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Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to the PAC-MAN MATCHUP THREAD! Here you will be part of the experience. What experience you may ask? Well the experience of arguing with people of who Pac-Man does and doesn't beat, silly. But first let's meet the star of the show:
IT'S PAC-MAN!
Artist rendering
The Ghost Gobbler himself. Pac-Man has a wife and a kid but that doesn't matter. He always looks at the positive and never ceases to a-MAZE (get it?) everyone around him.
Height: About yea high
Weight: More than a breadbox
Favorite Food: Favorite?
Goals and Aspirations: Can I eat those?
And now let's meet the special guest character:
THE PAC-MAN BOARD
found off the internet using Google
The Pac-Man Board is a place where people of all skill levels of Pac-Man can come together and help each other grow as a community and show the world what Pac-Man can do. However the Pac-Man board is in trouble. You see, the average Pac-Man board member is an endangered species threatened by the dominance of other smash characters. These characters rise to the top and assert their rule over all that they can. Slowly dwindling down the population of the lesser character's board until it's a hollow wasteland of its former self. That doesn't need to happen. For the price of a small jet airliner you can help save this endangered race. With your contribution we can build a wildlife sanctuary where Pac-Man board members can run free of fear from the likes of Sheik, ZSS, and Mario. Other efforts have been in vain as new invasive species have been slowly encroaching in and have been called "DLC Characters." These characters are from a foreign land and are unopposed in the natural order. It is only a matter of time before the dominate species fail to contain these new species and chaos ensues in the smash kingdom. Don't let the Pac-Man board member become the way of the Dodo. Please show your support by suggesting a new character to discuss and be an active participant in the discussion. Thank you for your time.
Guess what guys? I consolidated the info from the previous thread into this one. I didn't make it large cause I wasn't sure how the table would handle it. I can add more if you think it's too sparse. I also am only taking info from this thread and the old one. Nowhere else.
I'm not a fan of ratios but if everyone wants them I can add them. I made some assumptions:
No customs
Player understands Pac-Man's combos
You'll look at the most recent postings
Characters | Pros | Cons | Stage Picks (Ban) | Most Recent Discussion | Videos |We can out-space Mario. We can pellet heal off of fireballs. Trampoline ruins Mario’s grab game.|His CQC is better than ours. Can KO easier. Cape comes out quick, is spammable, and reflects everything.|Have a trampoline on the ground between Pac-Man and Mario at all times. Pac-Man can easily pellet heal off of fireballs that Mario doesn’t follow. Offstage, try to hit Mario out of his double jump. Mario can easily rack up damage so don’t let him in.|
#296OldThread |Luigi cyclone offstage doesn't hurt our recovery much. Luigi also cannot punish a whiffed trampoline hit so use it to get out of anything. We can pellet heal off of fireballs or we can leave it and block future grounded fireballs. Smash attacks are more safe on block because of Luigi's butter shoes. Luigi has a harder time approaching Pac-Man and combined with Pac-Man's trampoline Luigi can have a hard time staying in on him.|Luigi can cyclone through hydrant if coming at an angle. Luigi has better damaging moves than Pac-Man and can easily rack up damage. Don't try using or launching the hydrant much. He can easily launch the hydrant. Has an easier time killing Pac-Man than Pac-Man does against Luigi. Luigi is also harder to edgeguard because he can do a rising cyclone without jumping and it beats all fruits and hydrant. His side B is stopped by fruit and treat his up B like Mario's.|Walled Omega Stages, FD, Duck Hunt (Battlefield, Lylat)|Haven't done it yet in thread yet but on the Discord server so join if you haven't yet. |Pac-Man uses fruit|She uses veggies, yuck|Parents never tell you to eat your fruit|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man's smaller|He's huge|Bigger is always better|Haven't done it yet |Bell is good against Yoshi, Yoshi has trouble getting Momentum if he has none. Yoshi has a tough time against shields as well. Bonus Fruit can block eggs if spaced poorly|Eggs won't be spaced poorly, Yoshi has a better airgame and mobility, Combos better and has staying power|Depending on who you ask this Matchup is anywhere from bad to even. Pac-Man can edgeguard Yoshi with bell setups. This is a matchup where the character that has the better momentum wins. If playing defensively doesn't work against Yoshi, rush him down and see if that works better.|
