Playing Online: Need tips / help

[Xanthus]

I'm having trouble adapting to the delay online, and can't move or play nearly as well. I've probably put in about 2 hours total at this point, but am still being frustrated with it.

I'm winning against about half the people I play, but when I play somebody who knows what they're doing, I don't know how to keep up. I see them doing tech chases, still doing advanced maneuvers responding to me very quickly. But on my end it feels like I have to play 1/4th second ahead of time and just throw out predicted moves.

I know I have to get better, but even beyond that I feel that I'm missing something playing online. I'm seeing other people do things I know I can do offline, but can't execute with the delay. Anybody have any tips to help out? Do you just have to have the game 100% down to muscle memory to play online? Or do you just put in a ton of time online and learn to deal with playing 1/4th second in the past? Or what am I missing?

 

[DrinkingFood]

You can get used to the lag and perform as technically consistent there as you can without the delay, that takes a lot of time. What you can't ever make up for though, is lost reaction time. Input delay automatically adds however much delay there is to your existing average reaction time. What you're experiencing online is likely confirmation bias telling you that others are reacting to your techs/rolls when the reality is that they are predicting them well. It might be that you have bad teching habits, or use a character(s) with bad rolls against characters fast enough to chase them down on reaction even with the delay. This doesn't just apply to rolls and techs either, but the point is that it's literally impossible to react online as well as you can offline, even if it is possible to be as technically consistent.

Also, I would suggest just not playing online if you can help it. The Wii's online is terrible.

 

[smashbro29]

Tips to playing online:

Step 1: Don't play online.

 

[Xanthus]

Tips to playing online:

Step 1: Don't play online.

I might have to agree with this. The main fun of the game with me is the movement and the feel of the attacks. If you take that away, I don't have nearly as much fun with it. It's nice to get better at reading different opponents, and coming up with new options myself... but online is ruining this game for me.

I don't have the opportunity to play people that often, but I've been digging into AI coding a bit, I'll just try to make better AI; I'd rather play bots with responsive controls than ****ty online. That'll have to do until AirDashOnline gets made . That and driving to somewhat nearby tournaments or hosting some myself.

And thanks DrinkingFood, what you're saying definitely makes sense.

 

[Abeebo]

I feel like its a hit or miss with online play. I started visiting dabessdi recently and I've gotten a couple smooth matches where delay was surprisingly minimal, and some where the lag is so bad that the game itself starts to slow down only to lead to a disconnect.

I myself have very very few people that are interested in smash bros, and only one of them genuinely likes playing M competitively, which means I hardly get to play against a human that can challenge my skill. No car makes tourney hopping quite difficult as well. Two hours was all I needed to get used to it, but then again I main bowser. He doesn't require high end precise movement, so I could just be better off.

 

[deadjames]

Also, I would suggest just not playing online if you can help it. The Wii's online is terrible.

The Wii has nothing to do with it, it's all about connection strength.

I main bowser. He doesn't require high end precise movement

I disagree, I main Bowser as well and online lag can make it really hard to jump cancel Bowser Bomb and up-b OOS. Not to mention he already has the hardest WD in the game and lag can make it even worse.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Wrong, the Wii has a forced 6 frames of lag for wifi matches. Even with a perfect connection, that's there. Add to that that you're rarely going to have a connection nearby (especially if you're using wifi for lack of human opponents) and you can regularly get upwards of quarter to half a second lag. That's a lot.

Bowser also doesn't have the hardest wavedash. If you're used to other wavedashes, than it's the hardest to get used to, but from the standpoint of players who can't wavedash, Bowser's requires the slowest timing. I could agree that Up-b OOS would be more difficult online though, especially since that's something that requires reaction to someone hitting your shield. Otherwise though, he's probably one of the best characters to play online- the forced delay allows him to get away with his slower moveset because the opponent usually won't have time to react and punish/avoid his approaches.

 

[deadjames]

Wrong, the Wii has a forced 6 frames of lag for wifi matches. Even with a perfect connection, that's there. Add to that that you're rarely going to have a connection nearby (especially if you're using wifi for lack of human opponents) and you can regularly get upwards of quarter to half a second lag. That's a lot.

That still has nothing to do with the Wii's online functionality, which works perfectly.

Edit: Also, I see what you're saying about Bowser's WD, but I think it's still accurate to say that because of its strange frame window, it's harder than most characters'. I would also disagree with your recommendation not to play online there's really no downside to playing against as many new people as possible even if there is lag involved.

 

[DrinkingFood]

the Wii has a forced 6 frames of lag for wifi matches

That still has nothing to do with the Wii's online functionality

The Wii has nothing to do with the Wii
u wot m8

WiFi has a habit of teaching you that things are safe when they aren't, particularly slow moves that the wifi delay prevents your opponent from reliably punishing. If you're trying to get good, then no, it's probably not a good thing to play as much wifi as possible.

 

[Abeebo]

I disagree, I main Bowser as well and online lag can make it really hard to jump cancel Bowser Bomb and up-b OOS. Not to mention he already has the hardest WD in the game and lag can make it even worse.

I understand what you're saying, as I myself have had issues with a few moves (Flame Cancel in particular). I meant to refer to characters unlike Bowser, that relies much more on getting around the stage quickly(wavebouncing, high run speed/mobility) or require higher precision (PK kids recovery, shine wavedashes) at times. Surely, some of these characters and/or their tools are trickier to use with wifi lag.

 

[Alexo30]

I would only suggest playing WiFi if there's no one in your area to Smash with. I'm halfway good online because I just about have this game 100% muscle memory lol.

 

[Abeebo]

WiFi has a habit of teaching you that things are safe when they aren't, particularly slow moves that the wifi delay prevents your opponent from reliably punishing. If you're trying to get good, then no, it's probably not a good thing to play as much wifi as possible.

This makes it sound like wifi matches are detrimental to a player's ability, which should be the opposite. You shouldn't be getting WORSE from playing more, even if the matches are wonky sometimes. I'll agree that lag can interfere with a person's style and makes it harder to adapt and learn, but ultimately it depends on how good the connection is. It's a hit or miss in my experience.

 

[smashbro29]

The issue with this game's online is that it is so bad it will actively make you think differently than offline play. For P:M specifically it's even worse because you need a special build that isn't 100% accurate.