TheUndeadReturns
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2015
- Messages
- 49
- NNID
- House0fFastFood
Before I start, please keep the quotes in mind. Posting a thing with this kind of title is pretty scary, so I just wanted to make clear my own personal opinions on it (ie; I want to put the idea out, but don't think it'll affect the meta a whole lot, or at all, frankly).
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Alright, so the idea to test this came in mind when I kept seeing players try to refresh ledge invincibility with the most obnoxious ways possible. Made me think of the way to do it, but I haven't seen this anywhere, so I thought I might want to make a post about it.
Take the word "Planking" with a grain of salt, it's not really planking, but it would remind you of planking if you looked at it. It's done by pressing down while holding the ledge (not away, as this is descends you slower, not putting you into fast-fall automatically), and you jump at the according height to make you land on stage in a much safer way (this is different from ledge-hopping). After this, you just do the inputs to dash off-stage and grab the ledge as soon as you land.
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Well first I'll address why this isn't very useful.
1. You need to land in the exact spot at the ledge (very close to it), to where when you dash, you don't do an on-stage dash. It makes things much slower, and much more punishable if it isn't done as quick as possible.
2. The inputs are very easy to screw up, and in different ways.
- If you try too hard not to do an on-stage dash (mentioned in #1), you'll likely end up fast falling down. This puts you in a HORRIBLE position, as for one, if your recovery isn't good, you're pretty much dead, and if it is, good you're still open to a ledge punish, which can result in deaths at 60 on characters with GOOD recoveries.
- If you do the inputs too fast, you do a ledge-hop instead, which should be self-explanatory to why that's a bad thing.
(I'll insert a remedy to this later in the post).
3. Even if you do it fast enough, this game has high rewards for on-stage edgeguards, and chars like Pikachu can easily snipe you off the ledge, or just use disjoints to knock you off, like Marth.
4. It doesn't even work properly for a lot of characters, as their jump ascent and fall speeds are just too slow to make it fast. In Ganon's case, he needs to be frame-perfect just to ledge-hop NORMALLY.
5. Typically is a sign that you're giving up stage control, or have already lost it.
Why this COULD be useful. (Ranging from partially - extremely situational events)
1. Well, planking. For some characters, this is extremely safe when combined with an attack (another thing I'll address later) with low landing lag/start-up.
2. Edge-guard situation on someone who doesn't have a (reliable, Bowser's can potentially be an example, but it's still a stretch) hitbox on their recovery, and you're regrabbing hoping to get the trump. (this is admittedly a stupid reason because they can just buffer a get-up option once they see you doing it and not get trumped)
3. Simply needing to quickly refresh ledge invincibility to get more time to think (just as a quick thing to pull out once on the ledge, as you probably won't get punished for just one).
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I'll get to the good stuff, mainly Sheik. I don't use Sheik, or any characters considered even remotely high on the tier list for that matter, but the potential for her was too blatant not to test. I'm sure other characters like Villager can do this as well, but for now I only tested Sheik.
In the video (~0:26), I showed a potential way Sheik could attempt to ledgestall in this game, by combining this with an attack. Of course, this is slower, given that f-air has more landing than both light and heavy landing lag, but it kind of balances out. Mostly because of how safe and fast f-air is in general.
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Now I'll address the accidental input buffers on the ledge.
Basically, just don't do it too fast. Mr. Game & Watch is basically the only character (I could think of at least) who has a clear visual queue when and when not to try to attempt a ledge-hop.
![]()
(Can't input a 'let-go' option)
![]()
(Earliest frame you're allowed to let go of the ledge)
This is actually a really minor problem, but I thought it was worth mentioning. It becomes second nature once you know the timing. Do I recommend practicing with G&W? Not really. You could probably just look at his ledge grab animation once and know how fast you should be doing your inputs, but I guess if it REALLY DOES bother you that much, go ahead.
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I was torn between posting this here, and in the Sheik discussion. I don't like doing multi-community posts, as it's pretty much spam, so I thought I'd just play it safe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright, so the idea to test this came in mind when I kept seeing players try to refresh ledge invincibility with the most obnoxious ways possible. Made me think of the way to do it, but I haven't seen this anywhere, so I thought I might want to make a post about it.
Take the word "Planking" with a grain of salt, it's not really planking, but it would remind you of planking if you looked at it. It's done by pressing down while holding the ledge (not away, as this is descends you slower, not putting you into fast-fall automatically), and you jump at the according height to make you land on stage in a much safer way (this is different from ledge-hopping). After this, you just do the inputs to dash off-stage and grab the ledge as soon as you land.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well first I'll address why this isn't very useful.
1. You need to land in the exact spot at the ledge (very close to it), to where when you dash, you don't do an on-stage dash. It makes things much slower, and much more punishable if it isn't done as quick as possible.
2. The inputs are very easy to screw up, and in different ways.
- If you try too hard not to do an on-stage dash (mentioned in #1), you'll likely end up fast falling down. This puts you in a HORRIBLE position, as for one, if your recovery isn't good, you're pretty much dead, and if it is, good you're still open to a ledge punish, which can result in deaths at 60 on characters with GOOD recoveries.
- If you do the inputs too fast, you do a ledge-hop instead, which should be self-explanatory to why that's a bad thing.
(I'll insert a remedy to this later in the post).
3. Even if you do it fast enough, this game has high rewards for on-stage edgeguards, and chars like Pikachu can easily snipe you off the ledge, or just use disjoints to knock you off, like Marth.
4. It doesn't even work properly for a lot of characters, as their jump ascent and fall speeds are just too slow to make it fast. In Ganon's case, he needs to be frame-perfect just to ledge-hop NORMALLY.
5. Typically is a sign that you're giving up stage control, or have already lost it.
Why this COULD be useful. (Ranging from partially - extremely situational events)
1. Well, planking. For some characters, this is extremely safe when combined with an attack (another thing I'll address later) with low landing lag/start-up.
2. Edge-guard situation on someone who doesn't have a (reliable, Bowser's can potentially be an example, but it's still a stretch) hitbox on their recovery, and you're regrabbing hoping to get the trump. (this is admittedly a stupid reason because they can just buffer a get-up option once they see you doing it and not get trumped)
3. Simply needing to quickly refresh ledge invincibility to get more time to think (just as a quick thing to pull out once on the ledge, as you probably won't get punished for just one).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll get to the good stuff, mainly Sheik. I don't use Sheik, or any characters considered even remotely high on the tier list for that matter, but the potential for her was too blatant not to test. I'm sure other characters like Villager can do this as well, but for now I only tested Sheik.
In the video (~0:26), I showed a potential way Sheik could attempt to ledgestall in this game, by combining this with an attack. Of course, this is slower, given that f-air has more landing than both light and heavy landing lag, but it kind of balances out. Mostly because of how safe and fast f-air is in general.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I'll address the accidental input buffers on the ledge.
Basically, just don't do it too fast. Mr. Game & Watch is basically the only character (I could think of at least) who has a clear visual queue when and when not to try to attempt a ledge-hop.
(Can't input a 'let-go' option)
(Earliest frame you're allowed to let go of the ledge)
This is actually a really minor problem, but I thought it was worth mentioning. It becomes second nature once you know the timing. Do I recommend practicing with G&W? Not really. You could probably just look at his ledge grab animation once and know how fast you should be doing your inputs, but I guess if it REALLY DOES bother you that much, go ahead.
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I was torn between posting this here, and in the Sheik discussion. I don't like doing multi-community posts, as it's pretty much spam, so I thought I'd just play it safe.
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