#63OldThread |Hydrant almost always beats Rosa’s UAir. We can use Gravitational Pull to pellet heal. Key shreds through Luma and hits Rosa. Hydrant stops Luma from coming back if between Rosa and the Luma.|Gravitational Pull ruins all the fruit setups so Key is really the only one worth using at around midrange. Rosa has more range and more kill power.|The most iconic counter to Pac-Man for most people is Rosalina. Those people are wrong. Pac-Man can place hydrants to bait out Gravitational Pull then pellet heal off of it. Key is the only fruit Rosa can’t stop reliably at midrange. Use other fruits at your discretion. Rush Rosalina down once Luma is gone to rack up damage. Don’t let Rosalina get the lead or you will have a tough time getting it back.|
#222OldThread |We get excercise|He gets to sit in a car all day|Pac-Man vs. Machine|Haven't done it yet |Most fruits beat bikes. Dash attack is safe on Wario’s shield. Pac-Man out-spaces Wario.|Wario has a better airgame. Chomp eats fruits and heals him and charges his waft. Wario can KO earlier.|This matchup can go either way. Wario doesn’t care about Pac-Man’s long range game but Pac-Man doesn’t care about Wario’s either. Wario’s Chomp comes out quick and beats Pac-Man’s standard attacks. Pac-Man can gimp Wario offstage but Wario can do it as well.|
#387OldThread |Pac-Man is younger than him|But not by much|Pac-Man is more recognizable|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man is wearing shoes|DK has a tie. He's bigger, stronger and faster to. He's the first member of the DK crew|DK looks more sophisticated|Haven't done it yet |We can edgeguard Diddy, Trampoline makes it harder for Diddy to approach, Bananas can setup some nice fruit combos. Hydrant can be useful here.|Diddy's CQC is better, his FAir outranges ours. Diddy can hit hard if we let him.|Take his banana and set up fruit combos. make it a pain for Diddy to approach and punish. Don't let Diddy gain momentum. Avoid getting grabbed.|
#90OldThread
(Hoohah era. Very dated) |Pac-Man's girlfriend never gets kidnapped|Hra! Shrah! Eeyah!|Link, he come to town! Come to save, the princess Zelda. Pac-Man doesn't have her though|We never officially done it yet |Pac-Man has no ears|Zelda's ears are pointy|I got nothing|Haven't done it yet |Fruits can block needles. Sheik has trouble launching hydrant. Sheik has problems KOing.|Sheik can camp out Pac-Man if she grabs fruit. Sheik can combo, can pressure Pac-Man.|Sheik can be very hard for Pac-Man. NAir can break Sheik’s combos if they overextend then. Sheik doesn’t have very many moves that launch a hydrant and even then they need to be fresh. If done right Sheik will respect the hydrant. Approach with Melon to block the needles.|
#302OldThread |Pac-Man has a great personality|He's the king of darkness|Ganondorf only cares about outward appearances|Haven't done it yet |I thought we already did this one|Are there two Links?|That ain't fair|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man doesn't have a mean nickname|She's called Spamus for a reason|Lovely spam, wonderful spam. Lovely spam, wonderful spam. Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam, lovely spam, lovely spam. Spam spam spam spam.|Haven't done it yet |Our neutral is better. Our long range game is better.|Her air game is way better. She can combo. Flip Kick is annoying.|First off, don’t go into the air, she’ll win. Pac-Man can pellet heal off of her paralyzer but watch out for the dash grab/attack follow up. Flip kick jump towards her and airdodge to beat and punish it. Keep her from gaining momentum and it shouldn’t be too hard. Avoid Battlefield.|
