Path to Wisdom ? Beginner help.

[QuoteMarks]

So I am an Ike main who has recently been experimenting with Zelda.I have decided to ask the Zelda boards help me learn the things about the character that would otherwise take me much longer. I will mostly be asking about strategy. Hopefully the thread may help others as well.

My first Question is a bit broad, about Defence Vs. Offence. I have heard that it is best for Zelda to play Defensively with some limited Offensives mixed in. Is this true and to what extent.

 

[QuoteMarks]

I wouldn't post but there seems to be a lack of a dedicated Strategy discussion.

 

[DanDanChan]

I usually main Dk, but i have a fondness for sorcerers, and Zelda is my favorite game series.
I think that your general gamelan is spot on. I almost always suffer when i go full blown offensive, and playing a defensive game really let's Zelda use her spacing spells and punish laggy or whiffed attacks

 

[~Dionysus~]

I always say follow your instincts! My past success with Zelda has been heavily focused on a defensive bait and punish game. The reason Zelda suffers as a character is she doesn't have the options for diversity in play style.

There is no reason you should ever go in as Zelda. Always zone and use plenty of "get off me" options such as Nayru's Love, Down Tilt, and Jab. These are also great for setting up combos: primarily grab. Because Zelda has issues with mobility, you want to be using plenty of empty hops and play mind games with her Up B and Fair/Bair attacks. Phantom (especially with its buffs) is great for edge-gaurding, but do not use this move in neutral as its easily telegraphed. Nair and Dair are some of her better options in neutral as they are safer.

It takes a lot of patience and really great awareness of the match to play Zelda, but if your opponents aren't ready they will be punished HARD and see how much of a terror Zelda can be!

Hope this helps! <3

 

[Zylach]

Sorry I didn't post here sooner. I was a bit distracted yesterday when you posted this.

Zelda, as a character, is designed to be a defensive character. With her new phantom, I suspect Sakurai wanted her to be using this to wall out her opponents and pepper them with Din's fire. While phantom is a useful spacing tool as long as it's not charged to level 3 (after the patch that gave it a hitbox on travel), Din's isn't which makes her camping game really awkward since she doesn't actually put on the ranged pressure necessary to be a true camper. That said, she also lacks safe approach options, so where does that leave her? The best description I've heard of Zelda's play style is that of a hybrid turtle/aggro character.

Basically, Zelda will be her most effective when she's keeping her opponent at a distance from her around the max range of fsmash, ftilt, dtilt, utilt, and jab. Nair is also a great spacing tool once you figure out its disjoint. Around where phantom 1 would hit with the middle of its sword. If the opponent approaches Zelda, she can use all of those tools to stuff their approach (Jab in particular and dtilt for combo setups where fsmash and ftilt are more for outranging an opponent's attack or as punishes). Once Zelda gets the opponent in a disadvantageous position, she can push her advantaged state for a little while by giving chase with some of her true combos like jab to Dash Attack, dtilt to nearly any aerial, and she can also look to bait an opponent's airdodge which Zelda takes advantage of really well with Lkicks and elevators. Unfortunately, Zelda can't push her advantage as long as other characters like Sheik or Mario can since she doesn't have amazing frame traps or long true combos etc which means she has to return to a turtle playstyle when the opponent is able to reset to neutral because her neutral game leaves a lot to be desired.

As Dionysus said, a Zelda player should be using every mindgame and mixup possible in order to fake out the opponent. Because of her lack of options in the neutral game, the Zelda player has to get inside of their opponent's heads more than most other characters that can just press the A button for a free win (I'm looking at you Mario mains). Take advantage of empty hops into grabs, short hop airdodge into Nayru's Love or bair or nair, airdodge or dair while falling and Nayru's just as you're about to land so the opponent will get punished for thinking you're punishable and, eventually, ledge cancel FW to dair or nair for tricky kills. Use Zelda's shifting hurtbox during her attack animations to microspace against your opponent. Fsmash's hurtbox shift is especially dramatic (I've gotten caught in a Falco rapid jab, fallen out, input fsmash and charged it until the combo finisher came out which doesn't hit Zelda while she's charging fsmash and gotten a huge punish by releasing it). A Zelda player should have an accurate sense of the range on all of her tools so the player can outspace opponents with her disjoints.

