Pit/Dark Pit Matchup Discussion Thread |#1|

[Xandercosm]

Pit and Dark pit seem to be a slightly sketchy MU for Mario. However, so far we haven't been able to come to a conclusion about it yet. Let's discuss what we think about it and then we can finalize the Pit/Dark Pit MU data on the "New Mario Matchup Thread". Just voice your opinion and once we come to a consensus, I will update the main thread.

Start by saying what you think the MU is for Mario, then explain why. Happy discussing!

 

[Sensane]

The Mario matchup for us (or for me at least) is worse than cancer.

Mario can just combo us into oblivion with anything he pleases. That and fireballs really hurt sometimes. Any Mario main would probably chuck fire at us from a fairly close range anyway if he plays aggressively, which is a large part of Mario's neutral anyway. Thus we have to be in the air for most of the fight, but Mario's air game is superior thanks to his n-air, b-air, and u-air. That, and unlike in most other matchups, where we can mix up our recovery with safety, our recovery is very unsafe against Mario. Recover horizontally? Caped. Recover below? B-air spiked. Mangle? I think this one speaks for itself.

Though we can fight on FD with fair safety, however. Pit's arrows are versatile enough to be used in air and not get punished with the cape. However, I wouldn't even bother playing Dark Pit against a Mario because arrows pretty much go straight and electroshock can have trouble effectively killing Mario thanks to his amazing air speed and medium weight, despite its early kill power. Though we can combo him pretty well and rack up a good 20% with a basic combo out of d-throw. It's not like Luigi where Pit has to be in the air to combo him at all. That, and our f-air, despite it's startup, is pretty effective against Mario's recovery. That, and Mario can have trouble landing, and that's where our u-smash and u-airs come in.

Overall:
(40:60)
(30:70)

 

[Xandercosm]

The Mario matchup for us (or for me at least) is worse than cancer.

Mario can just combo us into oblivion with anything he pleases. That and fireballs really hurt sometimes. Any Mario main would probably chuck fire at us from a fairly close range anyway if he plays aggressively, which is a large part of Mario's neutral anyway. Thus we have to be in the air for most of the fight, but Mario's air game is superior thanks to his n-air, b-air, and u-air. That, and unlike in most other matchups, where we can mix up our recovery with safety, our recovery is very unsafe against Mario. Recover horizontally? Caped. Recover below? B-air spiked. Mangle? I think this one speaks for itself.

Though we can fight on FD with fair safety, however. Pit's arrows are versatile enough to be used in air and not get punished with the cape. However, I wouldn't even bother playing Dark Pit against a Mario because arrows pretty much go straight and electroshock can have trouble effectively killing Mario thanks to his amazing air speed and medium weight, despite its early kill power. Though we can combo him pretty well and rack up a good 20% with a basic combo out of d-throw. It's not like Luigi where Pit has to be in the air to combo him at all. That, and our f-air, despite it's startup, is pretty effective against Mario's recovery. That, and Mario can have trouble landing, and that's where our u-smash and u-airs come in.

Overall:
(40:60)
(30:70)

Wow. I've never seen such an extreme opinion about the MU. Mario mains have always thought it was either even or in the favor of the Pits from what I know. I see what you are saying about the MU, but I feel that they have a lot of advantages over Mario too. Pit's arrows can handily gimp Mario's recovery and his long range is good at keeping Mario out.

I feel like I would have put the MU closer myself, but to each their own. Thanks for the input!

 

[MKchouy]

Can confirm as a dark pit player from the beginning of the game, I don't like the MU vs Mario.
Although Pit has disjoints, he is also a grab heavy character which means he has to get in on mario and mario is much better at close range. Sometimes I like to walk at Mario and f tilt to keep him out, but some of the disjoints are laggier than they appear. It is very easy for Mario to roll in and Up smash through pit's slow f tilt. Dark pit's arrows are almost useless vs Mario.

I feel Mario can do well with a defensive or aggro playstyle, where as for the pits, they have to play very defensive in this MU.

I think at the very top of the level, say Ally (Mario) vs Earth (Pit) it could be even, but otherwise I have always thought of this MU as 40:60 for Dark Pit at least.

(I've had characters like Mario, Luigi and Yoshi drop in with a nair against a charged Pit up smash and have it clank, very frustrating lol)

 

[Xandercosm]

Can confirm as a dark pit player from the beginning of the game, I don't like the MU vs Mario.
Although Pit has disjoints, he is also a grab heavy character which means he has to get in on mario and mario is much better at close range. Sometimes I like to walk at Mario and f tilt to keep him out, but some of the disjoints are laggier than they appear. It is very easy for Mario to roll in and Up smash through pit's slow f tilt. Dark pit's arrows are almost useless vs Mario.

I feel Mario can do well with a defensive or aggro playstyle, where as for the pits, they have to play very defensive in this MU.

I think at the very top of the level, say Ally (Mario) vs Earth (Pit) it could be even, but otherwise I have always thought of this MU as 40:60 for Dark Pit at least.

(I've had characters like Mario, Luigi and Yoshi drop in with a nair against a charged Pit up smash and have it clank, very frustrating lol)

Thanks for the input. I can see what you're saying. I definitely think Mario struggles with Pit/Dark Pit's long range, though. Other than that, I agree with most of what you said. It seems like Pit/Dark Pit mains generally think of MU as 60:40 in Mario's favor. I may have to change what we have it listed as on our MU thread.

 

[MKchouy]

Admittedly, I don't think I play the MU as optimal as it could be. I definitely don't think it's a 30:70 MU.

In the end I feel Mario has more playstyles available in the MU where the Pits are stuck in a very defensive playstyle.
For top players I'd say it's probably a 50:50, but if the Pits play aggro it can definitely seem 40:60.

Just wanted to clarify

 

[Xandercosm]

Admittedly, I don't think I play the MU as optimal as it could be. I definitely don't think it's a 30:70 MU.

In the end I feel Mario has more playstyles available in the MU where the Pits are stuck in a very defensive playstyle.
For top players I'd say it's probably a 50:50, but if the Pits play aggro it can definitely seem 40:60.

Just wanted to clarify

Well, it's great to hear the opinions of Pit/Dark Pit mains like yourself. If you ever get the chance, be sure to tell some other Pits about the discussion so they can join in too and give their opinions.