#172OldThread |Pac-Man doesn't need to be told what to do|Lady Palutena is guiding him|If the gods start bickering it might distract Pit long enough for Pac-Man to win|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man is awesome|She's a goddess|Release the Chaos Kin|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man is gorgeous|Marth is even more gorgeous|Beat him with the ugly stick to sap him of his power|Haven't done it yet |It's anyone's guess what Pac-Man fights for|Ike fights for his frends|Ike's friends are lame so this matchup should be easy as long as you don't lose sight of what you're fighting for. What's that? You don't know? I'm not helping you.|Haven't done it yet |Robin? You ain't no bird.|Robin has a squiggly sword|Have Robin marry Lucina to make things awkward with Chrom. If Robin is a girl, make her marry Chrom. It'll be awkward for Lucina|Haven't done it yet |Hello|Hiiii|Bye|Haven't done it yet |Dedede's a self-proclaimed king|The Waddle Dees don't know that|Ask him to join you on your adventure|Haven't done it yet |It's just Kirby with a mask|He also has a sword|Oh snap!|Haven't done it yet |The Yellow Bane of Ghosts|Bruiser from the Bronx|"Hit 'em baby!"|Haven't done it yet |We can easily gimp Fox's recovery. Bonus fruit beat lasers|Slower, Fox can't gimp as easily but he can edgeguard. Can slip through hydrant/trampoline setups. Fox has a reflector|Fox is a character that can be played offensively and defensively. Defensive Fox isn't that bad, Offensive Fox though, watch out. He can get in on Pac-Man and do some nasty damage. Try to get Fox off stage and edgeguard with fruits/tilts/smashes. They all beat his side B. Tough matchup for Pac-Man.|
#352OldThread
(Picks up on Page 10) |Personally Falco Prefers the air|His ground game isn't bad either|Do a barrel roll|Haven't done it yet |We can pellet heal off of Thunderbolt. Hydrant can be launched easily after 1-2 Thunderbolts. Galaxians and higher beat Thunderbolts.|Hard to gimp Pikachu. Quick Attack goes through the hydrant. Thunder is annoying. His aerials hurt.|Pikachu will likely use Thunderbolt at long range and either approach or camp. Shut down the camping Thunderbolts to force an approach. Key is a good fruit in this matchup to stop Thunderbolt-spam. Pikachu will also quick attack into Pac-Man to get through everything. FTilt can punish if Pikachu ends quick attack next to you and you shielded.|
#161OldThread |Charizard's not a dragon type|He's level 100|I hoped you saved that master ball from saving the president of Silph Co.|Haven't caught him yet |Lucario is voiced by Goku|Complete with the saiyan trait of suffering a near death exerpience makes you stronger|Kamehameha!|Haven't caught him yet |Pac-Man looks super swag when he falls asleep|He's still asleep|Drink some coffee before fighting Jigglypuff|Haven't caught her yet |Greninja got nerfed|Greninja isn't the worse in the game|Better nerf Greninja|Haven't caught him yet |Waka waka|Bark Bark. Quack|Fly away|
Doing it now |Fruit goes through, doesn’t block though, ROB’s laser. Pac-Man can take his gyro and camp. He can edgeguard ROB rather easily.|ROB’s laser pierces hydrant. He can edgeguard Pac-Man. ROB has a reflector but it’s not that great or used much. UAir beats hydrant. ROB has a kill throw/combo.|ROB can be tough. ROB can hit Pac-Man from anywhere with laser while Pac-Man can as well, he is slower at it. Avoid dropping hydrants above ROB as he will win every time. ROB can be comboed easily and ROB’s aerials are slow but have good range. Don’t hit the hydrant until ROB uses his laser or Pac-Man can insta-launch it.|
#401Oldthread |That's a sweet hat|Can you imagine if Pac-Man wore it?|He would look pretty sweet|Haven't done it yet |Trampoline destroys Falcon's grab game. Ftilt can beat Falcon's grounded dashing options except for powershield. Can be gimped and edgeguarded.|Hard to keep Falcon away. He can combo Pac-Man for good damage. CQC is better than Pac-Man's.|Use trampoline to keep Falcon out and FTilt/jabs to stop any dash attempts. Shield Aerial attacks and edgeguard Falcon hard offstage.|#3 (This page)|
Video1Video2Video3 |Pac-Man's goofy|He stares into your soul ever watchful; unblinking|Go to another town|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man fights by himself|Olimar brings his friends|To be fair, Pac-Man brings his enemies too|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man has a leggings outfit|They're just for show|"Feel the burn in your thighs and glutes!"|Haven't done it yet |Mario went to college for a medical degree|You won't be on his patient list|Sue him for malpractice anyway|Haven't done it yet |I call him Tip. No he isn't a recolor of Pit.|He's an imperfect clone of Pit created when Pit tried breaking a mirror|Original Character do not steal|He'll get done when Pit gets done |Marth before the hair cut|More gorgeous with longer hair|Too gorgeous!|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man is really feeling it|So is Shulk|Don't worry
