People try to recover late?

[ruhtraeel]

Alright so I realized watching Gen2 crews first stock Mango vs PP, for example, and PP got knocked off really far. One thing that confuses me is why people, if they are struggling to get enough distance to even have a chance of grabbing the ledge, like to wait until they are level with the stage and then try to reach it. It usually goes short.

I think it's because of Falco/Fox's air speed, because if you try to DI towards the stage while falling, you end up covering less distance than if you pressed jump as soon as you were out of hitstun and then up-B'ed diagonally towards the stage at the top of your double jump. The distance covered if you do that vs. if you try to fall DI towards the stage is longer, I think. I'm not 100% sure though.


Thoughts?

 

[FrootLoop]

I thought his fall after his sideB/upB was faster than his regular fall.

 

[Bones0]

I'm unsure of the specifics behind fall speeds, though I would think they are the same before and after Up-B and Side-B. Although, Side-B makes you lose all of your horizontal momentum, so using that at the end definitely makes sense (same as Sheik's/Zelda's Up-B). I think the most common logic between waiting to use your Up-B is you become less predictable and you have many more options to work with. You could angle any number of heights to avoid their attacks, as well as come from below the stage to tech. If you up-B high above the ledge/stage, they have more time to react to where you are, and you have no effective ways to throw off their aim/timing other than to drift a little to the left and right or mix in fast falls with no fast falls.

 

[ruhtraeel]

I'm unsure of the specifics behind fall speeds, though I would think they are the same before and after Up-B and Side-B. Although, Side-B makes you lose all of your horizontal momentum, so using that at the end definitely makes sense (same as Sheik's/Zelda's Up-B). I think the most common logic between waiting to use your Up-B is you become less predictable and you have many more options to work with. You could angle any number of heights to avoid their attacks, as well as come from below the stage to tech. If you up-B high above the ledge/stage, they have more time to react to where you are, and you have no effective ways to throw off their aim/timing other than to drift a little to the left and right or mix in fast falls with no fast falls.

Yeah that's a given, if you knew you were going to make it back, you would definitely go low to have more options. But if you were struggling just to get enough distance, I'm about 70% positive that using your up-B at your highest point will cover more distance.

I also think it may have something to do with trying to DI/drift towards right after getting knocked off than quickly slowing your backwards momentum with up-B and then trying to drift the rest of the distance.

 

[Bones0]

No, why would up-Bing earlier gain more distance? You can gain free fall distance for 2 seconds, gain your up-B distance, the gain free fall distance for 2 more seconds, or you can gain your up-B distance followed by 4 seconds of free fall distance. You're spending the same amount of time free falling and up-Bing.

Just test it yourself on a stage. Roll to the edge of FD, double jump straight up, then see how far you can get with free falling forward first and Up-Bing second, then vice versa.

 

[ruhtraeel]

No, why would up-Bing earlier gain more distance? You can gain free fall distance for 2 seconds, gain your up-B distance, the gain free fall distance for 2 more seconds, or you can gain your up-B distance followed by 4 seconds of free fall distance. You're spending the same amount of time free falling and up-Bing.

Just test it yourself on a stage. Roll to the edge of FD, double jump straight up, then see how far you can get with free falling forward first and Up-Bing second, then vice versa.

I don't think that's a good way of testing it because you aren't being sent back, you're just going straight up.

Regardless, I will experiment with this with actual DI when I get hit.

 

[Bones0]

You aren't being sent back once you start drifting back to the stage either... My point is simply that unless the Up-B alters your fall speed or ability to drift sideways, it won't make a difference when you use it (distance-wise).