Pikachu's moveset tier list

[!Boom!]

People tend to think a move sucks when they suck with it :/ . Vice versa people who think a move is broken just because they cant get around it. With practice you can get around either. I'm not sure how a semi-spike isnt helpful, the only excuse it sounds like your giving is that its difficult to do consistently.

LOL, no. And tag, for like the billionth time, no one ever said that move was bad. Everyone just doesnt use it as much because they have their own playstyle. I dont use it because i prefer using nair. And when i played you, you never used it at all, just skull bash. See, lets put it this way. You use it a lot, so the move is good for your playstyle. I dont use it a lot because i know that movie isnt great for my playstyle.

 

[Tagxy]

To semi spike, you have to hit them with the tip.

This isn't very useful though. Even though it sends them out at a semi spike trajectory, the knock back is horrendous <_<

10char limit

 

[5ive]

Lol, at this guy IMPLYING I suck.
Don't go there. I can say a lot of things I've done for the Pika Boards defend myself, but that's a waste of time. On to the arguement.


Up air is not a reliable semi spike because...IT CANNOT GIMP.
Why edgeguard with some move that is "claimed to spike" where it cannot even kill at 170%.
I mean seriously.
You CAN use it as an edgeguard, but why? There are so many more options.

I'm sure the rest of the respected Pikachu Community can back me up on that.
If you still don't get what I'm saying, here is another overall statement.

You say that Up air is useful because it Semi Spikes.

It is not (in that retrospect), because it lacks the knock back in hitstun to potentially gimp an opponent.

Upair, however, is good for juggling, and for strings, because it has low knockback, and is fast.

And for you to imply that I suck; You are just making yourself look stupid.
Please TRY to build a reputation before you go on our boards trying to defend a topic that is obviously against your favor. Also, please to try to stay away from implying respected Pikachu Members "suck".

UP AIR DOES NOT SUCK. Up air is actually a staple in the Pikachu Metagame. It just sucks in the way you're intending to use it. Trust me on this one.

no jonz
Good day.

 

[Tagxy]

Oi, no need to get angry. I didn't say or imply you sucked. Although you did imply I did before : /. Anyways you're still incorrect about uair semi-spike atm, I might elaborate more later. And even though I guess I might have some ancient reputation, I dont really consider that to be a good barometer for determining pika's metagame. Anyways, feel free to avoid the semi-spike, I just wish people wouldnt poison the well so soon for others.

 

[5ive]

You cannot change the fact Up Air will not spike, and hence not a good edgeguard.

It is impossible to change the way people perceive the way up air as a spike, as you cannot change Brawl Physics.
You can however find different ways and uses to use upair off the stage.

 

[K 2]

Lol at this argument. Determined rookie vs. knowledgeable professional.

 

[Van Jones]

Wait, someone said uair sucks? Lolololololol

Uair is good for Juggling, NOT for spiking.

 

[RZA_Immortal Technique]

one of the best combos that i do are dgrab>nair>fair>down smash>then possibly thunder. its easiest in 0% and can hardly be stopped. it does an easy 50-60% real quick.

 

[M15t3R E]

Yeah, uair sends the opponent in a 45 degree angle downward, but its knockback doesn't allow it to gimp anyone.

It is still good off-stage if you use it, then QA to the edge, then prepare for a thunder edgeguard.

 

[RZA_Immortal Technique]

dgrab>nair=easy.25%

 

[Tagxy]

You cannot change the fact Up Air will not spike, and hence not a good edgeguard.

It is impossible to change the way people perceive the way up air as a spike, as you cannot change Brawl Physics.
You can however find different ways and uses to use upair off the stage.

I would suggest watching some melee pika videos. They made good use of the semi-spike. Yes, at its strongest it wasnt as good, but even its average hit was useful. And it doesnt have to gimp to be useful, as others in here have said. I agree that uair juggle is much better, but calling the semi-spike useless probably isnt a good idea at this point in time, that has little to do with brawl physics.

