Palutena Tier Placement

[PlTe]

I haven't seen any threads about this, and I wasn't sure what existing thread this discussion could be placed under.

Assuming customs are on, what do you guys think Palutena's tier placement is, and why? I've heard she can be Top 10 with customs, I've heard even with customs she's still not Top 20. What are your thoughts on it?

Also, another thing to add, what do you guys believe to be Palutena's best custom set?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Most people here feel she is top 10.

Jump glide, super speed, lightweight, auto reticle (and situational explosive flame).

Her other customs are probably better in some cases but only in very specific MUs and situations.

 

[BrazenBee]

I feel she's top 10 with customs.

The options that Lightweight and Super Speed give her are phenomenal. The Warp/Jump Glide and Autoreticle/Explosive Flame probably comes down to personal preference. The amazing thing about Palutena is how far you can experiment with different play styles.

Without customs, she's not as bad as people say she is. I'd probably say around mid/low mid tier for that. Her default specials aren't bad, it's only that the combination of them make her far more defensive. And it can still work well, albeit situationally.

 

[lostleader]

I'm not completely sure how she fair with a "customs allowed tier list", but considering she has one of the most defined custom sets I see her being in top 10 without much argument. Other than that I feel her actual rate has a character is around upper C tier or near the upper mid tier. Her only clear downside to me is that you always have to account for your lag whenever you are doing something, so she can be punished easily, but for the most part she has all the tools to gimp, combo, or kill any character with.

I've only had problems with greninja and samus so far, and for the most part I feel like I could win it if I had a higher amount of skill so it's not overwhelmingly bad.

 

[Fluidityt]

I'm not completely sure how she fair with a "customs allowed tier list", but considering she has one of the most defined custom sets I see her being in top 10 without much argument. Other than that I feel her actual rate has a character is around upper C tier or near the upper mid tier. Her only clear downside to me is that you always have to account for your lag whenever you are doing something, so she can be punished easily, but for the most part she has all the tools to gimp, combo, or kill any character with.

I've only had problems with greninja and samus so far, and for the most part I feel like I could win it if I had a higher amount of skill so it's not overwhelmingly bad.

teehee, the pale tuna wants to tale on the tan robot ^^ ... awww so cute!

 

[Nexin]

I believe that Palutena is one of the strongest characters in the game with customs on. She still has her bad matchups and her weaknesses, but many of things that really crippled her with her default moveset, most notably her lack of approach options and trouble scoring the kill, are addressed if customs are legal.

As for her custom sets, I'd say go with whatever you like the most. Recently I've been leaning more towards 2312 not because I think it is the best set in the game (personally I believe Autoreticle is overall better than Explosive Flames), but because I feel it fits my playstyle the best out of all of them.

 

[AncientCode42]

Personally I just use Palutena occasionally for fun, but I see her as mid-low tier but not as bad as others say. Pretty much like Zelda. But this is with her default moveset, with customs Palutena is amazing. I particularly love using Explosive Flame, Light Weight, Super Speed and Warp. (I can't get the hang of Jump Glide, so someone explain its uses.)

Although I though Angelic Missile was decent, how is that move by the way? I prefer Explosive Flame over Autoreticle because from far distance it does its job, does better damage and doesn't have an inconsistent hitbox.

Like I said I just use Palutena for fun, so I could be completely wrong about everything. Plus I'm not the best with her either.

 

[HappyBear801]

I never use customs and personally don't believe in them competitively.

That said I still main Palutena (one of seven, although not immedietly displayed) and I just love using her default playstyle. Some of the ending lag has a difficult learning curve and so to her hit/windboxes, but a good Palutena can be a beast, and that's what I aim to be with her. Hard she may be, but without customs I'd place her around 27. Perfectly mid.

 

[Masque]

(I can't get the hang of Jump Glide, so someone explain its uses.)

It allows you to quickly close the gap against opponents with an aerial-based approach. You can approach with Fair, mix up with Bair and land behind the opponent, or simply glide over pesky projectiles like Sheik's needles and get in close. Your horizontal movement while airborne is excellent, allowing you to approach even when Super Speed is in cooldown.

 

[HappyBear801]

I feel she's top 10 with customs.

