"Why are the Macs SideB-ing offstage again?"
Concept: Abusing intangibility to bypass/counter moves that would otherwise require defensive measure with less than favorable frame data (ie, shield into dash attack, forward roll, etc). grounded Jolt Haymaker has full intangibility on startup from frame 1 to frame 4- then partial intangibility (legs are intangible while upperbody is vulnerable) from frames 5 to frame 14. (if you use the early hitbox it is frames 5 to frame 8- but don't use that).
Part 1 - VS edge camping tether grabbers
When using dtilt- you should be spacing it out accordingly so that even regular standing grabs can't reach you as a punish.
But enter tether grabs, whose range will be the end to your best shield tapping tool. Dtilt does not have a frame advantage so one would have to use it sparingly and smartly to avoid a tether grab OOS punish.
Let me paint out a situation for you that I'm sure many have you experience on a daily basis.
Olimar is at dtilt to up b kill %. But now he is just trying to bthrow fish.
You attempt a well-spaced dtilt in order shield pressure and hopefully bait a roll or other attack- or simply hope to connect the dtilt for a kill confirm.
Unfortunately, Olimar opts for the shield grab to punish you. As you can see- he is already starting his grab while Mac is still recovering from dtilts endlag.
So what happens to Mac now? He dies. Lol. but against other characters with slower tethers- he can phase through them to either escape or kill them.
Remember that last picture where Olimar is already starting a shield grab? Well with Toon Link here whose grab is 2 frames slower than Oli's- Mac can phase through the tether. Once again go for an early suicide kill (95% is nice and early) or escape by sideb-ing the other direction.
The following are other grabs you can phase through. Olimar and Lucas have grabs that are just fast enough to not make this work however.
Remember- you can choose to escape by just sideb-ing the other way. You can at least whittle down their shield slowly with dtilt and repeat this should they insist on edge camping.
Special case for ZSS and Samus where their grab hitbox is big enough to grab Mac while he is in the partial intangible state. This requires a pivot Jolt Haymaker (PJH)- the input is simple: sideb backwards then forwards during the startup animation. Doing this puts Mac at a higher position while still being distant enough to make the jump over the grab.
Part 2 - Frame Advantage over projectiles
Okay- now that we can deal with those slightly annoying situation. What about with other characters who also edge camp- instead of tether grabs simply bait and zone with projectiles? Same thing really.. just phase through their projectile and hit them while they are still in endlag. This is frame advantage. Remember: when the opponent is at the edge- they are limiting their options and you are in control. Play patiently and use mac's moves smartly.
Note I show him suiciding to get the kill- but only cuz its cool and specific to Cloud. You can do any other listed move from a survivable distance and from anywhere on the stage not just at the edge.
Only attempt this with regular neutral B- and ONLY this distance at the furthest. Otherwise you risk the frame advantage
Please be aware of his Aura- 80% is about as big as the phase allows before this sphere's hitbox would touch Mac in his partial state.
I hate ROB but at least Gyro gets frame advantage for this.
Im pretty sure no one uses this move anyway
Remember the trailer?
Enough pictures for now. The rest of the moves will be listed as a text list.
There will be 2 different categories for projectiles.
Partial - the height and partial intangible midair state is all thats needed to avoid the attack. So just side b as soon as you see the move start. These are the easiest.
Startup - meaning that the full intangibility state in the startup animation is needed to phase the hitbox. Timing is key
Partial
- Fireball- - Fireball
- - Arrow
- - Laser, Whip
- - PK Fire
- - Rapid Jabbing Luma
- - Full/Single Needle
- - Super Missile
- - Gyro, Weak Laser (though ROB can counter it by shorthop then aim it down- itll catch the vulnerable upperbody) Strong Laser (as long as your already at top height and not still rising out of the startup), Fsmash
- - Arc Fire
- - Clay Disc, Fsmash (if you time it right)
- - Uppercut Slash
- - Laser (if you can react that fast..window is very small to keep frame advantage)
- - Laser
- - Thunder Jolt (well if it doesn't catch you on the rising arc)
- - Water Shuriken (small window..)
- - Lloid Rocket (tight window..but doable)
- - Pill (but just like Pikachu-- the bouncing arc can catch you)
- - Cherry, Strawberry, Orange, Apple (see Pika and Doc), Melon, Galaga, Key. (so just not the bell)
- - Uncharged Fsmash
- - PK Fire
- - Uncharged Shot (with uncharged bite)
- - Cannonball
- - Fire Breath
- - Uncharged Aura Sphere, Full Aura Sphere 70%
- - Neutral B (suicide only as a early edge kill- and to describe the distance needed- otherwise it is safe to perform if anywhere else on stage)
- - Full Charge Fsmash
- - Full Dragon Shot (with uncharged bite)
- - Full Aura Sphere 80% (strict timing- don't even)
So if a character or move is not listed- don't try to contest it with JH. (Toon/Link's are all too fast, and item throws are too fast as well like Banana, Metal Blade, Turnip, etc.)
Part 3 - Shield Drop into Phase
This is a very simple concept- in fact its the very same concept as this thread for "Tanking". In essence, you shield a multi hit move- drop shield in between hits- and phase the next hitbox. Coincidentally- the moves listed in the Tanking thread are also same moves possible for this too (excluding the Perfect Shield ones). Why are they the same? Its just the frame data being the same.
To give you the gist of the tech, here are some pictures. Please refer to the thread for the full list of moves.
Step 1- Shield a multi hit move like ZSS Fsmash
Step 2- Drop Shield and P H A S E
Though tbh, usmash is typically better anyhow for its killing potential and it being safe to use anywhere on stage. The only advantage this might have over Tanking is the low% combo potential especially into a KO Punch. Or if for some reason you have an item in your hand- where the usmash will not come out.
Part 4 : Pivot Phase Punish
Use a Pivot Jolt Haymaker (PJH) (
+ > ) to punish moves that are telegraphed and travel a set path. Why use this over other options? This is frame 1 intangibility, can be done out of a dash, and can be done against command grabs too because intangibility is better than shielding. This way Mac doesn't have to worry too much about positioning and the two moves will coincide with each other.
Wow cool move Pac Man. Too bad its T E L E G R A P H E D
Caught.
A challenger appears
"Nothing personnel kid"
Works not just on horizontal attacks, but vertical attacks too.
Any move easily telegraphed- in that the move will send its user in a specific direction to where we expect its destination. Move must also be quick enough that Mac will move alongside it.
Part 5 - Covering Ledge Get Up Options with PJH
Self-explanatory.
Do whatever you want Doc
Ledge Get up Attack
B O P P E D
Ledge get up Jump
Ledge get up Roll - delayed attack for obvious reason
Even chars tryna drop then attack to land on stage
Part 6 - Phase Out Of Perfect Shield (POOPS)
POOPS. Nice name, right?
Advantage over Rising Uppercut? Well, sure Rising Uppercut has frame 1 intangibility too, its hitbox is super weak (3% damage) and will clank most things - making it less of a punish but instead a reset. That of course has its merits, but this simply a demonstration of application.
Perfect Shield- now lets examine JH vs RU
Winning trade- weak asf 1% to a meaty 14%
While here we have a clank. Which is also not too bad if you buffer something out of it at least.
Similar situation here with Shulk's dsmash. Its Clank or Jank- you choose.
And sometimes Rising Uppercut just doesn't have the range- especially after shield pushback.
Or in some cases, Rising Uppercut just comes out too quick
Rising Uppercut would have just gone straight up- before PIkachu could do his second QA
I literally developed this entire tech so I could end it off with POOPS
P O O P S
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