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Once Again Seeking Critique on my Marth

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Apopka, Fl
Well, I've posted a video recently but I'm kinda embarrassed of how pathetic it was. Not to say I'm that much better now, but I feel as though I've improved atleast somewhat. So I'm starting anew so I can distance myself from that vid. This is a match between me, SOPF, and my cousin, Oreo. Any advice would be appreciated and for those who posted on my last vid I would like to say thanx and I hope you can help me again. I plan to post some more vids soon.
Note: I just bought a new controller a day prior to these vids' recording so if there are any random jumps or U-smashes when a U-tilt should have been used that is why.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dPJAkn9q2RU

This is another match. Sadly, I lose:( Sorry about the vid quality, near the end especially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IsLugxFkiQ

Here's a new match of me and Oreo. I'm kind of proud of how I did when he got me to my last life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Uqdj9kFwQ

Ok, finally some new vids. As of right now I only have 1 but Oreo should be putting the rest on Youtube soon so when that happens I'll post those as well.
Note: I ****ed up in this vid a bit but it was my fault. Not my proudest match.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DXGqG76Aps8

I got nothing to say about this match.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u6kzkJqiiEE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ydfu5xn_81Q
 

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
Firstoff, nice starting approach and catching him with the dancing blade..you should have continued that combo as the dancing blade actually keeps falcon in its combo well but good job with it and not getting punished.

You got a grab in but then missed your tech chase..not that bad but heres the problem, he went away from you and you actually backed off, taking off the pressure...you had the upper hand so you should have kept on.

.27..try not to let falcon hump you, he has sweet words but don't fall for it.
but seriously, I believe you went for the spike, if so, oh well..but don't take added damage for no reason...

learn to defend yourself abit better in the air, you seemed to be getting hurt the worst there...at the makeshift combo around .38, you could have stopped it and prevented the on coming d-air from falcon.

Decent edgeguard at 1.16 but when falcon gets offstage, that should be a stock for you if he has to use that up-b of his.

At higher damages, marth can't combo into his kill moves so its best to try and land a n-air over trying to vertical kill him like you did.

at around the 2:20 minute mark..both of you got abit sloppy and really scared of each other..try not to get under pressure. At 2:30 you grabbed falcon when your back was right at the ledge and you up-threw him...WHY! a backthrow that close to the ledge would have been easy edgeguarding.

3:25, after the f-throw, you jumped offstage?...seems you are trying too hard for the kill. if you would have edgeguarded, it might have been a stock for him.

great spike though..

but it sucked to be cut off like that.

You seemed to be having approach problems despite your good starting approach. Your spacing still isn't too good as you're having trouble getting your grabs in and tech chasing. I didn't see any sheildgrabs either and many times they would have done well. besides general sloppiness, your marth isn't too bad off, just keep practicing...and start developing some mindgames as I seen none.
 

Hyperion

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
30
What exactly do you mean my no mindgames? He dash dances a ton, and it seems to fake the guy out. I'm still developing my playing style, so could you give me some examples of mindgames? Maybe link me to a video and point out where he does them, then describe what to do.

Thanks! Sorry for invading the thread...
 

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
Dashdancing isn't a mindgame, it helps be unpredictable...he didn't really use it in an unpredictable way though, I could secondguess his moves easily. He mostly used it as a tech-chase and to move about when he was under pressure. Abit needlessly but it helps with spacing so I suppose its good for him to be doing that, as hes learning.

Mindgames isn't a good word...trickery is much better.

making your foe do a certain move, di a certain way...etc..

A good example would be to consistently throw your foe in the same direction, like the f-throw..of course hes going to be di-ing away from you now since he expects the f-throw but thats when you would back throw, making him di right into f-smash range..thats just a light example so don't take it and run.

Some examples carry risks..putting yourself in a vunerable position for the sole sake of surprising them...its hard to explain in simple words. At mid damages I've let falcons get under me and u-air (if they consistently do that) so they would chase me offstage..I'd gain enough height from their attack to d-air them and manage to make it back...very horrid example though as that will get you killed.

Mookierah explains "mindgames" best in his threads.
 

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Apopka, Fl
Thanks BlueDeath for the advice. I should be putting up a new video soon and I incorporated, a little bit of mindgame work. I got better at the tech chasing thing ( the term tech chase thing sounds noobish, my bad, I know how you want to rid the Marth boards of complete noobishness. lol)
What you said about the Dancing Blade helped me out as did the "if your opponent is off the stage he should be killed" suggestion. Could you let me know if I'm better in this vid than the last one though because I wanna chart my improvement.
Hyperion, as to the mindgame comment, the problem I had in the vid isn't a matter of the dash dancing, it's how predictable I was. Randomness throws people off and allows you to keep yourself from developing a pattern. Sadly, I lack randomness but I'm working on it. If you can't see that flaw in my play then you probably have a ways to go in terms of bettering yourself in this game, as due I.
 