The options that Lightweight and Super Speed give her are phenomenal. The Warp/Jump Glide and Autoreticle/Explosive Flame probably comes down to personal preference. The amazing thing about Palutena is how far you can experiment with different play styles.

Without customs, she's not as bad as people say she is. I'd probably say around mid/low mid tier for that. Her default specials aren't bad, it's only that the combination of them make her far more defensive. And it can still work well, albeit situationally.

Defensive can be a good option for certain matchups though, especially ground-based characters (ex. Bowser, Ganondorf, and of course Little Mac). It's also a matchup that people don't usually expect, so that can be used to one's advantage on the defense to offense and surprising people with what you can do.

 

[SethTheMage]

Personally, without customs, I feel that Palutena is around mid-tier. I definitely don't think she's quite as bad as people say, but she has noticeable weaknesses that hold her back. Her default set makes her really defensive and read-based. Against slower characters, this works pretty well, but there are a lot of fast paced brawlers who have great mobility and safe options (like Sheik, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, and Sonic). These characters are very difficult to punish and kill effectively, since most of Palutena's kill options are really laggy, and any mistakes leave you wide open for a brutal punish.

However, with access to customs, I definitely agree that she is Top 10 material, possibly even Top 8. Super Speed, Jump Glide, and Lightweight drastically change her playstyle and cover a lot of her weaknesses. They give her much better approach options and greater mobility, and they turn her from a mediocre defense-based character into an offensive killing machine. Lightweight gives her a really fast movement speed and a guaranteed followup into Uair from Dthrow at kill percents, Jump Glide gives her a fast aerial approach that can jump over projectiles (like Sheik's needle), and Super Speed gives her greater mobility and access to many punish and mixup options, since it can be cancelled into an aerial, grab, or Smash Attack.

If you need further proof about how awesome Customs Palutena can be, check out the incredibly hype Winners Finals and Grand Finals from DBA 4 and the amazing gameplay that AeroLink showed against Larry Lurr's Luigi and Fox. If customs are allowed, Palutena is truly able to demonstrate the power of a goddess.

 

[Fuj1n]

Why don't we spend less time talking about how good other people think she is and more time developing her metagame and learning to deal with tough match ups?

 

[Wintropy]

She's not as awful as people give her credit for, I'm certain of that.

I'd say she's about mid, higher with customs.

 

[JosePollo]

Why don't we spend less time talking about how good other people think she is and more time developing her metagame and learning to deal with tough match ups?

Because there's other threads for that. This thread is specifically to talk about how good other people think she is in comparison to other characters in the game.

That aside, she's mid-tier without customs on (definitely not low-tier as a lot of people seem to think), but easily top 10 (maybe even top 5) with access to Super Speed and Lightweight. She's able to run roughshod over a majority of the cast, and even over the top tiers in the hands of a good enough player.

 

[JayWon]

I push for Palutena's customs so hard. I hope many of you other Palutena mains do as well!
Customs Palutena is truly her real future and I honestly find all those Palutena "mains" who for some bizarre reason adamantly believe default Palutena has potential or is better is seriously delusional and/or never quite truly invested their time figuring out encorporating/mastering Palutena's custom moves.

Like seriously? How much "potential" does her Counter/Reflect/Warp have to offer? Counter is already one of the worst variations in the game and I am not aware of any potential advanced new tech Counter will offer. Sure Reflect reflects things and screws with some recoveries and ignore shields (why not just grab? lol) but those are all very situational at best. Superspeed is honestly so much more superior giving her SO MANY OPTIONS. The key word is OPTIONS people. Palutena gains SOOO many approach options, she gains three kill options (superspeed >> Up-smash/D-air spike/U-air), and landing options, and movement options! You will use Superspeed a bajillion times compared to Reflect's very situational usages.

Do I even need to say anything about Lightweight? Default Down-special is inferior with absolutely no potential nor options. That's that. Celestial Fireworks, someone has to convince me how it outweighs the benefits/options/potentials of Lightweight.

Warp.... Guys just because you suck with Jump Glide and don't understand Jump Glide hence can't be effective with Jump Glide personally and then you concluding Jump Glide sucks is absolutely ridiculous. Warp canceling is pretty cool and is alright... but Jump Glide... Every opponent I play who don't even main Palutena can clearly and easily acknowledge how good Jump glide is and when I tell these people who don't main Palutena that there are people in this forum who believe Jump Glide sucks and Warp is better, they laugh and think you are an idiot.