And remember, if you're facing people that are unsafely spacing against your shield, they should be regretting it. Zelda has some of the best tools OoS in the game with Nayru's Love, bair, and FW.

 

[Fuj¡netta 2]

I have found that the best strategy with Zelda is to not play her.

The TRUE path to wisdom.

 

[QuoteMarks]

Thanks for the replies. Now this may sound strange but what are 6 moves of Zelda's that are used the most and why? This came up on the Ike Boards once and it's a bit of Fighting Game Theory.

The Idea is that any character will have 6 moves that will be used all the time and any other moves will be Situational. So basically which moves should I practice the most.

 

[Fuj¡netta 2]

Thanks for the replies. Now this may sound strange but what are 6 moves of Zelda's that are used the most and why? This came up on the Ike Boards once and it's a bit of Fighting Game Theory.

The Idea is that any character will have 6 moves that will be used all the time and any other moves will be Situational. So basically which moves should I practice the most.

Lol this might be true for most characters but Zelda...

Sis she scarcely has 4 moves that she should always use.

 

[Furret]

My first Question is a bit broad, about Defence Vs. Offence. I have heard that it is best for Zelda to play Defensively with some limited Offensives mixed in. Is this true and to what extent.

zelda is played defensively not because her defensive options are the best ever, but because she actually has defensive options compared to offensive. she's just really bad at zone breaking.

The Idea is that any character will have 6 moves that will be used all the time and any other moves will be Situational. So basically which moves should I practice the most.

I can't recommend a move, but I can recommend aspects of moves

• falling nair into strings/combos of uairs, dtilts or into kill moves like Uspecial and down smash
• spacing fsmash/phantom
• dthrow follow ups
• where and when to jab and jab follow ups
• learning what you can punish with Uspecial
• Edguarding, truly doing your best with zelda is mastering her options to edgeguard. There's a lot to this one

 

[Zylach]

Thanks for the replies. Now this may sound strange but what are 6 moves of Zelda's that are used the most and why? This came up on the Ike Boards once and it's a bit of Fighting Game Theory.

The Idea is that any character will have 6 moves that will be used all the time and any other moves will be Situational. So basically which moves should I practice the most.

That's an interesting concept. I'd have to say:

1. Nair
2. Jab
3. Dtilt
4. Utilt
5. Fsmash
6. Nayru's Love

1. Nair is Zelda's only spacing tool in the air, links into itself at times, does 11%, covers airdodges, beats out non-disjointed attacks if spaced properly, and is used out of dthrow and dtilt. It's really her BnB attack.
2. Jab is one of Zelda's best spacing tools on the ground. It's heavily disjointed, does 8%, has 8 frames of endlag so it's hard to punish, and combos into dash attack.
3. Dtilt is Zelda's fastest option at frame 5 and combos into aerials. It is also Zelda's only real option for clanking with attacks as it's basically her only attack that isn't transcendent.
4. Utilt is Zelda's best anti-air and is also a great combo tool as it combos into itself, usmash, and nair depending on percent. It comes out on frame 6 I believe and has a lot of active frames that cover a 180 degree angle around Zelda's head.
5. Fsmash is actually a great spacing tool for Zelda since it's quite difficult to punish if it's spaced perfectly. It's probably 90% reliable now. I've only had people fall out of it when they can caught at weird angles. PP fsmash is a great option for punishing rolls and other displacement options thanks to its multihit properties and large disjoint.
6. NL is Zelda's signature "get off me" attack. It has intangibility from frames 5 to 11 I believe and the active frames on it will punish any spotdodge, roll, etc. It's also Zelda's only landing tool outside of dair which is slow and doesn't have many active frames. Bait your opponent into thinking they can punish an airdodge or a dair and fake them out with Nayru's Love for an easy 11%. Is also sometimes used to reflect projectiles lol.

