Optimal controller set ups for ZZS?

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

Hey so I just got this game yesterday and its great! I'm loving it so far! Are there any controller set ups. Besides the basic "switch C-Stick to attack instead of smash, and turn off tap jump I should be aware of? It seems like tap jump is good on ZSS? From what I could tell playing around in training mode at least. Nice short hop aerials without the unnecessary or mistaken spacing you get using the A button.

 

[Take 5]

I leave tap jump off to prevent accidental jumps. However, that makes it harder to up B or up smash out of shield. So I map the L button to jump and press L + up B or L + up smash to up B/up smash out of shield.

I also hear some folks like to map Z to jump, but I'm so used to using Z for Z-air that it feels unnatural.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I leave tap jump off to prevent accidental jumps. However, that makes it harder to up B or up smash out of shield. So I map the L button to jump and press L + up B or L + up smash to up B/up smash out of shield.

I also hear some folks like to map Z to jump, but I'm so used to using Z for Z-air that it feels unnatural.

I do the exact same thing, L for jumping just feels so right.

 

[Sonny Franceschi]

in a gamecube controller, i think the best thing is tap off, and change the R trigger to jump, to do up b out of shield

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

in a gamecube controller, i think the best thing is tap off, and change the R trigger to jump, to do up b out of shield

What does jumping and the R trigger have to do with pressing Up B out of shield?

 

[David Viran]

What does jumping and the R trigger have to do with pressing Up B out of shield?

You can jump cancel up b so you don't get sheild drop frames.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Tap jump off. Set y to special so I can roll my finger across x and y for up b Oos. R is special, c stick is attack. Those last two are for the wave bounce. Hold the control stick one direction in air and hit the c stick in the opposite direction while hitting special (r trigger) on the same frame.

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

Tap jump off. Set y to special so I can roll my finger across x and y for up b Oos. R is special, c stick is attack. Those last two are for the wave bounce. Hold the control stick one direction in air and hit the c stick in the opposite direction while hitting special (r trigger) on the same frame.

Interesting just googled it and found a video. Your technique for b reversing / wave bouncing (I'm assuming there the same thing). Is interesting as well. I can do it pretty consistently... but find it difficult only using the control stick to do it. Does this make it easier to do / more consistent? In my experience it seems like you always have to hit b by itself first and then the stick literally like a fraction of a section later. If you go in the opposite direction too soon or at the same time you side b. Clearly I have some experimenting to do.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Interesting just googled it and found a video. Your technique for b reversing / wave bouncing (I'm assuming there the same thing). Is interesting as well. I can do it pretty consistently... but find it difficult only using the control stick to do it. Does this make it easier to do / more consistent? In my experience it seems like you always have to hit b by itself first and then the stick literally like a fraction of a section later. If you go in the opposite direction too soon or at the same time you side b. Clearly I have some experimenting to do.

I had to get some advice for it. It seems the system I described is one method, and the other.... well I've never got it to work before. So. If you are moving right in the air, you would have to flick the control stick left, let it return to neutral, hit B, then slam the control stick right. Something like that. It's tough. The attack-stick + B method is a lot nicer.

Also, b-reversing turns you around and changes your momentum. Wave bouncing changes your momentum, but DOES NOT turn you around.

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

I had to get some advice for it. It seems the system I described is one method, and the other.... well I've never got it to work before. So. If you are moving right in the air, you would have to flick the control stick left, let it return to neutral, hit B, then slam the control stick right. Something like that. It's tough. The attack-stick + B method is a lot nicer.

Also, b-reversing turns you around and changes your momentum. Wave bouncing changes your momentum, but DOES NOT turn you around.

My control set up currently looks like this thanks to you guys L - for jump, no tap, c-stick for attack, Y for special, R is on shield. Up b and Up smash out of shield are extremely easy to do... and great technique to pick up. All you literally have to do is hold up while shielding and then press jump and b or a at the same time and you do the tech without fail every time. Which is extremely easy for me with L being jump and R being shield my hands don't have to move at all. Now I have other options for people who make contact with my shield besides shield grab lol once I get use to incorporating it in my game. Now just need to figure out a way to make b reversing and wave bouncing as easy intuitive and my game will jump up a lot. I was getting some funky stuff happening with the c-stick (wave bouncing) I believe.

EDIT: Have no problems b-reversing with mario did it about 10 times in a row lol. I'm assuming the timing is different per character. His short hops are a lot easier to.

 

[Mariofan13]

I play both ZSS and Ike with L/X for Jump, R/Z for shield, Y for grab and A-Sticking and tap jump off, and I ell pretty good with those settings (GC conroller).

 

[ninrok]

I leave tap jump off to prevent accidental jumps. However, that makes it harder to up B or up smash out of shield. So I map the L button to jump and press L + up B or L + up smash to up B/up smash out of shield.

I also hear some folks like to map Z to jump, but I'm so used to using Z for Z-air that it feels unnatural.

