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Online Tournaments with anyone would not work

Acadian Flycatcher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
310
The issue with online tournaments is getting them all sorted out. Mario Kart 8 works because you have time frame to race a specific number of races, and people are always joining as others are finishing up so you have a constant steady stream of people. At the end your points are tallied up.

With Smash and the tournament style present in Melee and Brawl, you run into the issue of actually having dedicated matches between players. This brings a whole new issue of waiting for people, lag issues, and overall inconvenience to it.

Since it's bracket styled, people cannot just jump in and play whenever they have the chance, they have a set time to sign up and a set match time. If they miss the match then that disrupts the bracket, if someone drops out that disrupts the bracket.

If you tried it like MK8 where you battle for top points in a few certain matches, then what is really the difference between doing it in a "tournament" setting when For Fun and For Glory basically already track that information?

So what happens when you finish your match before all the others? What's the incentive for you to stick around and wait it out? Watching and betting on matches is an option, but that thrill doesn't last.

It could 100% work with friends. That way you could specifically invite them into the tournament, have control over how it's set up, and the knowledge that your friends aren't ****ing around on the other end to spoil your experience.

As far as jumping into a random tournament with strangers, that will never work. It will be way too much waiting for enough players to join, waiting for matches to end, people dropping out or losing connection and disrupting the brackets. With nothing more on the line than some points you can get while playing random matches, there's no reason to take part.

There are just so many other things to do in Smash Bros that it'll be impossible for you to stare at a bracket waiting for your next match without quitting and jumping into a quick match. Mario Kart and Mario Golf work because those tournaments don't rely on playing specific people. They offer a few golf courses to play, or tracks to race on within a certain timeframe, and tally up the best scores. But you are never specifically pitted against an individual in order to progress. You race against whoever else is racing at the time, you play against whoever else is on the course at the time. You don't progress up a bracket where your opponent is determined for you, you just add to your score as you continue to race different people. Those 11 other racers in the Mario Kart tournament are independently racing to get their own high score, half of those racers won't even be in the next race because they already finished the tournament. You are just part of that race, you aren't specifically racing against that **** from Great Britain, you are racing against a racer. Smash Bros. you are 100% dependent on a certain individual in order to complete your match.

There has been a lot of fuss about the lack of online Tournament options mentioned at this time, I'm just letting you know there is realistically no reason to be wishing for this function outside of playing with friends.
 
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Nielicus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
1,068
So it won't work because people can't be patient? But I do see your point, it's totally possible Nintendo can host tournaments or people like GameXplain can. But I think you mean RANDOM tournaments can't happen
 

Acadian Flycatcher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
310
So it won't work because people can't be patient? But I do see your point, it's totally possible Nintendo can host tournaments or people like GameXplain can. But I think you mean RANDOM tournaments can't happen
I 100% agree with these big names hosting their own tournaments.

GameXplain does well with weekly MK8 tournaments so their promotion would be great and they would already have a dedicated group of individuals wanting to take part. Nintendo could offer some prize or something to give players an incentive to want to win. And lots of notice so people can clear their calendars for it.

If these tournaments want to work, there needs to be some pre-production to them. You cannot expect to jump into a random tournament at the last minute and expect a great experience all the way through.
 
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Nielicus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
1,068
I 100% agree with these big names hosting their own tournaments.

GameXplain does well with weekly MK8 tournaments so their promotion would be great and they would already have a dedicated group of individuals wanting to take part.

The problem with random tournaments is that you have no connect with anything happening, so it's not a big deal to you if you quit half way through.
Yeah, Agreed:4pacman:
 

LeeYawshee

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Messages
904
Location
Florida
3DS FC
2621-3044-6895
This is a pretty random topic, but you make nothing but good points.

Very well written.
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
If bracket style tournament is too hard to organize, Round Robin Pools might serve as an alternative that fairs similarly to MK8 scoring points and whatnot. Probably wouldn't be as popular, but it'd be more convenient, since everyone plays everyone whenever someone is available, rather than having to wait on people that made be late on a schedule, or have to disrupt the bracket with several byes; the people that miss a match could just have their matches not count on other players' scores.
 

Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
2,185
Location
Toronto
I never really saw public tournaments being possible to begin with, they'd always be organized on here or reddit and be done via adding friends and having a private tournament. Never considered we'd try to make a public format work, because it'd be a mess
 

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
5,976
Location
Wisconsin
Well topic is outa nowhere, but why not let an expert in online hosting help ya out. My experience: I was the largest TO for PSASBR which housed it's entire scene online. It means I literally got to host probably 100 online events of some kind with brackets from double elimination to round robin, and including singles and doubles.

Here's how it goes. You'd need to have the event advertised somewhere online to begin with to attract players. Smashboards, the subredddit, gamefaqs, /v/, you find a smash site that lets you, go for it and advertise! Pick a specific date and time and be sure to post your ruleset you intend to use.

Now, you've attracted a bunch of players and set a date and time, how do you host it? A live chatroom works best. SUPER important, this chatroom can't allow anonymous members, you need to make people log in and be able to have good moderation tools PLUS the ability to private message. Players need to be able t talk to each other to manage matches, and you don't want trolls to come in and ruin your events by pretending to be other folks and reporting random results and the like (I had a 50 man bracket ruined by that once, never again). Get everyone into the chatroom and about a half hour before the event starts start to take sign ups. Have a challonge bracket already ready to put names into, and use a word document as you take names so you can make an easy copy/paste version to add players.

Start the tournament EXACTLY when you say you will. Do NOT let late people enter, you gotta be extra strict as a TO online as that issue you mentioned with how much downtime people can have is HUGE. You gotta get people playing and not be afraid to disqualify those who do not take the event seriously or are not jumping right into matches.

If people can't connect keep trying if you can, if they can't connect you might have to make a really tough judgment call to DQ someone. You can always try to connect them to a neutral host as well which can do wonders. PSASBR has HORRID netcode (worse then Brawl probably and even a REALLY big issue of hosting priority) so if it could be done there, we can do it here.,

You'll have to have a CRAZY fast set of fingers and eyes to keep up with people reporting matches and putting the link up for everyone to see the brackets so they can keep their matches rolling. PSASBR didn't have timers and stock possible so we had crazy long events, with smash it should be doable within good time if you just push the event forward as a TO.

If you could stream the events, it'll help a bit for people on their down time. Other then that, let people chat and try to create as much hype as you can. It sucks but it's not impossible.

TLDR; Online Events are 100% possible if done right.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
Just like Pokemon tournaments ever since Diamond and Pearl, it's simple enough. Either stretch the tournament out over days or weeks and tell the matchups that they are responsible for reporting the outcome of the game (TF2 tournaments are also done like this), or schedule times and give players a few minutes leeway to account for clock differences. If one person doesn't show and the other can prove it, they're disqualified or given a loss depending on tournament format.

It's really not hard. You don't have to transition immediately from one match to the next.
 

JCDied4U

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
226
NNID
Sieger
A king of the hill mode would be pretty cool as a 1v1 option for online. People can watch the king's play style to figure out how to beat him/her but the king can also change characters each round to throw off opponents. It would be a lot of fun imo.
 
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