Lol at this argument. Determined rookie vs. knowledgeable professional.

Calm down. You're not in a position to make such a statement.

 

[Zylar]

LOL

Tagxy, you keep bringing up Meele.

This is Brawl. It'd different. What happenes in Brawl is different than Meele.

No matter how well of a semi-spike it was in Meele it is NOT in Brawl.

Yes, uair is useful. But for other attributes, not for its "spiking potential"

/thread

 

[Van Jones]

LOL

Tagxy, you keep bringing up Meele.

This is Brawl. It'd different. What happenes in Brawl is different than Meele.

No matter how well of a semi-spike it was in Meele it is NOT in Brawl.

Yes, uair is useful. But for other attributes, not for its "spiking potential"

/thread

^this

10bears

 

[ph00tbag]

LD PK says dash attack should be higher. (Against Toon Link, at least)

 

[Zylar]

Doing a move tier list per character would be WAY to big a project.

Unless, of course, ppl want 2 do it.

 

[Van Jones]

LD PK says dash attack should be higher. (Against Toon Link, at least)

? Uh, no. Dash attack is fine where it is. If you are playing against a Toon Link that know what he/she is doing, you will get punished hard for trying to dash attack. (ex: Projectile ****, grab, nair, etc.)

 

[K 2]

Calm down. You're not in a position to make such a statement.

I was laughing at how determined you are to prove yourself right, even though ALL of the experienced pika's tell you otherwise.

I'm not in a position to make such a statement? How so?

 

[K 2]

I would suggest watching some melee pika videos. They made good use of the semi-spike. Yes, at its strongest it wasnt as good, but even its average hit was useful. And it doesnt have to gimp to be useful, as others in here have said. I agree that uair juggle is much better, but calling the semi-spike useless probably isnt a good idea at this point in time, that has little to do with brawl physics.


Calm down. You're not in a position to make such a statement.

i wouldnt recommend landing on the edge with it if they can edgeguard it. Instead go a la melee style.

People used skull bash to recover even in melee, now its better.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=124086

LOL

Tagxy, you keep bringing up Melee.

This is Brawl. It'd different. What happenes in Brawl is different than Melee.

No matter how well of a semi-spike it was in Meele it is NOT in Brawl.

Yes, uair is useful. But for other attributes, not for its "spiking potential"

/thread

^^^ too true.

 

[Zylar]

Geez, ppl. Now he's gonna hate me for saying that.
BTW, I'm not hating on Meele. Just noting the differences.

Skull Bash imo is in its proper place in the move tier list. But that doesn't mean it's useless and stuff. But like I posted eariler, it's more of "a situational move. LOL"

Ah, G2G

 

[K 2]

I agree with the fact that Melee is completely different from brawl. If a move was good in melee, it might not be good in brawl.

SB has it uses: Recovering. Other than that, it doesn't have practical application in a fast-paced tournament setting. If you show me a few vids of a pika that uses and SB and wins tourneys, I'll be glad to recant my claim, but EVERYONE seems to agree that SB doesn't have many uses...

 

[Tagxy]

LOL

Tagxy, you keep bringing up Meele.

This is Brawl. It'd different. What happenes in Brawl is different than Meele.

No matter how well of a semi-spike it was in Meele it is NOT in Brawl.

Yes, uair is useful. But for other attributes, not for its "spiking potential"

/thread

Did you main pika in melee? If not how would you know what is or is not different? My point is people have this perception that the semi-spike in melee was something more powerful then it was. That's not the case, it was just that the pros used it incredibly effectively. Now thats not to say that the its as useful as it was in melee, but no ones tapped into its potential otherwise.

I was laughing at how determined you are to prove yourself right, even though ALL of the experienced pika's tell you otherwise.
Geez, ppl. Now he's gonna hate me for saying that.

BTW, I'm not hating on Meele. Just noting the differences.

