Peeking at your opponents controller?

[vegeta18]

Anyone know some good uses for this technique and some good times to use it? its considered a dirty strategy by many but who cares this is a competitive scene and we do what it takes to win as long as its in the rules.

 

[Wintropy]

Never. If you have to take your attention off the match to see what your opponent is doing, you open yourself up for punishment, and you deserve that punishment.

It's not a dirty strategy, it's just not a good idea. I've never heard of anybody doing it.

 

[Jeronado]

I've heard of people doing this to check DI for follow-ups. That's about it. If it works it works, I personally don't see a problem with it although other people might.

 

[pershona]

I'm pretty sure Hungrybox does this sometimes to see how they DI UThrow, it's not unfair imo.

 

[Masonomace]

I don't look at their controller, but I do listen to their controller's noises.

Separate example: you get a grab but choose to pummel for extra credit damage (try to only do this at mid-high to high percents), then they mash buttons or roll their joystick loud enough that you catch on quickly & stop pummeling to proceed with your throw.

The goal is to make your opponent exert themselves. Make them use a lot of effort to escape grabs but tack on at least one pummel & listen for the mashing attempt. If they try mashing, then use your throw & they may be slow at preparing their survival DI.

Other factors go into it, like whether the throw is weight-dependent, or if your character's throw has a lot of frame advantage to the point that you can look at their controller to see where they're going to DI towards.

 

[Pazx]

I do it sometimes when I get a grab, because I listen to music when I play and I want to see if they're mashing or not.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

If you take your eyes off of the screen for a second, you're going to have a bad time. The only time it would even make sense would be to check your opponent's DI, like for Melee Puff's uthrow Rest, but I can't think of any examples in Smash 4 where this would even be useful.

 

[FSLink]

I see we don't have many traditional fighting game fans here, since it's actually an old strategy used back in the arcade days for Street Fighter and such and can still be seen today.

It can be used in Smash to follow DI or mash attempts, but it's a lot more difficult than a traditional fighting game since the Gamecube pad is harder to see than an arcade stick.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Outside of checking for DI or catching a recovery I don't see many applications.....
Everything else can be covered by a good reaction when looking at the screen.

 

[Infinite901]

Doesnt ESAM sometimes do this for throw followups into Thunder?

 

[ChefKef]

What I thought of for why it would be a bad idea. Watch playercam.

 

[John12346]

I would think the most optimal use of sneaking a peek at the opponent's controller is to see which way they tech, or which option they choose to take if they miss that tech.

In addition, there are plenty of moments where sound cues from the opponent's controller come in handy. As mentioned already, listening for the opponent mashing while pummeling can help you to decide whether to continue pummeling or throw them, to maximize damage.

When they're on the ledge, you can also listen for the 'click' of the shield button if they're planning to roll back onto the stage, for example.

 

[Splebel]

Note that none of this stuff works if your opponents decide to use a different controller.

 

[DunnoBro]

Not really worth it in this game the same way it is in melee due to more space being covered while in hitstun generally, another option in airdodging, and less likelihood of securing a stock based off DI. It's worth it in melee for some scenarios due to super fast moves disallowing the ability to react, but in general this game lets you react.

ZeRo allegedly controller watches for ledge get-ups, though. That's the only scenario I could see it be worth doing, too.

 

[Raijinken]

Auditory queues as mentioned by John12346 are far more useful than attempting to glance at your opponent's hands and make sense of what they're doing. Unless you're specifically trying to learn the game and someone is showing you how to do a technique, obviously.

It's not like screen-looking in a splitscreen shooter. It's high risk due to taking your attention from the game, and negligible reward.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Honestly taking your eyes off your opponent is one thing but looking away from the entire game itself (even for just a second) is a horrible idea in my opinion.

I agree with the above posts that auditory queues is a much better method to effectively "read" your opponent.

 

[Jamble]

Please take your attention off the screen to peek at my inputs. I'll take the free stock.