Same here, except I swap R for jump, L feels too natural for shield to me.

I'm still working on actually using it during a match, though, lol. Not used to having that as an option (working on my OoS game in general).

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

gc controller
tab jump off
z jump
l,r,y shield
x grab
c stick tilts

 

[Kingslayer77]

Hello. I'm new to this website and i've mained zss since brawl. Can someone please tell me why tap jump is recommended to be set to off? Jumping with a button just feels so weird to me...Also, any tips in general to improve my zss? I struggle with small characters and projectile spammers.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Can someone please tell me why tap jump is recommended to be set to off? Jumping with a button just feels so weird to me...

If you have trouble doing up smashes or tilts (depending on which command isn't set on the C-stick) and/or keep jumping out of sheild when you wanna Utilt or Usmash with tap jump on, it's better to set it off.

If you don't, keep it on because it doesn't really matter.

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

Hello. I'm new to this website and i've mained zss since brawl. Can someone please tell me why tap jump is recommended to be set to off? Jumping with a button just feels so weird to me...Also, any tips in general to improve my zss? I struggle with small characters and projectile spammers.

Hey tap jump is set to off. In order to avoid jumping by mistake and allow for easier Utilts. For example you can spot dodge... and during the dodge animation... your already holding up (it won't make you jump) and you hit A. Super quick Utilt / punish for a whiffed grab, dash, attack, etc... depending upon how close they are. Just so happens ZSS Utilt is really good and makes a circle around her on both sides. Depending upon percent you can full jump or short hop and follow up with a Uair. I also imagine it helps to not interrupt more advance strings / tech. Say you've gotten so comfortable with SHFF aerials. That your hitting with Uair like you would a tilt or a jab. Popping them up directly off the ground and following up with more Uairs (sometimes maybe 4 - 5 times in a row). Maybe tap jump could mess this up? I don't know as I turned it off before I started c-sticking and short hopping... and you probably can't land strings like that on a human player anyway. Without being below them on platforms or with some serious spirit breaking pressure most will DI away.

I'd suggest learning to jump with buttons though. Y and L for me. Its all honestly just muscle memory and practice. I didn't realize how much just practicing actually accounted for... although you see it pushed here on the forums all the time. There's a ton on spacing and how aerials should be used so I won't get into that... but one of my favorite things to do. Or benefits of my button set up is short hopping quickly with Y. Just to get myself in the air... and from there I can go in any direction with an aerial... because I'm pressing jump, and picking my aerial momentum at the same. Say you launch someone off the stage. Run to edge back turned and short hop back towards the center... to induce a false sense of security in your opponent and bait an unsafe jump but out of nowhere float backwards in the air and meet them with a Bair stylish stuff.

 

[Kingslayer77]

Also, any advice against yoshi's who always go for the meteor smash? It's really annoying and I don't know how to deal with it.

 

[Retro X]

Also, any advice against yoshi's who always go for the meteor smash? It's really annoying and I don't know how to deal with it.

Mix up your recovery more. ZSS' recovery is one of the most versatile in the game with down, up and side b all offering recovery options. If you see Yoshi coming in horizontally you can just flip jump over him, or drop extra low and side b to the ledge, or (assuming you were smart and saved your jump) drop down very low, use your second jump and then up b to get back to the stage. Another mixup is flip jumping towards the stage to pretend you will recover high, then fade back with an air dodge and get the ledge with side b. Remember, although recovering low is generally safer than recovering high, the safest recovery is really an unpredictable one. Remember not to panic and waste your jump when you get knocked off the stage.

tl;dr if your opponent keeps reading your recovery and spiking you, it's because your recovery is too predictable. You have a ton of options available, mix it up to avoid getting read.

 

[Kingslayer77]

Mix up your recovery more. ZSS' recovery is one of the most versatile in the game with down, up and side b all offering recovery options. If you see Yoshi coming in horizontally you can just flip jump over him, or drop extra low and side b to the ledge, or (assuming you were smart and saved your jump) drop down very low, use your second jump and then up b to get back to the stage. Another mixup is flip jumping towards the stage to pretend you will recover high, then fade back with an air dodge and get the ledge with side b. Remember, although recovering low is generally safer than recovering high, the safest recovery is really an unpredictable one. Remember not to panic and waste your jump when you get knocked off the stage.

tl;dr if your opponent keeps reading your recovery and spiking you, it's because your recovery is too predictable. You have a ton of options available, mix it up to avoid getting read.

Thanks! That should help me out a lot#

 

[Sunstar]

I play with the WiiU-Classic-Controller Pro.
Tap-Jump off (of course)

X = Jump
Y = Special
A = Attack
B = Shield (grounded shield + OOS-grab)
R = Grab
L = Shield (for air-dodges)

(I use C-stick for smashes)

 

[ArikadoSD]

, , and all for jump. (although Z for jump is exclusively for sheik so I never really use it for ZSS)

for grab.

for smash attacks

Tap jump, rumble, and a+b fsmash all off. I've been experimenting setting for tilts but having dsmash come out instantly is too good, and I'm too used to using joystick + A for tilts anyway, even if once every 10 times I'd accidentally do an up smash.

