...he's hardly using aerials...

overall...not to sound like an *******...he's one of the worst Marios I have ever seen...He's playing Mario all wrong...he never approached once and got severely punished for letting you move around.

in closing...More aerials, Fireball smarter, APPROACH

 

[Mario_ 101]

What monk said and i didn't see any attempts for combos, like d throw to u tilt ****.

 

[Matador]

Fireballs are terrible projectiles for spamming/camping. His defensive game was decent, and he protected himself well, but his offensive game left something to be desired. No jab cancels, no double SH aerials, no Bair approaches, no Uair binds, no Utilt chains, all of which are important to Mario's close range game.

But I believe this is due largely to his opponent. All of Mario's approaches are dangerous vs Diddy because he can be easily punished with banana ****. Because of this, his usage of fireballs is justified, and he also realized that throwing bananas off instead of trying to use them is the best option. His use of the cape was definitely good as a defensive option. It'd be cool to see him vs a different opponent since Diddy is an odd matchup; completely centered around playing keep-away.

His Mario does have a few flaws tho. Nothing serious from what I can tell. His approach game is lacking for whenever he actually DOES approach, and his edgeguarding could be alot more aggressive. Mario can reliably edgeguard Diddy with cape, fludd and Nair but he never utilized this. He rarely went for grabs and rarely Fsmashed which kills Diddy at 100% easy and outranges alot of Diddy's attacks.

 

[Judge Judy]

His strategy might work better if he abused the craq walk with his aerials. It's not bad, it actually pretty interesting cause he really tries to abuse Mario's floatiness and lagless moves. It looks lke he's a beginner who's trying out new things, i wouldn't be hard on him. But there is definetly a LOT of room for improvement.

 

[EarthWindandFire]

Lol, if the Mario user wants to spam projectiles, he needs to configure being a T link or Flyco user.
Either way, he should of least approached with shieldgrabs or something, fireballs doesn't really have any
major traits for campspam because of their low stun and dissapointing trajectory and speed.

 

[Genos]

Monk hit the nail on the head with this one.

He should be charging Fludd. Even if he doesn't use it, it adds weight so Mario can survive longer. I'm not sure how good it works against Diddy, but it's a very effective edgeguard on a lot of characters, especially when used with the cape.

I noticed in the first video that he would drop fireballs both ways when he was camping. That's just dumb. I know he was trying to DI back and forth to avert the trajectory of his fireballs, but it doesn't do you any good if you don't shoot them the right way.

In the second video, he was fireballing off the ledge. That's just dumb. Not only could the fireballs barely reach you, but he put himself at risk of being gimped by you. In fact, he managed to gimp himself.

He should try a fireball approach rather than camp, at least against you. Camping is appropriate for certain matchups, but diddy is pretty nimble. You didn't have trouble getting around the camping to get in a few banana throws.

Something really important to Mario's game is the use of aerials. He appeared to be playing off of the ground, and that's a bad idea for Mario. He could try following up his ground attacks with more aerials rather than retreating with fireballs. Short hopping aerials is also awesome. It leads to some sweet combos, which is where Mario really shines.

As for the Diddy Mario matchup, he shouldn't be afraid to cape the bananas. At one point he attempted it, but became really predictable with his capes so it wasn't effective.

Also, lol Aussies.

 

[Vyse]

Okay thanks guys. I really really appreciate all the feedback you've given.
I'll be sure to get his sorry butt in here to see this as well.

Also, I have another video of him playing against a wolf, which I think shows a different side of his playstyle. I'll upload it soon.

 

[Matador]

Okay thanks guys. I really really appreciate all the feedback you've given.
I'll be sure to get his sorry butt in here to see this as well.

Also, I have another video of him playing against a wolf, which I think shows a different side of his playstyle. I'll upload it soon.

That'd be cool, playing vs Diddy is never easy. You have to change your playstyle about as much as you would vs DDD to avoid his infinite.

 

[ALiAsVee]

Besides whats already been said, use the fireballs to pressure diddy into awkward situations. Like attacking an airborne diddy with a fireball usually causes them to airdodge, which ends up being punished if you fastfall to the ground and meet them before the animation ends. Use fireballs to pressure and squeeze your opponent, because they are inferior when retreating.

I wouldn't go so far as to call him the worst mario however..

