Playing For Show

[Big-Cat]

I see a lot of discussion about Smash 4 from a spectator viewpoint. It's not fast, flashy, etc. like a certain game.

I think this type of thinking promotes serious game myopia for what we should or shouldn't do both as players and as a meta. People are quick to hop on to the next fast input technique that has limited use just because it's fast.

Defensive play and zoning are demonized as detrimental to the game by players that don't know what they're talking about.

We should not worry about playing for show. I think eSports and sponsors talk is having us losing sight of what's important - playing to win. Winning is not always pretty or hype inducing. We should be focusing on maximizing the potential of our tactics and play in a way that is both efficient and to our preferences.

Winning should be our primary and entertaining others secondary.

 

[AnchorTea]

I see a lot of discussion about Smash 4 from a spectator viewpoint. It's not fast, flashy, etc. like a certain game.

I think this type of thinking promotes serious game myopia for what we should or shouldn't do both as players and as a meta. People are quick to hop on to the next fast input technique that has limited use just because it's fast.

Defensive play and zoning are demonized as detrimental to the game by players that don't know what they're talking about.

We should not worry about playing for show. I think eSports and sponsors talk is having us losing sight of what's important - playing to win. Winning is not always pretty or hype inducing. We should be focusing on maximizing the potential of our tactics and play in a way that is both efficient and to our preferences.

Winning should be our primary and entertaining others secondary.

It's sad that the current "best" Smash player plays only for attention. Well, he didn't at first, but now he does.

 

[deepseadiva]

Winning should be our primary and entertaining others secondary.

They're not mutually exclusive goals. You can only really start styling when you're very good. Otherwise you're not getting far in tournament (and thus being on stream) anyway.

Viewership, audience, and hype is the glue that makes the Smash community a COMMUNITY. Nothing is more gripping in this game than some of the last stocks between two professional players going for the win, and showing off their ability to literally "play" on the stage.

It's true there is demonizing of defensive play. But that is only as a effective as the game allows it to be, and in a game like Smash 4, there is a lot of counter-aggression available - which does create a hero/villain dynamic. I think that's fine IN-GAME. I love it actually.

The only time I have issue with the dislike of defense is when it steps OUTSIDE the game. Watching Dabuz lose his moment when people started rushing for Melee was tremendously disappointing. As long as you respect the player, you can hate their playstyle as much as you like. I think that's healthy and good.

Winning should be our primary and entertaining others secondary.

More on this supposed dichotomy:

Have you ever seen any fighting anime? Final battles between top tier characters are always amazing because they control so much power. They don't have to exert much against lower strength characters, but when faced with real opposition, creativity, style, and precision all are required elements. That's what a real opponent asks for otherwise you lose.

Voldemort vs Dumbledore? Crazy.

Homura vs Mami? Jeessusss.

Garnet vs Jasper? omggggggg

Sometime playing to win might get ugly but that will be because the game itself is ugly. When optimal gameplay is boring and uninteresting, the game will die. See: Brawl, lol. Otherwise, don't worry about winning being a prerogative. Playing to win is self-realizing. What is that called in economics? The Invisible Hand?

 

[Phan7om]

As a person who does adequate research on what it is to be flashy, you can still do it in this game. Being flashy in 4 is, basically, completely different than in Melee the way its carried out. Of course they both boil down to the same thing, which is either doing something the crowd/opponent never expects (for example, some crazy footstool shenanigans with Luigi when most luigis rather not, etc.) or doing something the crowd wants (ex. getting a quadruple knee with Falcon, etc.), but i can say because of the way this game (or characters) is designed its harder.

The reason players dont play flashy is because they either dont know how, they have a very basic and linear play to win mentality, or some combination of both. As OP said, we shouldnt worry about playing for show... that goes with all smash games or anything competitive in general.

Im just talking in general here, but Melee isnt enjoyable strictly because the players play flashy. In fact there is like < 10 well known flashy players imo. Melee is enjoyable from a spectator standpoint because of a lot of factors that i could write a book about. And is still considered by many very enjoyable even though the majority of the players dont "play for show". So in comparing basic Melee play to basic 4 play... of course lots of people would rather watch melee.