Skull Bash imo is in its proper place in the move tier list. But that doesn't mean it's useless and stuff. But like I posted eariler, it's more of "a situational move. LOL"

The only move that belongs in low tier imo are dash and uair. Its hard to place it above some other moves though because theyre all so awesome.

I'm not in a position to make such a statement? How so?

Just on observation of when you joined.

Oh yeah, is there a thread on pikachus jab? Has anyone done testing on its trippyness?

 

[K 2]

Just on observation of when you joined.

Lol...Are you serious? Do you seriously judge people on join date? Just because I joined in the middle of '08, that doesn't mean I don't have much brawl/melee experience and knowledge. I've been playing smash for...5 years now? I can't remember.


I suppose you can make any statement you want, since your an '07 joiner...lolz

 

[Zylar]

Did you main pika in melee? If not how would you know what is or is not different? My point is people have this perception that the semi-spike in melee was something more powerful then it was. That's not the case, it was just that the pros used it incredibly effectively. Now thats not to say that the its as useful as it was in melee, but no ones tapped into its potential otherwise.
Yes, I did main pika in Meele, although I wasn't playing competatively. I've played Pika enough to know the differences between Meele and Brawl. I even mained pika back in Smash64.

My point is that althought I agree with everything you say Meele isn't a good example for supporting a claim for Brawl. Utilt may have not been truely unleashed, but you can't use Meele as support for it's value. You have ta use Brawl to support it's value since we are talking about Brawl's Pikachu.

Just on observation of when you joined.

While it is true that 08's TEND to have less experience than a 07'er doesn't invalidate their opinion or their knowledge.

I didn't even know about the 08 classism thing going on. No one has directed that towards me as of yet.

This is what people aught to do : Base the value of a post, NOT on the join date, but by how calmly (Subjective because this is the internet) and how intelligently someone presents their case. A sterotypical 08'er will waltz into a tier list thread and assume their experience validates their opinion, so you see them spamming, talk utter nonsense, etc.
However, what is to say that an 08'er even with limited experience is able to support their arguments?
BTW in threads that require experience, it is harder for the 08'ers to support their opinions becuase of their lack of experience. This still does not completely invalidate all 08'ers opinions.
Thus when in comes to the issue of MK's banishment, yes, those who have not participated in the competative scene very long will have a weaker opinion because of lack of experience.

Going back to the subject, (Sorta) you don't need much experience to see what MK's doing to the competative scene. There was once a time where I knew 13 competative players personally, and 10 quit brawl for lack of desire to go to tourneys because of facing tidal waves of MK's. (No they didn't go back to Meele either.)

Will you dismiss my opinion because of my join date? That is up to you. However, consider looking at the person for who they are based on how they write, instead of what they are based on when they've joined.

Edit: Oops sry tocador LOL

Oh yeah, is there a thread on pikachus jab? Has anyone done testing on its trippyness?

Umm, I believe somewhere there was tests done on its trippyness, or was it Pika's dtilt. Hmmm...

 

[K 2]

Totally agree with Zy.

Judge someone on the quality of their posts and how useful they are to a particular community, not by join date or post count.

Back to the topic? (To Tagxy) I believe we were discussing the uses of Skull Bash. As I said before, show me proof (preferably video proof) of someone who uses Skull Bash offensively and still wins tournaments. I *believe* your argument is invalid due to the lack of proof. As for my side of the claim, Anther wins plenty out tourneys without using SB.

 

[Tagxy]

Yes, I did main pika in Meele, although I wasn't playing competatively. I've played Pika enough to know the differences between Meele and Brawl. I even mained pika back in Smash64.

My point is that althought I agree with everything you say Meele isn't a good example for supporting a claim for Brawl. Utilt may have not been truely unleashed, but you can't use Meele as support for it's value. You have ta use Brawl to support it's value since we are talking about Brawl's Pikachu.