He was dead the whole time
|Haven't done it yet |You're Pac-Man|They're Pac-Man|There can only be one|Not sure if we'll do it or if I'll make a serious summary |Capcom doesn't seem to like Megaman|Super Fighting Robot Megaman!|
This is how a typical match between the two play out
|Haven't done it for this game yet |We have projectiles, Trampoline shuts down spindash/ground game|Slower, Harder time KOing, Spinshot is a pain to deal with, Sonic can run through hydrants|This is a harder Matchup. Fruit stops spindashes so throw them out when Sonic comes at you with a spindash. Smart use of the trampoline can shut down Sonic's ground game but be wary of Spinshot. We do much better in the air against Sonic. Sonic destroys us on the ground if we aren't careful. Play patiently and try to keep Sonic out as long as possible. Best fruits are Melon and Key in this matchup.|
#270OldThread |We're the Pokémon Champion|We used the master ball on a Raticate|What are you, stupid?|Haven't caught him yet |Ness minus that sweet hat|He has a stick|Go get the stick boy!|Haven't done it yet |Roy's our boy!|You aren't Roy's boy!|Probably because Pac-Man is a man|Haven't done it yet |Pac-Man always smiles|Ryu is a Grumpasaurus Rex|
Here's a picture of what the match would look like
|Haven't done it yet |Cloud's stuck in Midgar|His hair has gone super saiyan|Only scissors that have obtained super saiyan 2 can cut that hair|Haven't done it yet |Corrin wears everything but shoes|Pac-Man wears nothing but shoes (and gloves).| You know what they say, "No shoes, no service."|Haven't done it yet. |Bayonetta is an angel hunter and Pac-Man is most certainly not an angel|Bayonetta is like if Ryu and ZSS had a baby took Fox's gun and gave her the timer item as a move|Ask your Mom|Haven't done it yet |It's Mii Gunner|No one uses this|It's sad|It'll have to happen at some point |No one uses this|It's Mii Brawler|Why can't there ever be a big tall Mii?|It'll have to happen at some point |I'm finally done the list|It took awhile|I don't want to talk about it|It'll have to happen at some point
It is a trampoline heavy MU. You have to place the trampoline between you and C.F. When he jumps the trampoline to try an aerial against you, utilt x 3 to uair/fair (Only works on low %)
most captain falcons i usually beat by baiting and retreating, and hydrant, falcon has no projectiles so he always has to approach with things like dash grab, its definitely in PAC's favor imo
I think patient, proper Falcon play in this MU beats us 60:40. Much like Sonic, if he ignores the hydrant, he's going to be in our face the entire match with his superior range, raw damage, and grab combos. Unlike Sonic though, we can get some sick combos on him whenever we land a hit since his disadvantage state is pretty terrible and he's a bit easier to edgeguard.
The matchup is actually pretty difficult once you run into a patient falcon. Fighting against a Falcon that is in no hurry to jump over the trampoline, pressures you with advancing short hops to retreating lands, bait your aerial punish with a counter punish is a headache. I think against that kinda falcon though the key is to avoid flat stages, instead of relying on solely the trampoline to key him out use a combination of trampoline, hydrant and your own movement(going between the hydrant and trampolines as well as platforms). It’s a difficult matchup but I think its doable. One of the guys In our regional PR is a Falcon main and he wrecked me real bad this last times we played(in tournament and money match). I am hoping to put a good fight if I see him tonight though.
Pros - - Pac-Man's trampoline in general can mess up with Falcon's game plan. For being a character whom is reliant on footsies in order to transition to his advantage state, Trampoline is a breath of fresh air against Falcon.
- Falcon's moves come out fairly slow, suprisingly, thus trades are more often in our favour if we actually are in the proper range.
- The matchup becomes significantly easier when Falcon is offstage due to his predictable and somewhat short recovery.
- Falcon's method of approach is extremely predictable when it comes to fighting Pac-Man, especially considering his non-existant distance game.
- SHOW ME YOUR MOVES
Cons - - Hydrant isn't as important in this MU compared to others, specifically since Falcon's insane dash speed lets him be one of the few characters who can go through it.
- Falcon takes AGES to kill vertically due to his insane falling speed and weight.
