Peach neutral problems...

[Glitchy_]

Hello,
I've played Peach for a few months and I entered the competitive scene this summer...
I keep loosing but I think this is just my lack of playtime and thinking.

My problem i need help with: her neutral.
I somehow can't think of how to use her in the neutral.
Here are the options I use the most (and have trouble with):

- Turip
I give up stage control by pulling it since I have tu run away for it to be safe.

- N-air
Fast, kinda safe but no range... not usefull against a well spacing opponent

- F-air
Opposite of Nair. Nice range but way too slow and has too much landing lag if not auto canceled

- B-air
Looong cooldown -> can be punished easily my fast characters

-D-air
Sometimes safe but predictable

- D-tilt
Safe on shield but can be teched -> has no follow ups (also I'm not even sure if it's safe with the new ground tech cancel)

- Jab
Fast but not safe


This is how I look at peaches moves...
And I have no idea when to use what moves since they all require a mistake from the opponent to even hit.

I really like her but at the moment I'm clueless about her neutral,
pls help!

 

[Meru.]

A few mistakes in your post there.

Turnips are your long range tool. As Peach you want to stay at mid range or close range where her aerials, Dtilt, dash attack and dash grab are in reach. If you're already in this range there's little reason to run away and pluck a turnip, unless running away is part of your strategy (for example vs Ryu or Luigi) or you want to catch a breath for a second. In neutral, mostly want to use turnips to get to this zone.

Bair is safe when shorthopped, retreated and fastfalled. Well spaced it's also safe with the landing lag, but if you dont space it properly, youre going to get shield grabbed.

Fair is -5 on shield drop, so again, well spaced you're safe even with the landing lag. Retreating Fair is probably a safer bet but if you space them well both should be safe. You're right that its slow though and if your opponent sees it coming theyre probably not going to get hit by it, but nevertheless it still outspaces a lot of attacks and covers a lot of options (it eats jumps and rolls in for examples).

A well autocanceled Nair is -2 on shield, it should not only be perfectly safe, you can sometimes even get a grab after hitting their shield.

Jab is definitely not safe but be aware of the fact that jab2 can be delayed a lot after jab1. This will mess up their shield grab timing a lot.

Dtilt can be teched but only if they were actually holding shield at that time. Even then you are still at frame advantage.

-------

In the current meta, Peach most oppressive tool is considered Bair, especially when shorthopped (see Kie vs Rich Brown for example, Kie spaces Bair extremely well vs Mewtwo here). It's fast, ranged and safe. Peach is very strong when she stands at her Bair range.

Do throw out a Dair, either shorthop or floated, when you have enough time. Dairs startup is a bit slow, but the move puts amazing pressure on shield, cant be spotdodged and has high reward if you hit it.

At close range consider Nair and jab. The former is safe and rewarding, the latter is very fast. Also dont forget your grab.

Also: use float to reposition yourself. If you stand in close range but prefer battling from mid range you could either dash back or use float to retreat a little bit. If you float a little bit higher, you avoid your opponents grounded moves while being able to attack them from above using your aerials. Many opponents have the tendency to hold shield when they see float because theyre so afraid of aerials like Fair, Dair or Bair, which opens the way for you to let go of float and dash grab them. In general it sounds like you have trouble spacing and float is one of the things that could help you fix that.

 

[Glitchy_]

A few mistakes in your post there.

Turnips are your long range tool. As Peach you want to stay at mid range or close range where her aerials, Dtilt, dash attack and dash grab are in reach. If you're already in this range there's little reason to run away and pluck a turnip, unless running away is part of your strategy (for example vs Ryu or Luigi) or you want to catch a breath for a second. In neutral, mostly want to use turnips to get to this zone.

Bair is safe when shorthopped, retreated and fastfalled. Well spaced it's also safe with the landing lag, but if you dont space it properly, youre going to get shield grabbed.

Fair is -5 on shield drop, so again, well spaced you're safe even with the landing lag. Retreating Fair is probably a safer bet but if you space them well both should be safe. You're right that its slow though and if your opponent sees it coming theyre probably not going to get hit by it, but nevertheless it still outspaces a lot of attacks and covers a lot of options (it eats jumps and rolls in for examples).

A well autocanceled Nair is -2 on shield, it should not only be perfectly safe, you can sometimes even get a grab after hitting their shield.

Jab is definitely not safe but be aware of the fact that jab2 can be delayed a lot after jab1. This will mess up their shield grab timing a lot.

Dtilt can be teched but only if they were actually holding shield at that time. Even then you are still at frame advantage.

-------

In the current meta, Peach most oppressive tool is considered Bair, especially when shorthopped (see Kie vs Rich Brown for example, Kie spaces Bair extremely well vs Mewtwo here). It's fast, ranged and safe. Peach is very strong when she stands at her Bair range.

Do throw out a Dair, either shorthop or floated, when you have enough time. Dairs startup is a bit slow, but the move puts amazing pressure on shield, cant be spotdodged and has high reward if you hit it.

At close range consider Nair and jab. The former is safe and rewarding, the latter is very fast. Also dont forget your grab.

Also: use float to reposition yourself. If you stand in close range but prefer battling from mid range you could either dash back or use float to retreat a little bit. If you float a little bit higher, you avoid your opponents grounded moves while being able to attack them from above using your aerials. Many opponents have the tendency to hold shield when they see float because theyre so afraid of aerials like Fair, Dair or Bair, which opens the way for you to let go of float and dash grab them. In general it sounds like you have trouble spacing and float is one of the things that could help you fix that.

Thanks for clearing these things up, I definitely have to improve my spacing...

1. Are there special games you'd recomment for me to wach?
2. -2 on shield = 2 frames advantage?

 

[a Dank Soul]

The nuetral is all about movement. IMO you should focus less on throwing out unsafe moves and more on using Peach's unique movement options to bait your opponent. Float cancelling is the key component of this characters neutral, but she also has some other great options as well. In fact, I would go so far as to say she has one of the most slept on neutrals in the game if executed well.

I think the best approach to Peach's neutral is:

1. Float cancels: Pretty safe, tons of ways to follow up based on your opponents reactions.

2. Turnips: Her dash toss isn't very good, but short-hop turnip throw is a great option with some safe followups depending on how your opponent reacts.

If you're going to throw out any attacks in neutral, I would number it down to bair and dair. Bair because of the safe spacing potential and dair because it's somewhat safe on shield and has solid followup options. 'Course you want to use both these in moderation because they can and probably will get you punished hard.

Here's a good example of a solid neutral game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5R4zlBmfOc

Also, dtilt has a TON of amazing followups. It's a shame higher level Peach players don't show them off in tournament. Check out this video, too, if you get the chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Utebe3fvyg