Pk Trouble

[Flaminghorse]

This problem constantly comes up and gets to be really annoying, after I have been knocked off the stage PK freeze comes out too often rather than PK thunder is it something about the gamecube controller that makes this happen I've tried using different ones but it seems to happen a lot even when I try to use Thunder to attack I use freeze and leave myself wide open, would buying a classic controller really help to end this problem or is it something only I'm experiencing?

 

[Tyr_03]

I've noticed this happening to me once in a while too. I think it may have something to do with the timing of when you're pressing B not quite coinciding with up on the analog. If you think of it like doing a smash attack only with the B button you should get it everytime. That pretty much solved it for me. And no don't buy a classic controller. Gamecube controller is better all around. Also you can try B-sticking and see if that works for you.

 

[TechnoMonster]

I'm gonna have to go with just you :/. You could use the B-stick to do it more consistently if you're really having trouble. I've done PK freeze by accident with some PK fires that I was trying to get tricky with, but never with PK thunder unless I clearly made a mistake.

 

[memphischains]

That's weird, I have never had this trouble.

As an idea for you guys though, is to use PK Thunder as few times as you can.

The way I play my Lucas is using PK Thunder as a general move more than a recovery, an edge gaurd to be more specific. Stand in the edge of the stage and attempt to PK Thunder 2 yourself in the middle of the stage, and catch your opponent in the Thunder's movements. If you use this method, and you use PK Freeze instead, then there shouldn't be any issue.

I always try and Zap Jump -> Psi Magnet back as much as possible because it is more difficult to gimp, while just hitting an attack on my PK Thunder ruins my recovery. It also catches your opponent off gaurd. They are usually like WTF?! HAX. I respond yes, I am hack. It makes you look like you know what your doing.

 

[Tyr_03]

to Memphischains: Actually Zap jump and magnet pull are really obvious moves that can easily be punished. If your PK Thunder is getting gimped it's because you're using it at obvious times and not using it correctly. Your opponent is only going to be caught off guard by zap jumping and magnet pulling the first few times. They will then proceed to anticipate it and take advantage of your limited control. Just because moves like PK Thunder are difficult to use well doesn't mean you should avoid using them. Just get better at it.

 

[memphischains]

to Memphischains: Actually Zap jump and magnet pull are really obvious moves that can easily be punished. If your PK Thunder is getting gimped it's because you're using it at obvious times and not using it correctly. Your opponent is only going to be caught off guard by zap jumping and magnet pulling the first few times. They will then proceed to anticipate it and take advantage of your limited control. Just because moves like PK Thunder are difficult to use well doesn't mean you should avoid using them. Just get better at it.

I'm acually a good Lucas / Ness user, and I have no probalems with PK Thunder at all. I acually use the move very effectively. I don't avoid using, I just perfer using the Zap Pull as a method of recovery because it has been more effective in the past and it is harder to gimp.

Also, the Zap Pull isn't obvious at all if your using it right. I think your the one that maybe needs some work, no offence or anything. This could have to do with the different play styles we play agianst, or the people for that matter, but it doesn't mean that I'm bad or anything.

The people I play have just abused the tactic of acually hitting my PK Thunder, so I have found that I need to Zup Pull to recover. I also haven't had an issue with its predictability, nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Powda]

I used to do this alot because I would b-stick it. I recommend NOT b-sticking it. Because if you move just slightly diagnol it will PK freeze...not only that but zap jump you backwards....or rather push you backwards like when you zap jump making it even harder to recover.

 

[Tyr_03]

memphischains: maybe your friends haven't noticed that the zap jump sends Lucas the exact same distance at the exact same speed everytime...It's easy to edgeguard. If your PK Thunder is getting gimped it's because you're being predictable with it. Enemy attacks can only cancel your thunder if they hit the head of it. It's not that difficult to time it and direct your thunder so that you tail whip them instead. In addition the tether recovery is much safer than zap jump or magnet pull. There is never a case when you NEED the zap jump or magnet pull to recover either. PK Thunder is simply a better option. I cannot say what calibur player you are but I think you will find that as the competitive scene developes that the zap jump and magnet pull will become less viable options as opponents begin to understand and predict how it works. Just because something is glitchy and weird does not necesarily make it good. I will add that I'm perfectly capable of both the zap jump and magnet pull and find them inferior so I rarely use them.