 

[~Dionysus~]

Thanks for the replies. Now this may sound strange but what are 6 moves of Zelda's that are used the most and why? This came up on the Ike Boards once and it's a bit of Fighting Game Theory.

The Idea is that any character will have 6 moves that will be used all the time and any other moves will be Situational. So basically which moves should I practice the most.

Here's my list based on the idea of what should be practiced the most. Everything my fellow Zelda players said is extremely valid. Just giving my two cents!

1) Nair
2) Dair
3) Fair/Bair
4) Down Tilt!!
5) Up Smash
6) Farore's Wind
--------------------------
1) Nair is easily her safest aerial, and one of the few moves she can "throw out". Landing a falling nair leads into many set-ups as well as being the cornerstone of Zelda's combo potential. I have also found that Nair is great at challenging opponents who attempt to approach from the air who aren't good at spacing.

2) Dair is both beautiful and underrated in my opinion. A retreating dair can be pretty useful in neutral. Practicing its usefulness offstage is almost necessary. The sweetspot is devastating, and the soft spike hitbox of it can lead into another dair or a footstool if you fall with it. Zelda also has options to set-up with this move on grounded opponents with grabs, tilts, etc.

3) I put fair and bair on this list simply for the idea of practicing these moves. Zelda is a precision-based character. Understanding the ways you can land those sweetspots is incredibly important.

4) Down tilt is Zelda's bread and butter for set-ups. Up tilt, forward tilt, another down tilt, grab, jab, aerials, and even Farore's Wind can follow-up from a down tilt. It's also one of her few spacing options and works wonders in close-combat situations. (I also like to use this along with Jab as a way to wall and stop approaches.)

5) Up Smash is deceptively her strongest smash attack thanks to a patch. It has the potential to kill most of the cast starting at about 95% not even counting rage. Unfortunately it is SUPER punishable, so practicing the moments when it is safest to use will be very beneficial. Along with up tilt, it also has uses punishing air dodges and catching landing opponents.

6) Farore's Wind is on this list purely because it's so hard to control, practicing the angles and options of this move is crucial. It is potentially one of Zelda's best moves, but you have to smart about it.

Hope this helps! <3

 

[DinsFireIsOP]

Since Zelda is not really the kind of fighter with all-purposes moves, I think it's important at first to truly be conscious of which moves can be thrown out and which ones shouldn't.

You may throw out :
- DTilt (Zelda's DTilt is her fastest option, so it's pretty much her "jab")
- Nair

...and that's all^^.

It is tempting to throw out Jab and Nayru too, but the latter is really punishable, and her jab is decent but is actually more a spacing tool.

You may be tempted to use dash attack a lot, too. Don't use it too much, it's better (IMO) to use it as an occasional quick burst.
If you try to approach too directly, you'll soon discover that dash attack and grab are your two main options... that's why I personally like to approach and stop at some distance of the opponent to threaten him / her with my spacing options. But her options are not that fast so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Generally speaking approaching is hard as Zelda, my advice is to find whatever method suits you the best, but always mixing up your approaches. A predictable Zelda is a dead Zelda.

And it's easy to become predictable with Zelda due to the few options she has. A good online exercise I found is to try to fight without using Dtilt or Nair - it's actually really hard as these options are your BnB, but it forces you to find new ways to approach.

Except for chaining into itself at low percent I personnally don't find Utilt that great, but it's important to know when to use it when the opponent attacks from the air. I think Zelda has trouble against aerial approaches, especially ranged and safe on shield aerials. You can also try to use angled Ftilt.

So, regarding the 6-moves thing :
1/ Dtilt (leads to a lot of things, really useful combo starter and fastest option on ground)
2/ Nair (especially when fast-falling it)
3/ Nayru (nice get off-me move / panic button)
4/ Forward Smash (use it as a spacing option, not like your usual smash. As for Ftilt, it may be useful out of shield or when near the edges)
5/ Farore's Wind (Don't spam it. As I said, you shouldn't be predictable. But this move may instill the fear in your opponent's mind if used correctly. You can also direct it downwards to cancel it quite quickly if you launched it but noticed you shouldn't have)
6/ Down throw, useful to chain into Nair. Having a grab at first may not be easy, though. Note that Back throw on the ledge may be useful too, although I wish it had more knockback.

