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PK Freeze vs. PK Thunder

Aqueus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
46
Location
Arizona
Am I missing something? I keep seeing all of these videos (in the Sticky) and all of the Lucas users seem to try and punish people who are at a 45-degree angle from them with a PK Freeze, every time the attack misses, and every time they are punished for it.

My question is: Why? PK Freeze is a horrible move, right? It comes out quick, but is relatively unpredictable and takes too long to generate a big enough hitbox to freeze with regularity. Also, it freezes. This sends your opponent upward for the most part, giving them even more breathing room for recovery or whathaveyou.

Wouldn't a better alternative be to use PK Thunder? If you PK Thunder and circle it in the trajectory they are going to fall, with some room for error (remember they can dodge and account for that), they'll have to DI away from it, or suffer a bit more damage with increased knockback (I still can't figure out why randomly the Thunder will knock people much farther away than the 'combo' portion of the move).

If you're afraid of suffering punishment then guide the Thunder into the ground. It stays out a surprisingly long amount of time, so you can continue to combo people with it. Generally when you perform the move everyone is trying to get closer to you than to avoid the move in general, so you can use this mindset to your advantage: Circle the Thunder in their trajectory toward you and guide it back toward you, then into the ground to cancel, if necessary.

tl;dr version: PK Freeze = Fail; PK Thunder = Win! Stop using PK Freeze, you keep getting hit because of it, it doesn't kill people (PK Thunder doesn't either, but at least it hits consistently), and even if it DOES hit it only gives them more room for error in recovery.
 

Maraphy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
750
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
NNID
Marraph
3DS FC
3780-9036-1349
People use it more because it's fast. And when you get an opponent into the air, Lucas can do nasty things to them.
 

Aqueus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
46
Location
Arizona
But you can't... the move sends them up... If you've spent enough time to develop the hitbox (held the button longer) then they are a sufficient distance from you. I've been able to hit novices, but anyone who knows what an Air Dodge is never gets hit. PK Thunder works around the Air Dodge by you circling the thing around where they will finish their dodge, or where they'll approach you.

Still can't fathom using Freeze over Thunder... maybe it was better in Mother 3...
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
PK Thunder is waaaay better than PK Freeze. Many of those vids are from when the game had first come out and people were probably just trying out moves.
 

JJ259

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
95
Location
Arizona Ice Tea
In 1v1s the only way I can really see PK freeze being useful is when the person is much more horizontally away from the stage rather than basically anything more than a 30 degree angle. PK freeze can get some horizontal distance and if you can get the hit box big enough it's quite possible to set people up for nice follow ups while they're flying frozen. Other than that, it's definitely better to use PK thunder because you can both maneuver it a lot better and you can have multiple attempts to hit people if they do air dodge.
 

GofG

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
2,001
Location
Raleigh, NC
PK Thunder is better than PK Freeze is nearly every aspect. Don't ever use PK Freeze unless you can see them hitting the ceiling.
 
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