The games are different, but theres still a good amount of similarities. A lot of the tricks people see in brawl arent new, i.e. fair to dsmash/et al. I point to uair because even though its not exactly the same, its still similar.

Totally agree with Zy.

Judge someone on the quality of their posts and how useful they are to a particular community, not by join date or post count.

Back to the topic? (To Tagxy) I believe we were discussing the uses of Skull Bash. As I said before, show me proof (preferably video proof) of someone who uses Skull Bash offensively and still wins tournaments. I *believe* your argument is invalid due to the lack of proof. As for my side of the claim, Anther wins plenty out tourneys without using SB.

: / you were talking about experienced vs. rookie player by making a similar judgement, I just pointed it out.

As for skull bash, I didnt say it had to be an attack. Aerial movement is what I use it for most.

 

[5ive]

10oldpostshaiguys

 

[K 2]

: / you were talking about experienced vs. rookie player by making a similar judgement, I just pointed it out.

As for skull bash, I didnt say it had to be an attack. Aerial movement is what I use it for most.

Experienced player: 5ive, who has proven his knowledge and technical skill through useful posts on the pika boards and though his awesome tutorial.

Rookie: Some person who is never on the pika boards that suddenly claims "Skull Bash is a (bad grammar) amazing move"

I don't know that you're an experienced pika player, since you rarely post on these boards. I base people on what they post, and since I haven't seen you post anything contributing to pika's metagame, I assumed you are fairly new to pikachu.

Omg, we go though 8 pages of discussion/argument before you finally tell us its good for aerial movement? Argh...

Pika does fairly well in the air and he has decent aerial mobility. I suppose SB wouldn't hurt as for aerial movement, but I don't use SB and I don't feel anything is missing from my aerial game...

Edit: I'm still waiting for proof.

 

[M15t3R E]

I have hit with skullbash in the air while both my opponent and I were dropping down. That's about its only offensive use. And even then it can only be somewhat useful.
Then for recovering, it is a rare circumstance in which skullbash is necessary to get back to the ledge.

Uair sends the opponent in a semi-spike direction (45 degree angle downwards) just as it did in Melee, but the knockback is significantly less in Brawl and isn't gimping anyone.
As I previously stated, it can be used off-stage if you quickly follow-up by QA'ing to the ledge and preparing for a thunder edgeguard.

Hope that clears things up.

Anyone feel any of Pikachu's attacks are out of place? I am very flexible as far as changing the list.

 

[Zylar]

Umm, didn't you start a thread titled "Skull Bash is an amazing move" ?
Aerial movement...
Additional aerial movement is great an all but I hardly see it as amazing.

K 2, you gotta be patient, it has only been less than a day!

Why so srs ppl? Don't disregard his statements because you think he's wrong. Better to point out why if a person is wrong, or it's better to debate if it's a matter of opinion.

But I've tried to incorporate skull bash into my battles over thanksgiving break. On the stage it was utterly useless. I've used it, got a hit, only because they expected a smash rather than SB. Next 15 times, miss/powershield/dodge/etc. and then punishment. And these are with casual players, aka my family. (It's safer that way. )

Off the stage was the occasional pretend to aim for the ledge, go offstage with them to skull bash (I don't advise.), and recovery.


The list is now metaknight accurate imo.

 

[Tagxy]

Skull bash not necessarily necessary, but I like it cause I can have my QA closer to the stage, at least thats how I like it. Although it can depend on the pace im going at.

I don't know that you're an experienced pika player, since you rarely post on these boards. I base people on what they post, and since I haven't seen you post anything contributing to pika's metagame, I assumed you are fairly new to pikachu.

That's the reason I pointed out the date. If your going to judge people on posts, joined date can be relevant. Although I dont prefer that.

Omg, we go though 8 pages of discussion/argument before you finally tell us its good for aerial movement? Argh...

Pika does fairly well in the air and he has decent aerial mobility. I suppose SB wouldn't hurt as for aerial movement, but I don't use SB and I don't feel anything is missing from my aerial game...