You should avoid to throw out :
- Din's Fire (for the simple reason that the situations where it is remotely useful are fairly rare)
- Usmash (really punishable)
- Fair / Bair (landing lag...)
- Uair

It doesn't mean you should never use these moves of course, but you should use them cleverly. For example, you can condition your opponent to airdodge after a grab by repeatedly using Dthrow -> Nair. Then you can mix up by going for a Dthrow -> Usmash instead. You need to find this kind of stuff to condition your opponent and make them predictable, because it is against predictable opponents that Zelda truly shines - that's why she can be some kind of "noob slayer".

 

[QuoteMarks]

Thank you all again now what are her most useful/easy combos/strings. I know she has some but I don't know how usefull they are.

 

[Furret]

Thank you all again now what are her most useful/easy combos/strings. I know she has some but I don't know how usefull they are.

an old comment I made still relevant

right I saw some responses, but I'm to lazy to read them, so Imma list some combos, set ups and strings I like to use cause why not

bullet points ahoy!

• Nair, the grand daddy of combo starters, works at any percent% and has kill potential. make sure you hit the ground before the final hit though and always try to get two hits in
  • Nair -> Utilt
    • the low percent option, giving the longest strings to work with at low percents, almost always guaranteed and should be the go to option if you hit a grounded opponent with only one hit of nair (it will pop them up so nothing else will connect before they can jump out)
  • Nair -> Dtilt
    • great for leading into the mid percent 50/50s that Dtilt has, guaranteed
  • Nair -> Dsmash
    • a late kill option and sets up for edge guards, guaranteed
  • Nair -> Uspecial
    • great kill option, still need to follow DI, the downside is your opponent wont always be unable to act as how much frame advantage you have is reliant when you land during nair
• Jab, decent set up move, usable for comboing low-mid percents
  • Jab -> dash attack
    • this is the usual follow up, it true combos and bad DI/sour spot will give you another dash attack
  • Jab -> grab
    • a mix up option, doesn't catch jumps, but it's still useful and it's best to use an option that boosts your grab range (dash attack cancel grab or roll canceled grab come to mind)
  • Jab -> Farores
    • best used when jab starts to cause tumbles in mid %s, forcing your opponent to tech instead of fast fall shield
• Utilt, strong option if you can catch someone in it, stings into itself at low percents, leads to 50/50s and some combos
  • utilt -> uair
    • catches jumps, allowing you to go for air dodge reads, true combos if you hit behind zelda with utilt
  • utilt -> Nair
    • same as above, but can true combo if you hit people at the start of utilt as well
  • utilt -> Uspecial
    • only true combos at very specific percents and when you hit with the tail end of utilt, making it sadly hard to use
• Dtilt, leads to low percent strings and mid percent reads
  • dtilt -> utilt
    • good option at low percents to stick opponents into a higher damaging string
  • dtilt -> Ftilt(up angled)
    • your option should your opponent be out of range for more dtilts or utilts at low percents, can true combo hard to tell when though
  • dtilt -> Fsmash
    • for your airdodge happy opponents at low percents
  • dtilt -> Fair
    • strong read option in mid percents
  • dtilt -> Uair
    • tail end of options for dtilt, I hardly if ever use this one
• Dthrow, obvious blah blah blah, dthrow the game
  • Dthrow -> nair
    • the option that combos at low to near mid percents
  • Dthrow -> Bair
    • the mid to higher percent meant for reading an airdodge then punishing
  • Dthrow -> Uair
    • the standar 50/50 to use at mid percents
• Uthrow, only really usable against fast fallers
  • Uthrow -> utilt
    • super low percent combo option
  • Uthrow -> Usmash
    • super low percent combo option
• Dair, the hard read option
  • Dair -> Uair
    • looks flashy, goes to kill percents

gotta remember, sometimes it's how strong the follow up is not how long the true combo is