If you really want to play flashy go ahead, but unless you really study and theorycraft what being flashy means you're not going to be good (good meaning a threat to top level players) ever. From personal experience, its a hard road to take and the growth will take twice or three times as long as normal but trust me it will be worth it in the end.

TLDR, I agree with the OP. People should not worry about what the masses think of their play. And if the viewers really hate what 4 is becoming, either crank down and find out ways to make it better or stop complaining.

 

[Big-Cat]

They're not mutually exclusive goals. You can only really start styling when you're very good. Otherwise you're not getting far in tournament (and thus being on stream) anyway.

Except there's no need for being fancy even if you are good.

 

[Kurri ★]

But being fancy is fun, and if you're good, and you have the moment, why not do something fancy?

As important as it is to win, it's also important to have fun while you're doing it.

 

[Dr.Faust]

There is never a logical need to be flashy but its still cool. As a player who likes Long distance/footsie fighters i don't go with flashy but to each his own

 

[Fluorescent]

Flashy or not, if it's all about your play then it's good in my book.

As long as if you're having fun and being good at what you're doing, I think you'll do great even if it's for show or not.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Usually when I see people complain about a boring set the first thing I say is "Play to win, not to entertain."
When there are things on the line such as money or notoriety, you want to win. The people complaining are only looking at it from their own viewpoint.
If you can pull off something crazy, so be it. I don't believe that some people expect a crazy clutch play every set, it just doesn't work that way.

Even Bizzarro Flame has to stop styling at some point to finish a set on top, even if he landed some crazy 5 dair string just a couple minuets ago.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's why you don't see more jiggs in Melee, she plays lame and not flashy.

 

[Raijinken]

If your goal is to not grow into a popular esport, by all means, ignore the spectator aspect. Keep dim, cramped, poorly organized tournaments, scrap the commentary, run late schedules, etc. We don't need to be an esport to be a solid competitive community, and none of those have any significant bearing on the competition itself, merely how it's perceived.

But I'd be lying if I said I'd rather be competitive than actually acknowledged as something besides a kiddy Nintendo game. And, personally, seeing as one of the best sources of new competitors is spectators, I think it's important to at least be considerate of their experience.

Good commentary and interesting events can make up for almost any amount of boring in-game events.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'd ignore it personally.

Who cares what some people think of our playstyle, if it works do it.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

This doesn't mean crap coming from someone with results as weak as mine, but I don't give a single damn about what looks good. If a player wants to play flashy, I'm all for it, but I don't spend hard earned dollars and hours of travel time to go entertain someone. I'm there to compete, and if I think my best chance to do it is to play as boring and lame as humanly possible, that's what I'm going to do. I'll applaud anyone who times their opponent out, in any game. You're in a competition, not a circus.

If you want to entertain, that's 100% fine, and everyone has their own reasons for playing. But a competitor's job is to compete and do his best to win. Looking down on someone because they chose to play it safe and win the set is dumb.

Maybe someday they'll start handing out judges prizes for interesting play, but until then, do whatever works.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

I'm pretty sure that being "flashy" has to do with actually knowing how to play the game. Considering that this game has only been out for 7 months, I don't think we're there yet. A lot of people are using "easy-bake" combos because they're easy to use and are handy. This is why the Hoo-Hah became a thing in the first place.

However, once you actually get time to play the game, you'll learn more about mixups and counterplays to easy combo options. That's what makes games exciting to watch. It's that "ooh, what's he gonna do next?" factor. And that really only comes from experience with matchups, players, and the game itself.

 

[Big-Cat]

Spectating expects you to know the game reasonably well. Those that don't understand fundamentals won't understand "the show".

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Playing to win is necessary... any competition is about winning, but we get to agree that the game also has "Spectator excitement" as a key value in competitive play. That's one of the reasons why Brawl died and Melee/PM are still alive and fresh. More people want to watch it, and they learn, and they play, and the community grows... Hype just becomes natural when we master the game, or do you think Melee players don't play for both sides (winning and hype)? It may be like that with Smash 4 if we let the game fresh and alive.