 

[HoSmash4]

The only situation I do this is to see how fast the opponent mashes out of my grabs so I know whether to do 2 pummels or one depending on my opponent

 

[Ravine]

I doubt this can be a legitimate tactic when used against women who like to wear low cut tank tops.
Your move, Vegeta18.

 

[LightLV]

I recall a top player in Melee (Armada?) claiming that if he feels like his opponent is in his head for tech chases, he will attempt to make it random.

It's just like any other technique for winning. If your opponent is privy to your controller peaking, he can use that against you by faking his finger movements, and if you respond with a twitch reaction it just worked against you. In that case there isn't much you can do.

 

[Honorius]

I've never really thought about but it doesn't seem scummy. If you can use it to figure out di and get confirms out of throws... do it. I feel like it might turn into a bad habit though.

 

[Big-Cat]

I see we don't have many traditional fighting game fans here, since it's actually an old strategy used back in the arcade days for Street Fighter and such and can still be seen today.

It can be used in Smash to follow DI or mash attempts, but it's a lot more difficult than a traditional fighting game since the Gamecube pad is harder to see than an arcade stick.

I have never seen anyone in other fighting games look at the opponent's controls. Back in the day maybe, but now a days, arcades have dedicated machines for each player.

 

[Mightyno.M]

… Dimenions yomi shield...

He actually has a little table with a wall to block peeking. If I have to follow in his footsteps I will

 

[Sonicninja115]

I think it's just not feasible. The upsides aren't big enough for this, and a good player will notice your lapse and punish you for it. If they notice, it can actually help them, as they can now expect you to do the most logical choice according to their DI.

 

[I AKU I]

I occasionally look at my opponent's controller to "read" their DI for Melee Sheik's d-throw follow-ups. Only at low-mid percents though, and can't really think of any scenario where it would be helpful to do this in smash 4. I definitely agree with the other posters who said its better to listen for mashing or the sound that the shoulder buttons make. You guys are making me want to stop listening to music when I play...

Also agree with the posts saying that this could become a major disadvantage if your opponent catches on, especially if they have plenty of time to DI and know that you are making decisions entirely based on the direction their fingers are moving. Don't think anyone has caught me looking at their controller, but I'd still consider it a victory if this tactic caused my opponent to over-analyze every move they make and how it would appear to someone watching them. And with something like a Shiek/IC chain grab, do they even have the time to pretend DI'ing somewhere else?

 

[Xxaz_v]

At first I thought that the OP was going to talk about why it should be banned. I was surprised when I saw that he wanted to know the uses of it. If you're that bad at the game that you have to do he equivalent of screen peeking, you're an awful person. It's also extremely disrespectful (in a bad way) to the people who spend hundreds and hundreds of hours playing this game for money, fame, and self respect.

I don't even play Smash4 that often, but I didn't know that the community can stoop that low just to win a competitive match. I'm surprised that some people actually admitted to doing this. In a tournament set, you should be focusing on the match, and only the match. Every read, tech chase, Combo, and approach should be based only based on what is going on in the match, not what the other players fingers are doing. Depending on cheating to get an advantage is despicable.

 

[LightLV]

I don't even play Smash4 that often, but I didn't know that the community can stoop that low just to win a competitive match. I'm surprised that some people actually admitted to doing this. In a tournament set, you should be focusing on the match, and only the match. Every read, tech chase, Combo, and approach should be based only based on what is going on in the match, not what the other players fingers are doing. Depending on cheating to get an advantage is despicable.

Timeout by circle camping is 100% completely legal. By that logic, I don't see how anyone could have issue with controller watching, especially when they have to take their eyes off the screen, and if you see it happening you can just bait them into getting it wrong.

 

[TriTails]

Poke once said in our Discord group: He watches for any hand position change when other Luigis try to jumpless Cyclone gimp. He just wait out the Cyclone and recover back. He's not actually looking at the controller, he just watches it from the corner of his eyes.

There's also this info we got that: There's a Lucas player that watches for people's DI when he down throws. He just rotate the control stick around in a circle and was followed by '**** you Poke. Goddamn it' .