 

[-Nana-]

Like most have said you definately over do the fireballs. I DO NOT think they are a bad projectile by any means but they are slow and easy to predict so not a useful spam. If you went up against an agressive smart player with those tactics I think you would have a very hard time.

Mario is a week character and does not kill well but is great at comboing which you should definately try to focus on. Things like Jab>d throw> uairs/dairs or utilts and usmashes rack up damage quick. Also the cape can be abused in so many situations. First of all any projectile even bananas but everyone knows that but even if you decided to drop down and cape diddy while he was charging his upB ....Diddy tilts as he angles himself unlike Fox or Falco who will still go the same direction if you cape them before they actually take off. If you did Cape Diddy he would have been sent the other way to death even if it was before he took off. Try experimenting with all of his attacks and specials especially weak/low knock back attacks for comboing. Take a look at Boss's Mario it's pretty **** good. Hope this helped. Good Mario nonetheless :0)

 

[Judge Judy]

Seriously, there's got to be a reliable way of landing a Fsmash.

 

[-Nana-]

the c stick always works <.< Mario Fsmashes are quick have decent range and priority. Try predicting your opponents movements more because an fsmash with Mario is not hard to pull off.

 

[Judge Judy]

Yah, but I'm talking about reliable or at least semi-reliab setups for an Fsmash. The only thing I can think of is fireball to Fsmash if your opponent misses a tech.

 

[-Nana-]

I see.... well fireballs don't stun so you can't tech them. I just don't see his fsmash as something that needs to be setup it's too quick it's not like Ik's fsmash or anything near that. Try doing tilts a couple uptilts or a ftilt tofsmash works decent.

I have just been trying stuff out and 1 or 2 jabs>fsmash works well and also grab to jabs until they break out >fsmash. That depends though you'll need to predict. Most people like to roll behind after breaking free so try smashing behind you maybe even charging since his is fast.

 

[Judge Judy]

I meant if your opponent misses a tech you can use a fireball on them which allows you directly follow up into a Fsmash, and if you're close enough a jab lock too.

 

[Matador]

Seriously, there's got to be a reliable way of landing a Fsmash.

Just predict your opponent well. If you know where they're going, throw out an Fsmash. Some things that WORK but aren't true combos or anything are:

Bair -> Fsmash

jab -> Fsmash. Generally plays on reflex to shield after jab. People usually drop their shield when they aren't attacked right after shield. Doesn't work on everyone.

Down-angled Fsmash from the edge when the opponent is recovering low.

punishing a predicted rolldodge. Scrubs roll behind you...all the time.

punishing lag after a predicted airdodge. Usually need to be angled up.

Spacing is too important for Fsmash. It has so much range.

Edit: Nair > Diddy's upB. Good vs Diddy especially if they recover from below. Usually when they're beginning to charge their upB in a predictable angle (it's ALWAYS predictable), throw out your Nair since it has more priority and cancels both moves out. Diddy cannot regain control for quite awhile...long enough for you to edgeguard him much better or end up killing him. The Nair must connect as he's moving, not while charging, it goes straight through and he regains control too quick.

Vids of this later.

 

[Judge Judy]

Hey, by the way I found that Mario's Nair also goes through ZSS's Up B.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Fireball can be used to interupt jumps and stall opponent's in the air scince at higher damage it has a slight vertical knockback. So they won't be able to shield in the air it makes it easier to combo. They do nothing to opponents on the ground unless they are about to jump. Fireballs affect the falling/ rising speed.

Now Cape, Now that cape does nothing to those that shield and doesn't move mario much in the air its major use is edgegaurding and stopping projectiles. It beats most aerial moves that aren't disjointed but has little disjointed range most of its range Mario can still be hit.

F-air is not marios strongest move. D-air is not mario's fastest. N-air is the fastest and D-air is the strongest with 14% on a double hit just like sonic(1%1%1%1%1%+7% and/or 2%). The timing of the double hit takes practice so start with bowser where its easiest and then go to the other characters. If D-air is done the moment mario jumps the landing lag is missed. B-Air and N-air should be used long before F-air. F-air should be used mostly to KO. Comboing is difficult because even though it has good setup around 50% with some characters others like bowser take to around 55% and to make it worse after 60-65% damage its not a unbreakable combo anymore it can be dodged out of.

