Pivot aerials and off-stage counter

[Toe]

I've been working a lot on my pivot aerials but I am not actually sure of their use when in an actual match (specifically pivot fair and nair). I'm just looking for a simple explanation of when this should be used in matches. Any input is appreciated! Also, I was interested in the use of an off-stage counter. I've seen this work a few time and have done it occasionally myself but I never really seen it used consistently with some of the higher level marth players. Assuming this works it would help to cover a spacie wall riding or sweet spotting the ledge when preforming their Up-B and the rare occurrence of them being able to tech it. I've been able to do this a few times and successfully make it back to stage but currently don't have a way of fully testing it. I believe this could be useful on all stages but was also specially interested on doing it on battlefield where you would counter their Up-B hitting them to the underside of the lip of the stage leaving them in a tough spot to return to stage.

Beginning at about 0:45 you can see Reaper preform this sucessfully; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBc1jE_6woM

Also noticed this when viewing Reaper's videos and was wondering how reliable/useful what he does at 0:10 is; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WSEK_zRKVk

Thanks in advanced for everyone's comments and feedback!

Edit: Also looking for a way to practice grabbing ledge when shined by fox rather than being pushed off stage while not having someone to play with.

 

[Smashing Turnips]

As far as pivot aerials go, PPU has a whole video explaining shield stopping & using the technique as a pseudo pivot. You can search "PPUniversity Shield Stopping" on youtube to find his video. I recommend watching his other videos as they're just as helpful in understanding Marth.

Short explaination though, pivot aerials are amazing for catching poorly spaced attacks from an opponent.

Countering offstage is pretty risky, honestly, and is probably only good for showing off. If a Fox/Falco are in range to sweet spot the ledge, why not WD back to ledge? It's faster & safer.
Personally, I think it'd be good on FD/Yoshi's only, since you can ride the stage back up & not risk the chance of getting stuck under the stage like you might on BF/DL. You can explore it more, but that's my two cents on the matter.

For practicing the ledge grab after shine, you can try to freeze the hitbox for shine in 20XX? You can refer to this guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rwUdO9wy8oxXCCV9kHxT19vvN4ZRbsy3HS9iDFtEqZU/mobilebasic