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
I like you SOPF,you are the smarter version of a beginner. thats why I watch yours and critique

Besides, you're actually listening to the advice and not agruing over it.

I watched the second video.

Your spacing is still bad but thats going to take a long time to get better. Your tech-chasing has definitely improved abit.

At 0.43, I hope you realized he was in f-smash tipper range...you didn't go for it, you just watched him.

At .54, he was on a platform and you were close on the ground as he techrolled..a wavedashed f-smash would have done great. Same with 1.00, you were right under the platform that he was on yet you didn't f-smash him.

Getting in that trees groove wasn't such a good idea..don't put yourself in odd positions unless you know how to handle it.

At air-dodge at 2.04 may have seemed stupid to some people but it surprised the falcon and made him mess up his aerial so sopf capitalized on it, risky but worked...reframe from being THAT random lol.

At 2.15, you had the right idea getting off that platform as fast as possible.

2.30, he was on the ground, begging to be f-smashed or d-tilted..you didn't do either.
Then at 2.36, you tried a horrible spaced d-air when edgeguarding should have been easy.

2.49, falcon was on the platform infront of you..it screamed f-smash..you uptilted..you need to be trying to take falcon's life quickly, not bulid up damage.

Random f-smash at 3.00, don't do this. around 3.45-ish, he was on the platform for quite some time, plenty of f-smash attempts. another random f-smash at 3.50..

You up-bed from the ledge, why?..and then you used your standing up attack against falcon, and you learned thats a bad idea...as it leads to easy grabs or attacks, in your case, the knee.

You didn't use the platforms in your advantage what so ever and its one of marth's good advantages on stages like that. I know I'm screaming f-smash when they are on platforms which is predictable and spammy but you've really got to get those early kills against falcon as when he gets higher damages, its extremely hard to kill unless you land a tippered n-air or a lucky f-smash. Your edgeguarding got alittle better though and you were less predictable...keep practicing.
 

Pasqual

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
316
Location
Portland, OR
The newer vid: like I said in Oreo's thread, this wasn't you guys' best match. Good spacing on the first kill though.

When your opponent uses a move with a lot of winddown and whiffs it, you need to get back to the ground/on top of them faster. Whenever a CF misses a Raptor Boost, try to land and get something in.

Mix up your edgeguarding a little more too. You know Oreo's got those ledge techs so space the dtilts and fsmashes a little farther out so he can't tech. Also, if you force him to recover back to the map by edgehogging, try not to ledgehop upB, at least against CF. You'd be better off with a ledgehopped uair or ledgehop waveland grab.
 

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Apopka, Fl
I'm gonna be a freakin beginner forever:( lol
F-SMASH, main objective, got it. I should try to get the quick kill in, we'll see how Oreo deals with that. My vengeance shall rend both his Falcon and spirit (evil laugh)

Thanks Pasqual, I gotta work on that spacing and your right about getting around his ledge techs. The up B was just an attempt at randomness that backfired. My bad. DOODOO BUTTER for everyone who helped me out thanks guys.
 

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
How nice to ask for me specificly. I'm going to be abit nitpicky but I suppose you like that.

Abit sloppy starting with an off dash attack and approach but you did well at keeping the falcon controlled with grabs. When throwing falcon off the stage for d-tilting as he comes back, time it abit better as he will most likely have his second jump.

At 40 seconds, you threw away your edgeguarding attempt by jumping, you should have just waited and f-smashed or d-tilted. Bout 52 seconds, he was on a platform and you were under..you moved and tried an u-air, remember that if hes on a platform with decent damage, he gets f-smash tippered.

At 56 seconds, you should have just fell and used your second jump as he had it instead of over-bing, it causes you to become a much easier target.

At 1.20ish, he was laying on the ground and you ran at him, let him move first. The following kill at 1.40ish you could have survived if you stalled over-bed first then fell abit and used your second jump then stalled again before up-b. Nice trade of blows afterward for the kill though.

Once again about 2.10, how using the over-b asks for being kneed..but you made it back safely. Decent attempt at edgeguarding him at 2.30 but you really need to perfect your guarding as its one of marths strong points. For example, at 2.43, you could have ledgehopped a d-air and it would have been a stock..that edgeguarding technqiue works very well on falcon and ganon.

At 2.48, why did you charge the smash? It would have hit if you didn't. Good ending combo


Overall your spacing has improved and your grab game is looking much better. Work on edgeguarding abit more and being abit more defensive. Keep improving.
 

edgeswipe21

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
280
i think that ur marth is pretty good in tech skills..ummm..i don't know if i should be commenting but don't mind :). Oh and i was gona say that u rush a bit much, stay calm and mentally controll the game, try pshyc him out.
 

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Apopka, Fl
You know, I started to realize that just recently. I do need to relax and start controlling him. Thanks for the advice Edgeswipe21.
 

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
107
Location
Apopka, Fl
Sorry about double posting but I just wanted to bump this up so I can get some new critiques. Only the last video is recent so please just let me know what you think.
 
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