 

[memphischains]

memphischains: maybe your friends haven't noticed that the zap jump sends Lucas the exact same distance at the exact same speed everytime...It's easy to edgeguard. If your PK Thunder is getting gimped it's because you're being predictable with it. Enemy attacks can only cancel your thunder if they hit the head of it. It's not that difficult to time it and direct your thunder so that you tail whip them instead. In addition the tether recovery is much safer than zap jump or magnet pull. There is never a case when you NEED the zap jump or magnet pull to recover either. PK Thunder is simply a better option. I cannot say what calibur player you are but I think you will find that as the competitive scene developes that the zap jump and magnet pull will become less viable options as opponents begin to understand and predict how it works. Just because something is glitchy and weird does not necesarily make it good. I will add that I'm perfectly capable of both the zap jump and magnet pull and find them inferior so I rarely use them.

I'm not going to argue about this, its a choice in play style based on region and players in the area. I appriciate the way you play so appriciate mine.

There is no reason to hate / doubt on a way I choose to recover, my skill and my friend's intellegence.

 

[jacer]

also you could try using the tether... is a lot longer thatn you would think... just go use it and youll see what i mean

 

[Levitas]

Tyr: the zap jump is good. a double jump has the same problems as a zap jump in terms of predictability in height, and the zap jump at least affords a great deal of height. Especially if they follow you off for edgeguarding, and you're suddenly a mile above them. Just like PKT2, it's possible to use zap jumping poorly, so predictability is a factor.

 

[Powda]

In my experience being able to predict the zap jump doesn't help the opponent in any situation since u are so far out of reach. Usually I only zap jump if I am so far below the map I'll die and in that case it's a last option, and other is if a player like marth is chasing me off the edge in which case I blast not only higher above him but closer to the stage than him.

In other words anyone can know you might zap jump here or there but all characters have a limitation that prevents them from getting to where you will be if you use it at the right time. Same goes with any recovery move....

Not to mention the zap jump is fairly faster in ascension than most if not all recovery moves in the game. I mean you are down here and up there in a second.

 

[Tyr_03]

I agree if you're using it from far away from the stage. Obviously from that far away most characters are not going to be able to punish the zap jump. Using it when close to the stage however is risky and should only be used occasionally because they can and will punish you. Obviously it doesn't take long for an opponent to realize that everytime you recover you go lower on the stage and then zap jump. The magnet pull has the same problem. As soon as your opponent begins to recognize your pattern it can be easily punished. Using these techniques sparingly however I agree can be very useful to mix up your recovery patterns. My argument against memphischains was his suggestion that you use PK Thunder as little as possible. The main advantage that PK Thunder and the tether recovery have over zap jump and magnet pull is the ability to sweetspot the ledge. The invincibility frames given by these give them a strong advantage over the magnet pull and zap jump. As far as edgeguarders, there are a number of reverse edgeguarding techniques with PK Thunder which can turn the tables on edgeguarders if you know how to use them. I do apologize for reacting so negatively to memphischains and against zap jumping and magnet pulling in general. I'm often very frustrated by the seeming ignorance of many Lucas players on the full usefulness of PK Thunder. I don't deny that zap jumping and magnet pulling can be very useful when used in certain situations but I firmly believe that in most cases when recovering, the tether recovery and PK Thunder are better options.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

I've noticed this happening to me once in a while too. I think it may have something to do with the timing of when you're pressing B not quite coinciding with up on the analog. If you think of it like doing a smash attack only with the B button you should get it everytime. That pretty much solved it for me. And no don't buy a classic controller. Gamecube controller is better all around. Also you can try B-sticking and see if that works for you.

ya i know that was kinda long ago, but i strongly disagree with that second to last sentence. i use the classic controller and i find it far better then a gamecube controller. it just can take some getting used to. plus the classic controller has bigger buttons, so in my experience it makes it easier to zap jump and do stuff like changing into ZSS with the rapid /\ \/ /\ taunts, and snake's/wolf's/falco's/fox's special taunts, etc. it has its advantages and disadvantages, but it is no worse then the gamecube controller. i suppose it is just a matter of personal preference.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

sorry double post... my computer sucks...

 

[Tyr_03]

Meh yeah I'm horribly biased in favour of the GC controller. I just love it's layout. Does anyone know if it's possible to do smash DI on classic controller though? Things like that might kind of hamper its competitive use.