- Falcon's overall speed in both the ground and in the air lets him close the distance between us and him easily, thus set-up is even more crucial than ever. USE TRAMPOLINE A LOT.
- As soon as you make a mistake, Falcon is most likely going to take you out with that brutal punish game. BEWARE OF THAT KNEE, FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY.
Captain Falcon's smash attack has deceptive range so shield if you think it'll barely miss because you probably misjudged the distance. Orange is good for gimping but be prepared to go offstage and drop hydrants. Apples work as well for a mixup.
Also guys I went through the old thread and I did what PEPESPAIN
wanted and put all the matchup summaries in the second post. Let me know what you think.
Captain Falcon's smash attack has deceptive range so shield if you think it'll barely miss because you probably misjudged the distance. Orange is good for gimping but be prepared to go offstage and drop hydrants. Apples work as well for a mixup.
Also guys I went through the old thread and I did what PEPESPAIN
wanted and put all the matchup summaries in the second post. Let me know what you think.
Amazing job thanks. We need something like that !!!
PS: I will add a column to add the best videos that represent that match, I mean we can vote 5 videos to add in that column or something good that happend playing against C. F.
Amazing job thanks. We need something like that !!!
PS: I will add a column to add the best videos that represent that match, I mean we can vote 5 videos to add in that column or something good that happend playing against C. F.
I would but It wouldn't fit nicely. I can add the links with the most recent discussion link. We can start with Captain Falcon. I'll take a looksee around the Pac-man forum and see if I can find some videos.
Edit: I say that and then I try adding a column and it fits. Embedding them is a bad idea. I tried. I put two in the chart for Falcon; both by PEPESPAIN because those were the only ones I could find that were any good. If anyone has anyone has any more let me know. I prefer ones from the current patch.
I would but It wouldn't fit nicely. I can add the links with the most recent discussion link. We can start with Captain Falcon. I'll take a looksee around the Pac-man forum and see if I can find some videos.
Edit: I say that and then I try adding a column and it fits. Embedding them is a bad idea. I tried. I put two in the chart for Falcon; both by PEPESPAIN because those were the only ones I could find that were any good. If anyone has anyone has any more let me know. I prefer ones from the current patch.
The past couple of posts haven't been much about captain Falcon and there hasn't been a post in a few days soo... Who wants to talk about someone else? I would like for it to be on someone we haven't done yet.
- Utilt destroys almost every C.F Aerial
- Try to do the Diagonal trampoline instead of vertical one. He can catch you with the vertical one.
- Do a lot of trampolines.Oos Trampoline is really useful on this MU.
- Fair to key as finisher method. I will add the exact % you can perform this tonight.
- You can avoid the uair juggling with Hydrant or dodge jump
Can anyone tell us which % kill C.F for fsmash, Usmash, nair, or key(with and without rage)? It is good to know .
I agree with PEPESPAIN, u tilt is a really underrated move vs Falcon. Combos into itself and nair/sometimes uair, is able to beat his aerials, plus you can perfect-pivot with it.
Based on experience z dropping fruits on the hydrant might not be as good of an option as usual, falcon is insanely quick and can launch it back with a dash attack if he's able to. Only go for stuff like that when you have a substantial amount of space to breathe in and aren't too worried about him punishing your hydrant. Always keep an eye on this guy when trying to do hydrant setups.
Grabbing the fruits themselves is rather annoying at times, since he's very quick grabbing a fruit that requires advancement like galaxian can lead to him getting a nasty down air from above to set up for stuff including knee at high %'s. If you go for grabbing galaxian try to keep falcon either busy with a hydrant or throw it away from falcon towards the ledge. Or both. Key is also hard to get due to how it forces you to go offstage which is where falcon arguably shines the best. Fruits are rather helpful with landing though if you get one, plus if falcon grabs it you can just be in his face with fair hydrant nair utilt w/e until he's forced to throw it. Only good special of his for neutral is side b which only really works well as a kill move and is punishable so he can't exactly camp with a fruit unless he's going for timeout and is just running.
I don't want to say too much else because I don't consider myself the falcon wizard but also I often go for hydrant then retreat if falcon shields fair, he can go for a shieldgrab into like 35% if I nair and he can uair juggle if I immediately double jump. Hydrant forces him to have to deal with it while I have time to reset to neutral, which imo Pac does better in this MU.
