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What about the differences in angles on dash attack? Does that change anything? I don't have a Wii U to test but at higher percents it seemed a lot easier to follow up with a fair.
Please elaborate on how it's an edge guarding option. I never considered it as such. I'm legit curious.
I never said that it's good for edge guards, just that it sets them up. It can actually force some characters to recover low at higher percents or if you catch them without a second jump. I'd consider that a plus, however slight.
I tested it. No true combos out of dash attack without DI. Maybe if they DI in though.
They go more horizontally. Ruined some former set-ups but overall it is a buff.
I mean, Dsmash is just better at doing what it was doing before. It hasn't changed all that much.
What's not fair? Charizard has been consistently buffed since this game's inception and is now a very solid B+ tier character who's tournament viable. Also, you have a great kill throw that kills around 140 (less with Rage or platforms even) AND a great combo throw that racks up damage very well.This patch wasn't very friendly to Zard overall. Cloud doesn't seem to be a good matchup, and he seems to now be outclassed by bowser.
It's no fair, why does bowser get to have a hoo hah?
PS. We're calling bowser's new combo the bow wow. I need that name to catch on, okay?
I don't know about B+ tier. That's a little high. I don't think any character 'better' than Zard is A- or better. I'd consider Zard a B- or a B tops. He's certainly usable in tournaments but his MU spread really isn't great. Also, lacking damaging confirms outside of throw combos and safe kill options/setups outside of throws makes Zard's playstyle super linear. Of all the buffs that Zard could get, I really wish that they didn't have to focus on the grab so much.
While that would fix Charizard's problems offensively, I think it would make his recovery too good for a heavy (unless specials also get reworked).
Having a bad air game in neutral is fine as long as the character deals a lot of damage across the board or is also a heavy spacer. Zard has a meh air game, meh damage, and a kit split between decent spacing and approaching options. And I understand that there are benefits to being able to both space and approach depending on what you need in a MU but I think it would be best if one was subpar and the other was great. As things stand right now, I'd say Charizard is equally alright but not great at approaching and spacing.
Because having a long ass side b isn't already better than most heavies.
Sarcasm doesn't make a particularly clear argument or foster discussion but uh... Ok?
Having better air speed will absolutely make his horizontal recovery better. As Zard is right now, his horizontal recovery is good when he has air jumps or recovers from hitstun before dipping below the ledge. He also has to be close enough to the ledge to grab it with heavy armor to get back safely. With better airspeed, he gets to recover with non-max distance Uspecial just like DK except Zard gets armor and goes up. That's impossible to gimp.
It won't 'break' Zard as a character at the highest level of play because Zard just isn't a very good character. His recovery will be broken though. He would never get gimped. Not by counters, items, spikes, you name it. Nothing. No heavy is supposed to get something that good, even if the rest of their options fail to measure up to a majority of the cast's options.
Man we wish we had 1/10th the amount of buffs you guys had
Fly, while having good armor, only has armor during the start up. Also, you can't grab at not full distance. If you are at the ledge when not full distance, you go above it.
Most projectiles won't clank with it unless it has a hurtbox, like Gyro or samus down b. Caping and Counter are super risky, and because the 2 hits, sometimes you will only counter the first hit, leaving you to get the full blitz worth of knockback. I've had this happen vs Ryukred's Shulk as well as a random Little Mac on FG. Caping also doesn't send that far since, if you need FB to recover, by the time you reach the stage you're already out of momentum or close to it. If anything, more aerial speed will make caping flare blitz more rewarding.
Because a little aerial speed buff? its not like adding a little bit of aerial speed will suddenly make him move like Lucas. He will still be vulnerable in the air. Flare Blitz still would have heavy armor and still get ****ed by items/strong hurtboxes, Fly will still only have 10 frames of super armor and will still be vulnerable during the actual hurtboxes, and his jumps will be just as underwhelming as they always are.
Sooo, all heavies are supposed to have sub par options and slow aerial movement because they are heavy? I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Look at smash 4 Ike. Good horizontal recovery, good vertical recovery, good frame data, and jumps don't automatically commit you to p much standing in place for 60 frames. And yet, Ike isn't OP.
Casual play with charizard usually consists of side b. Not jumping.
Not sure why you're using Dedede to talk about horizontal recovery (as his is pretty shaky) but whether or not Zard's recovery becomes broken with an airspeed buff is entirely a question of how much they would give him.
Yes you can. This isn't Melee. There is a certain point right after startup where you can't grab it but you can certainly grab it well before you enter free-fall (ie. non-max distance).
Most projectiles won't. Most projectile characters can make it clank if they know which one to use though. And not countering both hits is a super uncommon situation, if it occurs at all (counters get some invincibility on hit). Kuroganehammer doesn't even have a frame for hit 2. I can see why you would argue that it increases the risk but all it really does is put extra emphasis on the opponent not countering too early, which is really not that hard if you're playing offline and not accounting for lag (hopefully I understand this interaction correctly).
If you want to read the first thing I wrote again:
All heavies are supposed to be somewhat gimpable (even if the rest of their options are bad) because they're heavies. They take the least WBKB in the game. So... no. That's not what I said.
So for starters this isn't a fair comparison because Ike isn't even in Zard's weight class (albeit still close). I can see why you bring him up though as he's probably one of the only heavies with recoveries about as good as Zard's.
Ike and Zard both have 7 frames of jumpsquat so uh... Read Kuroganehammer m8 c'mon.
I think this oversimplifies a distinct perspective on Zard but I will neither agree or disagree with you here.
Yea, special formatting on this site can be really weird at times.
4 jumps + super armor up b that travels 37283578457 miles is nothing to disregard either.