Edit: I'm still waiting for proof.

I posted about the aerial before :/ . For instance, i was playing a ness yesterday, and after knocking me in the air he likes to uair for the kill. Rather then try and avoid it Ill skull bash out to the edge and save my jump for better recover.

 

[5ive]

I would suggest watching some melee pika videos. They made good use of the semi-spike. Yes, at its strongest it wasnt as good, but even its average hit was useful. And it doesnt have to gimp to be useful, as others in here have said. I agree that uair juggle is much better, but calling the semi-spike useless probably isnt a good idea at this point in time, that has little to do with brawl physics.

Up Air in melee was actually a viable gimp/spike.
Your argument makes no sense because you refute by using melee.

 

[PaintedGhost]

I lol'd sorry. As others have stated before: This is not melee, Uair cannot spike, it is an amazing juggling move, and Skull bash isn't a very good move (even for recovery (it’s spike bait)). I do believe, however, you're just trying to improve your post count, which, by the way, is spamming. Oh and i'm wondering how come you decided to make this thread about it's amazingness, as in, what inspired you to do so?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

ENOUGH arguing plz. it is absolutely pointless. i have played tag, and his sb use is interesting and doesnt seem to hurt his playstyle that much. and i might also add saying he just now came in and said it was awesome, tag has been around since the start of brawl, then he vanished during this boards dead period before krehz made the clan and rejuvinised the boards. he just finally came back. enough of this.

 

[fox219]

quick attack hardly even attacks!!!!!!!

 

[fox219]

I lol'd sorry. As others have stated before: This is not melee, Uair cannot spike, it is an amazing juggling move, and Skull bash isn't a very good move (even for recovery (it’s spike bait)). I do believe, however, you're just trying to improve your post count, which, by the way, is spamming. Oh and i'm wondering how come you decided to make this thread about it's amazingness, as in, what inspired you to do so?

how'd you become a smash debater?

 

[5ive]

quick attack hardly even attacks!!!!!!!

wow. Firstly, research up on QAC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md848biPmWA&fmt=18 (Check for the second technique)
That technique is one of the most versatile moves in the game.

Also, use edit to avoid the double post.
That is considered punishable with infraction.
And we applied to become debaters.

 

[Tagxy]

quick attack hardly even attacks!!!!!!!

LMAO good point. I wouldnt bother arguing anymore though, it's just 5ive and Painted who came in mid debate now.

Sorry stealth, I was just having some fun , didnt realize people were going to blow up at unconventional thoughts. I'll just stop reading the thread.

I lol'd sorry. As others have stated before: This is not melee, Uair cannot spike, it is an amazing juggling move, and Skull bash isn't a very good move (even for recovery (it’s spike bait)). I do believe, however, you're just trying to improve your post count, which, by the way, is spamming. Oh and i'm wondering how come you decided to make this thread about it's amazingness, as in, what inspired you to do so?

? Sorry, but this post doesnt make sense. If others said it before, then go back and reread the replies and dont repeat their posts.

 

[!Boom!]

I give up on this thread. I will never share my thoughts on skull bash, uair, or any other move of pikas ever again. Just because of this thread, the people in it, and that other thread about skull bash.

*Surrenders*

 

[PaintedGhost]

LMAO good point. I wouldnt bother arguing anymore though, it's just 5ive and Painted who came in mid debate now.

Sorry stealth, I was just having some fun , didnt realize people were going to blow up at unconventional thoughts. I'll just stop reading the thread.


? Sorry, but this post doesnt make sense. If others said it before, then go back and reread the replies and dont repeat their posts.

re-read it and answer my question, please.

 

[neji32]

Uair is a great ledge guard, it can be used as a semi spike if you hit them back ward, though it will never gimp anyone with it, it can confuse falcos to phantasming below the ledge or cause chars to up b under the ledge. Or it could lead into thunder. Uair is just a great ledge guarding move imo