I say to pressure his shield with dash attack and z drop tricks all day. Captain falcon doesn't have a grab fast enough to take us out of our third bite before the trampoline, and galaxian combos murder him.
I may be alone in this, but I say that you should go a little more aggressive in this matchup. We can stuff his approaches with tilts, but what we can convert off of single hits in this matchup is huge.
Falcon doesn't care about hydrants and can chase us if we trampoline in nuetral, so I play a more bait and punish game where we force falcon to make a (fatal) mistake and wreck him for it.
Falcon is also free offstage for us and I'm not afraid to catch fruits when he's nearby considering his ability to catch low recoveries isn't the best outside of dair (which we can avoid since it's easy to see coming unless you commit to a recovery move too early)
The number1 player on the 3ds ladder is falcon and I played a lot of games with him today. And I think one thing that is key is to stop him from getting empty hop grabs on you. We are so afraid of the back air that we may stay in shield once falcon is in the air. In which case they'll mix up with grabs. Bair has some start up so once he is close enough to the ground you can just start jabing. Same goes for if he tries to punish your trampoline get away with dash grabs. If you up b hard away from the beginning and fast fall then he should nevet be able to grab you before your jab comes out.
I say to pressure his shield with dash attack and z drop tricks all day. Captain falcon doesn't have a grab fast enough to take us out of our third bite before the trampoline, and galaxian combos murder him.
I may be alone in this, but I say that you should go a little more aggressive in this matchup. We can stuff his approaches with tilts, but what we can convert off of single hits in this matchup is huge.
Falcon doesn't care about hydrants and can chase us if we trampoline in nuetral, so I play a more bait and punish game where we force falcon to make a (fatal) mistake and wreck him for it.
Falcon is also free offstage for us and I'm not afraid to catch fruits when he's nearby considering his ability to catch low recoveries isn't the best outside of dair (which we can avoid since it's easy to see coming unless you commit to a recovery move too early)
Yeah I'm not saying the matchup should be played really stally where we sit on the ledge all day, but as much as Pac-Man can get a lot of mileage off of a single hit vs falcon, falcon can do the same. Because falcon has nasty punishes it isn't a matchup where you can really go balls deep so like you said I'm more preferring of a bait and punish sort of play. Nice fatality pun btw
Completely forgot about offstage, yeah the orange, hydrant, and melon completely destroy falcon when he's recovering. If he loses his double jump and you're able to throw something at him, its over. From my experience though his up b beats most aerials so I would stay just using projectiles to kill him.
Yes, when you perform a trampoline outside run animation it will be a diagonal one instead of vertical one, the distance where pac-man lands is farther
Yes, when you perform a trampoline outside run animation it will be a diagonal one instead of vertical one, the distance where pac-man lands is farther
If we don't know anything else about this MU ,let's do the next one. If someone discover anything about this we can complete de info. We'll return to this one when we do a first step on all MU's.
Koolaid dismantled ntarps(number 1 falcon in New England who wrecked me when we played) at our monthly this weekend. For whatever reason I cannot access the stream archive on my phone the tournament organizer said he would upload videos to YouTube when they are ready.
I think it's provide a lot of insight on how to play the matchup.
Well I wasn't at the tourney so I can only go by what I saw on the stream. I know he took winners quarters, winners semis and winners finals with Pacman(WFs was against Maars, ZSS, number 1 in New England and top 10(possibly top 5) on the east coast)
Edit: Actually I don't know if he used Pacman in winners quarters. But that was against Delta(Luigi) who I've beaten twice with Pacman, it wouldn't make a difference.
Well I watched the rest of the stream. Even though he beat Maars with Pacman in winners finals Maars to set 1 of gfs and he switched to Fox to beat him. I said before though that I don't think its the best idea to solo main Pacman(I made a thread about it) but its really not a good idea to solo main in general. Zero does not, and when Nario won MLG he still switched off ZSS against Esam.
Froggy
Yeah we can do Marth. I'm switching it to Marth, adding that CF to the top and updating the post later cause I don't have a lot of time. I'll update the title now.
I'm not trying to be that guy, but it makes a huge difference when Falcon ignores the hydrant. Every second he wastes with it is more time for us to set something up, which he really shouldn't be giving us. Since he can run through it easily, it shouldn't feel like much cover at all.