Auto-reticle is great, so is Explosive Flame. I stick with Explosive Flame (covers landing options, and ledge options very well) against most characters unless I know I can get more mileage off Auto-reticle and need to anti-zone and force approaches/stop them from charging stuff.

Custom Palutena is her real future. I will be devastated if there is a day when customs are universally banned on all tourneys/meta.

 

[Wintropy]

With any luck, things will turn out alright at EVO with regards to customs and we can actually get an inkling as to how they will work in the grand scheme of things.

It would be a magnanimous blessing for a lot of characters, not just Palutena, if customs work out.

 

[PlTe]

In Zero's recent tier list video, he placed Palutena high in mid-tier. Thoughts?

 

[TastyCarcass]

He probably got to that conclusion because M2K likes her.

EDIT: Would like to add that this is pretty good news. He put her much higher than I thought he would. Second highest of the Mid tier is brilliant news.
You have to keep in mind that tiers are not as big of a deal as they were in Melee or Brawl, where the top tiers were incredible, the mid tiers were usable and the bottom tiers were flat out broken and could only be used for teabagging purposes.

Warp.... Guys just because you suck with Jump Glide and don't understand Jump Glide hence can't be effective with Jump Glide personally and then you concluding Jump Glide sucks is absolutely ridiculous. Warp canceling is pretty cool and is alright... but Jump Glide... Every opponent I play who don't even main Palutena can clearly and easily acknowledge how good Jump glide is and when I tell these people who don't main Palutena that there are people in this forum who believe Jump Glide sucks and Warp is better, they laugh and think you are an idiot.

Auto-reticle is great, so is Explosive Flame. I stick with Explosive Flame (covers landing options, and ledge options very well) against most characters unless I know I can get more mileage off Auto-reticle and need to anti-zone and force approaches/stop them from charging stuff.

Custom Palutena is her real future. I will be devastated if there is a day when customs are universally banned on all tourneys/meta.

I agree. However I prefer warp just because I think I'm too vulnerable with Jump Glide. I tried running Jump Glide a couple of times, and in tournaments it meant that I couldn't go as far off the ledge because it doesn't recover as far. I rarely saw the opportunity to use it as a combo extender, lightweight Palutena is capable of going as far as I need her to. I think it's much more useful to have an invincible teleport ledgeguard, which essentially means you can't be edgeguarded.

Explosive flame is a bit too much of a commit to me. I need to see what it's like for covering the ledge, because currently I see it as a bit too laggy and slow.

I can understand running reflect over super speed in some matchups (Villager, Megaman, Pac Man)

 

[JosePollo]

I prefer warp just because I think I'm too vulnerable with Jump Glide. I tried running Jump Glide a couple of times, and in tournaments it meant that I couldn't go as far off the ledge because it doesn't recover as far. I rarely saw the opportunity to use it as a combo extender, lightweight Palutena is capable of going as far as I need her to. I think it's much more useful to have an invincible teleport ledgeguard, which essentially means you can't be edgeguarded.

Warp is actually pretty easy to edge guard. If Palutena warps from under the ledge, she's going to try to snap to it and all you have to do is trump or aim for the "snap back". If she's uses Warp above the ledge, she's probably going to try to Warp behind you, meaning she'll suffer some easily-punishable landing lag. The reason most people go with Jump Glide in terms of recovery is because landing it is almost lagless as long as you don't cancel it or let it finish. It also doesn't lock you into two possible recovery options. With Jump Glide you can be under the stage and still recover high while your opponent tries to go for a ledge trump expecting you to go for the ledge. Her jumping ability also makes Jump Glide's lack of height a non-issue if you're judicious about using your second jump, especially when Lightweight is active. Really the only merit I see for using Warp over Jump Glide is being able to reach the ground more safely, which is something Palutena struggles with when she chooses Jump Glide. Also, the longer activation frames means she can't reliably use Jump Glide to get out of dangerous situations like she can when she runs Warp.

They're both great recovery moves, though, so really it all comes down to personal taste. I'm fine going with either one, but I personally prefer Jump Glide just because it has more possible mix-ups.