D-smash is Mario's best smash in speed and Priority. U-Smash also has good speed and scince is shorter duration in most cases is better. D-Dsmash should be used when you know it would hit, your opponent will be out prioritized, or is lagging. If you get really technical and anticipate the opponent's DI you can get a 27% double hit with D-smash. F-smash is different it does lots of damage 17% when sweet-spotted but is slower.

Dash attack has Super Armor only at the end of the move and at no other times. F-Tilt has good priority and does good damage so include that in your arsenal. Mario F-Tilt gives him speed on the ground. With good spacing its very hard to punish when shielded.

*Walking Grab* Great for improving Mario's grab reach and adding damage to the opponent scince Mario has a 12-13% B-Throw. U-tilt is good for adding damage at low percents but it needs setup most of the time D-Throw can lead into U-tilts to rack up damage. F-throw can be used if they DI because it can lead into combos. Walking cape makes Cape combos easier scince cape requires Mario to be far away for it to be disjointed. Running also extends cape range only making Mario closer when they are turned around. Scince shielders aren't turned around grabing after this isn't as effective because they can grab before you.

In order to KO F-air, FLUDD, Cape is most effective. If the opponent has very good DI and shielding KOing with F-smash / D-smash / U-Smash will be too dificult. F-air, FLUDD, and Cape require setup usually an F-throw, F-tilt, Horizontal D-air(both players on ground at Mario hits ground) N-air, B-air or Reverse U-air. Dash Attack can hit under shields and can get Mario behind the opponent easily.

 

[Judge Judy]

*Walking Grab* Great for improving Mario's grab reach and adding damage to the opponent scince Mario has a 12-13% B-Throw. U-tilt is good for adding damage at low percents but it needs setup most of the time D-Throw can lead into U-tilts to rack up damage. F-throw can be used if they DI because it can lead into combos. Walking cape makes Cape combos easier scince cape requires Mario to be far away for it to be disjointed. Running also extends cape range only making Mario closer when they are turned around. Scince shielders aren't turned around grabing after this isn't as effective because they can grab before you.

Just so you know, you even cancel the first step for a lot of extra grab range. Just hold foward and grab and it's practically automatic. I've been trying grab release with it to see if Mario has any release grab chains.

 

[Genos]

Fireball can be used to interupt jumps and stall
Dash attack has Super Armor only at the end of the move and at no other times. F-Tilt has good priority and does good damage so include that in your arsenal. Mario F-Tilt gives him speed on the ground. With good spacing its very hard to punish when shielded.

Dash attack has super armor? That's a definite no.

 

[Vyse]

I'm glad this thread has stirred up so much discussion : D

I'm sad to inform you though, that K-0S pretty much quit smash last week.

He got beaten in a Metaknight Ditto with a complete scrub, so he rage quitted. Although I think it's more to do with the 'I can't be bothered' part about him which really annoys me since he had such a great Doc in Melee.

He's sold his Wii and all of his games to trade up to a PS3 =_=

Still, I'll pass everything onto him, and make him post here.

 

[Genos]

Vyse Has Wasted Our Time. What A Jerk.

 

[cHooKay]

your friend sure loves fireballs dude....

Not saying that mario's fireballs are not useful at all, don't get me wrong on that, its just that the way he spams it isn't really progressing his metagame. For me, i see fireball spamming useful mostly in either of the three ways; gaining defensive breathing space, looking for 'rushing' combo/approaching opportunities via fireball, and gimping...

RAR, become best friends with that term, breath in it.....
I could mention more things, but honestly i suggest tellin him to watching videos of pros. I mean that's what i pretty much done in smash period, watch videos. Easiest way to learn how to use a character and develop a style based off of that vid.

For me in brawl, i was really intrigued by monks vids and this other dude named jason. Both great mario's. Although i still watch every other vid to pick things up. ie. a couple of months back i saw a random vid of someone manipulating mario's cape ledgestall tech, and on my own (it was probably already discovered but oh well) i figured that you can actually ledgestall away from the edge and approach back on the stage with a bair. Heh, gets them every time -_-

 

[Vyse]

Vyse Has Wasted Our Time. What A Jerk.

your friend sure loves fireballs dude....