 

[JBones]

Never. If you have to take your attention off the match to see what your opponent is doing, you open yourself up for punishment, and you deserve that punishment.

It's not a dirty strategy, it's just not a good idea. I've never heard of anybody doing it.

Clearly a bad idea https://embed.gyazo.com/69b96cd01054cc9290b5abacf63affde.gif

 

[FallenHero]

Looking away from the entire game seems like you are just asking to get ****ed up. Maybe doing it to see how they will DI will work, but not every throw has enough hitstun to allow you to look away, look back, and then follow-up in time. A lot of you guys say you don't see what is wrong with that, but to me that sounds almost like straight up cheating. It turns a 50/50 situation into a situation where you can't really do anything.

 

[False]

Never. If you have to take your attention off the match to see what your opponent is doing, you open yourself up for punishment, and you deserve that punishment.

It's not a dirty strategy, it's just not a good idea. I've never heard of anybody doing it.

I think either Ally or MVD used to look at their opponent's controller back in Brawl, whenever they got a d-throw with Snake. They'd try to peek to see which wake-up option you'd do.

 

[Wintropy]

Clearly a bad idea https://embed.gyazo.com/69b96cd01054cc9290b5abacf63affde.gif

I think either Ally or MVD used to look at their opponent's controller back in Brawl, whenever they got a d-throw with Snake. They'd try to peek to see which wake-up option you'd do.

It may be useful for the very specific use of checking DI on a small handful of throws, I agree; but otherwise I can't see how it's a good idea, especially in neutral.

By diverting your attention from the screen, you're taking an unnecessary risk and potentially opening yourself up for punishment. It's not something I'd advise one make a habit of.

 

[False]

It may be useful for the very specific use of checking DI on a small handful of throws, I agree; but otherwise I can't see how it's a good idea, especially in neutral.

By diverting your attention from the screen, you're taking an unnecessary risk and potentially opening yourself up for punishment. It's not something I'd advise one make a habit of.

I mean... if you can make it a habit to only look off of throws then it wouldn't necessarily opening yourself up to punishment.

 

[Wintropy]

I mean... if you can make it a habit to only look off of throws then it wouldn't necessarily opening yourself up to punishment.

That's why I'm saying I can't envision it having any practical use outside of the aforementioned d-throw reads. It may have a use in that very specific context, and if it does, great - more power to the player that knows how to use it. Anything beyond that just seems too risky to be worth it, in my opinion.

That and you'd want to be surreptitious about peeking in the first place, so I'd say it's almost a micro-skill in itself. It's not something I'd personally want to devote my time to mastering, haha.

 

[Pazx]

That's why I'm saying I can't envision it having any practical use outside of the aforementioned d-throw reads. It may have a use in that very specific context, and if it does, great - more power to the player that knows how to use it. Anything beyond that just seems too risky to be worth it, in my opinion.

That and you'd want to be surreptitious about peeking in the first place, so I'd say it's almost a micro-skill in itself. It's not something I'd personally want to devote my time to mastering, haha.

I don't think anybody here has suggested you take your eyes off the screen in any situation other than getting a grab/tech chase, that's basically what this entire thread is about. Certainly nobody has suggested you do it in neutral.

 

[Wintropy]

I don't think anybody here has suggested you take your eyes off the screen in any situation other than getting a grab/tech chase, that's basically what this entire thread is about. Certainly nobody has suggested you do it in neutral.

Not the vibe I got, but okay, I'll take your word for it. :3

I can see how it's useful in certain circumstances, but eh, it's not something I have much interest in doing and I still think it's a bad habit to get into. But each to their own.

 

[False]

Yeah, kinda takes away from the aspect of outplaying your opponent.

 

[FallenHero]

Not only does it not sound like a good idea, but it sounds like bad sportsmanship to me. Even if they end up getting punished for trying to do it during a match, they did still attempt to use an outside factor of the game to win the match. To me it is not any different from peeking at the other player's screen in an fps game if you are playing locally to see where they are.