Just one day I want to see someone who doesn't play Pac-Man themselves ignore the hydrant in a match. I honestly feel all of our vids are tainted when people keep messing around with the thing for no reason.
That being said, Koolaid played well. One thing we can be sure of is that we can somewhat safely throw out smashes against Falcon while we're standing on the hydrant. It also seems in our best interest to remain mobile in the MU. I'm glad he hasn't dropped the character completely. Additional styles/perspectives are always helpful.
Edit: is spaced Blinky really safe on Mario's shield? I need to look into that.
edit2: Froggy, you say that you've played this guy too and got wrecked. Can you point out anything in specific that KoolAid is doing that you weren't?
Edit3: I'm strongly beginning to believe that FD is one of our worst stages. I didn't think I'd ever think so back i the day, but I think platforms help us a lot more than they hurt.
Edit4: Marss didn't boost kick koolaid for Fair-> whatever in their match. Be careful about doing that, because I'm sure ZSS can boost kick us for it.
I'm not trying to be that guy, but it makes a huge difference when Falcon ignores the hydrant. Every second he wastes with it is more time for us to set something up, which he really shouldn't be giving us. Since he can run through it easily, it shouldn't feel like much cover at all.
Just one day I want to see someone who doesn't play Pac-Man themselves ignore the hydrant in a match. I honestly feel all of our vids are tainted when people keep messing around with the thing for no reason.
That being said, Koolaid played well. One thing we can be sure of is that we can somewhat safely throw out smashes against Falcon while we're standing on the hydrant. It also seems in our best interest to remain mobile in the MU. I'm glad he hasn't dropped the character completely. Additional styles/perspectives are always helpful.
Edit: is spaced Blinky really safe on Mario's shield? I need to look into that.
edit2: Froggy, you say that you've played this guy too and got wrecked. Can you point out anything in specific that KoolAid is doing that you weren't?
Edit3: I'm strongly beginning to believe that FD is one of our worst stages. I didn't think I'd ever think so back i the day, but I think platforms help us a lot more than they hurt.
Edit4: Marss didn't boost kick koolaid for Fair-> whatever in their match. Be careful about doing that, because I'm sure ZSS can boost kick us for it.
I don't think Falcon can completely ignore the hydrant the way sonic can. even though he can run through it I think the water still affects him. It's never useless in the matchup. In any case it's not like running at Pac man is the most effective strategy anyways, our problem is with patient falcons not aggressive ones.
My current theory craft is that fd and sv are bad against rush down and good against low characters. the inverse is true for be and dl with some exceptions.
Contrary to my theory craft I made the mistake if going double sv against him, in addition I also went with the camping behind the trampoline strategy which is not so effective against patent falcon. One thing incredible about kool-aid a plan is that his neutral is not dependent upon the hydrant and trampoline. He blocks, rolls, jump and counter attacks like he is a regular character.
I'm not sure about the forward air but a number of times Maars tried them boost kick and koolaid hit him out of it, it's not invincible on start up.
Me and Koolaid play so similarly that it's kinda surreal...
He needs to optimize his ledge play though. He has a great nuetral (although he needs to stop running into shield, like I do too often...) but he is predictable in disadvantage and doesn't go for enough gimps.
I don't see any real reason to make rules blocking discussion on past characters, especially considering it's going to be significantly harder finding high level tournament gameplay of Marth v Pacman. We only really need to update the index if something insane is discovered (like Greninja being able to 100% shadow sneak out of Boost Kick and ZSS f-smash, or 1.1.shieldstun).
IMO one of the major issues other boards have had is that they burn out and go nowhere/decide they want to revisit a character after x discussion and never do. IMO we should just set a current main topic character every x time period and try to get some general combat tips for every character, back-editting in important stuff that's brought up for old characters.
|We can out-space Mario. We can pellet heal off of fireballs. Trampoline ruins Mario’s grab game.|His CQC is better than ours. Can KO easier. Cape comes out quick, is spammable, and reflects everything.|Have a trampoline on the ground between Pac-Man and Mario at all times. Pac-Man can easily pellet heal off of fireballs that Mario doesn’t follow. Offstage, try to hit Mario out of his double jump. Mario can easily rack up damage so don’t let him in.|
