Pika V. IC's Match-up Discussion

[RAT!]

Yo, my name's Rat!, and this is:
Pikachu V. Ice Climbers
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Introduction:​

I'd consider myself a pretty dedicated Pikachu main, I exclusively practice Pika, and don't ever switch characters for poor match-ups. There are just two that I find distinctly troublesome, and those are Ice Climbers and Jigglypuff. I think these match-ups require the Pika to significantly outplay its opponent.

I'm creating this thread to gather information on the Pika V. IC's match-up. I would appreciate any strategies, VOD's, opinions, what helps, info on why it's hard, anything on this less commonly seen match-up, to be posted here. Here's a short and amateurish guide on what I have come to learn about the MU:
*I will edit this as I obtain convincing information.

Goal:​

Spoiler

Obviously Sopo KO's are optimal, but often in neutral, the two of them are too much to take on when they're together, and a skillful Popo will be hard to KO cleanly once separated unlike Nana. So separating Nana and being able to take her out efficiently is crucial (surprise!). Together the IC's are almost immune to neutral air, since it has weaker knock back making the move unsafe at low %'s due to crouch canceling, and because it's unsafe on their two shields because they can easily shield-grab it. They can crouch-cancel d-smash a cross up n'air easily since the hit box comes out behind them first, and you really don't want to be shield-grabbed.

Separating Nana:​

Spoiler

Ways of separating the IC's effectively that are most safe are d-smash, b-throw Popo, f/b-throwing Nana into Popo, up-air, Thunder and d-tilt. These are moves that are more-or-less safe, obviously limited options for neutral game, so other moves could be used as openings arise. I'm pretty sure Pikachu's b-throw is vulnerable while in animation, and grabbing is pretty sketchy in general, so not ideal. Also it's important to understand your 4 different up-air hit boxes when trying to separate, as this is probably your most valuable tool for doing so. link to a PikaChad video explaining them here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEGJKphlc3U

Capitalize:​

Spoiler

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Once Nana is separated, it's important to use Pikachu's speed to get her off stage. Going for strong attacks right away is risky. Single IC's have chain grabs on Pikachu, meaning it's seldom worth it to get your opponent a free punish; Even if it means getting rid of Nana. Instead, carry Nana off stage using n'airs and tail-spikes. Then edge guard her easiest by tail-spiking her, n'airing her far enough, or grabbing ledge, stalling (QA-cancel stall) and waiting to take her jump away (see edge-guarding). If Single IC's are still a threat though and it's important to know how to control neutral well against IC's options. If going for Popo KO's when they are separated, the key is to box them both out to give yourself options. You want to place yourself between them and have Nana far enough to be able to go for her if you can't get at Popo. Or if punished by Popo, so your opponent can't extend it into a punish with both IC's, since Nana will take her time getting back.

Good Neutral against IC's:​

Spoiler

IC's can out-space Pika with many of their moves, Ice blocks are often just plain better projectiles that Thunder Jolt, and Popo can be a pain to edge-guard. But Pika has some tools still. Up-smash is always good to get on any floaty character, and when they're together, Thunder can be very hectic for IC's. I think it's best to go for Popo with Thunder, as Nana will usually just DI into it anyway. You can platform camp IC's with Thunder Jolt as they will most likely be below looking for grabs. Shield-drop up-air can be useful on platforms and for splitting them up.

Edge-Guarding:​

Spoiler

Both IC's​

More often than not they will be spread out trying to recover too much to consider them one item. They have a lot of options recovering with scrawl hammer together near the stage, because of the height and the hit boxes are better than when separated. Take this opportunity to take out individual IC's before they can collect and scrawl. Even if you can't set up a tail-spike, putting IC's in hit-stun prevents them from teleporting Nana. If they belay to recover, punish either IC depending on the situation, but be cautious of the hit-box on Nana that stays out very long as she's rising.

Sopo​

Try to predict early whether the climber will land on stage or go for ledge, you'll want to stay in front of it while it's landing, as the last hit box of scrawl hammer comes out behind Popo (the last swing's a dud) and punish the landing with up-smash or f-smash depending on if up-smash will kill (65-80% depending on stage). Be ready to crouch cancel the scrawl hammer. If going for the ledge or is near enough, you can refresh invincibility and n'air or reverse tail-spike (riskier). Or just hold ledge since there is ending lag to the scrawl and they often can't grab until it's too late. Trying to tail-spike is tricky, since IC's have good aerial mobility, but keeping them in front of Pika will bear the most options.

Hang in there!:
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Spoiler

I don't believe the match up has to be as bad as it seems. Pikachu as a character has a lot of potential, and is EXTREMELY underrepresented in the current meta. I think with more formed, clear, and concise gathered knowledge, there is still hope for the little guy. I'm not and expert or even all that good at Pikachu or melee as a whole, so I'm relying on y'all to help me gather some more updated knowledge on this.

Video References:​

Spoiler

Here are videos I know of for Pika V. IC's. Please feel free to comment on what you see or add to these.

(April, 2016) Pound 2016 - Chudat V. Axe

(Aug,2015) MNM 40 - Wobbles V. Axe

Game 3 (Pika)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LmRTL_OlU4#t=7m43s


(Nov, 2014) Forte 2 - Wobbles V. Axe

(Aug) Zenith 2014 - Nintendude V. Axe

(Pika wobbling confirmed safe )

(Apr, 2013) KoC2 - Fly V. Axe

Game 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9phStuj16g#t=10m38s
Game 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9phStuj16g#t=20m12s

(May) Zenith 2011 - Chudat V. Axe