Not saying that mario's fireballs are not useful at all, don't get me wrong on that, its just that the way he spams it isn't really progressing his metagame. For me, i see fireball spamming useful mostly in either of the three ways; gaining defensive breathing space, looking for 'rushing' combo/approaching opportunities via fireball, and gimping...

RAR, become best friends with that term, breath in it.....
I could mention more things, but honestly i suggest tellin him to watching videos of pros. I mean that's what i pretty much done in smash period, watch videos. Easiest way to learn how to use a character and develop a style based off of that vid.

For me in brawl, i was really intrigued by monks vids and this other dude named jason. Both great mario's. Although i still watch every other vid to pick things up. ie. a couple of months back i saw a random vid of someone manipulating mario's cape ledgestall tech, and on my own (it was probably already discovered but oh well) i figured that you can actually ledgestall away from the edge and approach back on the stage with a bair. Heh, gets them every time -_-

I think a lot of the problem is that it's this particular match up that forces him to play this way. I have a match of him playing against a wolf where he is a lot more aggressive.

For him, a lot of his problems when it comes to Brawl are psychological. He'd already decided before playing against me that he would spam fire balls to stop my banana play, rather than try to turn the bananas against me or otherwise adapt to the match.

 

[Matador]

I'm glad this thread has stirred up so much discussion : D

I'm sad to inform you though, that K-0S pretty much quit smash last week.

He got beaten in a Metaknight Ditto with a complete scrub, so he rage quitted. Although I think it's more to do with the 'I can't be bothered' part about him which really annoys me since he had such a great Doc in Melee.

He's sold his Wii and all of his games to trade up to a PS3 =_=

Still, I'll pass everything onto him, and make him post here.

We all have those moments...especially when it comes to this game. The entire country of Italy had a simutaneous "epiphany" just a little while ago

 

[HeroMystic]

He's sold his Wii and all of his games to trade up to a PS3 =_=

Still, I'll pass everything onto him, and make him post here.

That's one helluva rage quit...

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully he'll get better and maybe later on he'll return to the smash scene.

We all have those moments...especially when it comes to this game. The entire country of Italy had a simutaneous "epiphany" just a little while ago

Oh yeah... even though Italy doesn't have much of a Smash community in the first place.

 

[Matador]

Oh yeah... even though Italy doesn't have much of a Smash community in the first place.

I find that hilarious. They've had the game for what...2 months now, barely any tourneys, and they're already banning characters.

GG Italy

 

[Vyse]

Well as promised, I have one more video to show you all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loRd84c0Ols

Here he is playing against a wolf, and I think he plays a little more aggressively.
Still pretty **** rough around the edges (And that's putting it nicely) : P

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I think a lot of the problem is that it's this particular match up that forces him to play this way. I have a match of him playing against a wolf where he is a lot more aggressive.

For him, a lot of his problems when it comes to Brawl are psychological. He'd already decided before playing against me that he would spam fire balls to stop my banana play, rather than try to turn the bananas against me or otherwise adapt to the match.

Play defensive is one of the last things you want to do when fighting diddy...he'll walk all over you

Well as promised, I have one more video to show you all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loRd84c0Ols

Here he is playing against a wolf, and I think he plays a little more aggressively.
Still pretty **** rough around the edges (And that's putting it nicely) : P

Right off the bat I can say he's still using fireballs wrong. He is more aggressive...but no offense the wolf isn't that good.

other than that I can't really say anything

 

[kid-y3k]

i kinda wanted to see more combos and ariels and stuff all i really saw was fireballs

 

[Vyse]

Myeah. I would grant them the fact that its an old video (Rune has improved tremendously since then).

Also, today he took 2nd at a convention tournament going all Mario, losing to a Metaknight. I was really suprised.

I've managed to convert him back to Brawl. And at the very least he's supplying TVs for my tournament.
I guess I just wanted to keep him involved with the smash scene somewhat. He's going to be competing in the Australian National Brawl tournament 'Queensland Brawl Buddies' exactly 7 days from now, so I'll report back with how his Mario goes.

 

[Genos]

He did seem better against the Wolf. There were some silly things like angling his up b the wrong way and get mindgamed, but it's at least better than the Diddy fight. He should try shorthopping fireballs and going for more combos.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Super Armor on Dash Attack

No super Armor? Really if it doesn't that's wierd because you can stop Wario's F-smash with it.