 

[Elixar]

I'm on a Hori GC-but-not-gc-wii-classic-pro-controller and have:
A - Attack
B - Special
X/Y - Jump
R - Jump
L - Grab
ZR/L - Shield (This being because L/R were switched from Classic Pro, so muscle memory)
C-Stick Smashes

When I used Classic Pro:
A/X - Jump
B - Attack
Y - Special
ZR - Jump
ZL - Grab
R/L - Shield (This being because L/R were switched from Classic Pro, so muscle memory)
C-Stick Smashes

 

[Kesno]

I use gamecube controller. X is to shield (I hate the pressure triggers for shielding. I feel it's better for power shielding as well). Tap to jump is off. Y is jump and everything else is just default controls. I'm still debating whether L to jump is a good idea or not. I find myself pressing the Y button with my right index finger to jump out of shield when my right thumb is pressing X to shield. I don't have a problem with dropping my shield to up b. I don't want to take that chance to get punished out of a missed up b just because I wanted to risk those 2-3 frames to try and get my opponent with a up b.

 

[Gombi]

My set-up his : tap jump off

L : jump (only for OSS)
R: shield
Z: grab (but i never use z or almost now. It used to be for jump but now i use Y for jump and my SH is so much more consistant... and my finger hurt less)
X: grab ( For easy zair ... or.... xair ?)
Y:jump
A/B : attack and special attack
C-stick : smash attack

Is my set-up optimised for ZSS ?
What should i do with Z since i almost never use it ?
C-stick what is the advantage to have it to tilt ? i like being able to use down smash really quickly

thanks a lot control mapping always was a burden to choose for me haha

 

[Elixar]

My set-up his : tap jump off

L : jump (only for OSS)
R: shield
Z: grab (but i never use z or almost now. It used to be for jump but now i use Y for jump and my SH is so much more consistant... and my finger hurt less)
X: grab ( For easy zair ... or.... xair ?)
Y:jump
A/B : attack and special attack
C-stick : smash attack

Is my set-up optimised for ZSS ?
What should i do with Z since i almost never use it ?
C-stick what is the advantage to have it to tilt ? i like being able to use down smash really quickly

thanks a lot control mapping always was a burden to choose for me haha

Funny how zair and xair are pronounced the same.
you could set Z to attack for pivot tilts or if you want to do Z aerials without losing momentum due to C-Smash (or was that patched out?)

 

[Gombi]

Funny how zair and xair are pronounced the same.
you could set Z to attack for pivot tilts or if you want to do Z aerials without losing momentum due to C-Smash (or was that patched out?)

Okay my question here might be really stupid but how is Z set to attack different from A to attack with the momentum ?

 

[Elixar]

Okay my question here might be really stupid but how is Z set to attack different from A to attack with the momentum ?

They aren't, the difference is between attack and smash attack for aerials. Somewhere in making custom controls, they screwed up so that smash attacks actually provide different momentum for aerials than using attack, as such, characters such as falcon and ZSS do benefit from switching to A-Sticking.

Since you use C-stick smash, the Z aerials might provide a switch up option for momentum.

A good example of C-stick momentum would be sh bair, without moving the control stick, if you're fast enough with the imput, ZSS will move backwards whilst doing her bair instead of doing it on the spot. Even works when you're walking in the other direction.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I'm in the third iteration of my control scheme, and it keeps getting weirder.

GC Controller
L = Jump
R = Special
X = Jump
Y = Shield
A = Attack
B = Special
C-Stick = Attack

R being special and C-Stick being attack are in place primarily to make wavebouncing easier to do. A neutral special wavebounce with that set up (in the air) consists of moving in a direction in the air with the control stick then hitting the opposite direction + R on the same frame.

C-stick to attack is also useful for maintaining aerial momentum when c-sticking aerials.

Y is shield to give me a digital shield button, which makes shielding more precise than the shoulder triggers allow for (since you can't just remove the springs anymore).

L being jump assists aerial precision. With a standard setup (tap jump off), one must move their right thumb from the jump button to an attack button or the c-stick to do an aerial. That takes time, and sometimes it's optimal to attack more quickly than that. With the L button on jump, the time between the jump and the next attack can be more tightly controlled. For ZSS, this is useful for controlling uair --> uair --> boost kick type combos.

As-is, up B out of shield is performed by holding Y and hitting L and R in quick succession while holding up on the control stick. Up smash out of shield is much harder, and is performed by just dropping the shield and doing jump --> up smash input as fast as I can. I leave it like this for ZSS because up B out of shield is a lot more important.

With all those buttons moved around, I am actually considering moving the B button to something else. Though I currently use that for all my down/side special needs. Without a big technical benefit, I'll probably leave it.