Olimar useable?

[Wigglybear]

Olimar was my main and brawl and from the looks of it he's trash in this new game . Is he really one of the worst characters in this game or are people just not using him effectively?

 

[Myran]

Olimar was my main and brawl and from the looks of it he's trash in this new game . Is he really one of the worst characters in this game or are people just not using him effectively?

I don't know about worst, but he isn't as good as he was in Brawl. He has good kill moves, and can still camp. He just has trouble with faster characters who pressure him well. If you want to continue playing him I'd say go for it, and maybe try to pick up a secondary for match ups that give your Olimar trouble.

 

[Shuckle89]

I don't know. Didn't play him much in brawl, but I don't think he's that bad. Mainly because he doesn't have tether recovery anymore and can now properly recover without getting punished too hard. It makes sense that his other moves have gotten a little weaker but I think it just takes some getting used to. My battles with olimar have been pretty good so far.

 

[_Magus_]

idk, olimar and DDD are candidates for the worst IMO. He lost a lot of what made him great in brawl.

 

[-Jax]

idk, olimar and DDD are candidates for the worst IMO. He lost a lot of what made him great in brawl.

I don't feel Dedede is that bad, in fact the general consensus seems to be he's at least above mid tier. He's just a lot different from Brawl. I feel he's pretty good against anyone without a strong keepaway game, as that's a playstyle really countering him this game. Which is what keeps him from being high tier imo.

Certainly not the worst character in the game at least. By far.

 

[Myran]

idk, olimar and DDD are candidates for the worst IMO. He lost a lot of what made him great in brawl.

Just because he lost some of his Brawl greatness doesn't mean he's the worst in the game. I can assure you of that.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I actually feel like Olimar is better in some ways. He's still my best character, and I'm doing just as well with him as I did in Brawl. The lack of Pikmin at first appeared to be a massive nerf, but everything still works in practice. Though his up smash is no longer reliable, I'm getting more use out of his grab game than ever before, up throw to aerial juggling works as an amazing combo on most characters. Pikmin Toss is still an effective damage wracking/get away move, and you can pluck out new Pikmin as quickly as you lose them. I've already fallen into the habit of tossing all of my Pikmin onto the stage before using my recovery, it often makes the opponent dodge out of the way so you have room to land, and if any Pikmin hit them, you'll get some damage in to boot. Really the only major complaints I have are him being a bit sluggish and his grab range being worse, but he's still a good character.

 

[_Magus_]

I don't feel Dedede is that bad, in fact the general consensus seems to be he's at least above mid tier. He's just a lot different from Brawl. I feel he's pretty good against anyone without a strong keepaway game, as that's a playstyle really countering him this game. Which is what keeps him from being high tier imo.

Certainly not the worst character in the game at least. By far.

Here's why I think he's terrible:
-Bad projectile (can be swatted back at him by almost anything)
-Slower
-Still fat. Still a big target
-No fast aerials (unless you count nair, but the lack of range and the ending lag are not even worth it)
-Reduced grab range
-Almost no approach options

His bad projectile, bad attack speed, and bad air game make it hard for him to camp or play offensively. He has no safe playstyle IMO

 

[-Jax]

Here's why I think he's terrible:
-Bad projectile (can be swatted back at him by almost anything)
-Slower
-Still fat. Still a big target
-No fast aerials (unless you count nair, but the lack of range and the ending lag are not even worth it)
-Reduced grab range
-Almost no approach options

His bad projectile, bad attack speed, and bad air game make it hard for him to camp or play offensively. He has no safe playstyle IMO

All very valid points. His aerials aren't very good on-stage besides their usage for followups after dthrow. Though I feel nair is worth using it if you fastfall it, and it's my most common and reliable way of getting back on the stage if I'm above the stage. The hitbox itself is small, but that doesn't matter with Dedede's insane fastfalling speed.

Hitting the Gordo back is something that hurts us, a lot. Because of this, I never really use it as a conventional projectile anymore. I now commonly only use it to stop any approaches towards me, while I slowly work my way to my opponent. You can send it at a vertical bounce by holding up at the end of the side-b. Making it a very threatening and somewhat unpredictable wall.

Dedede is heavy enough to be able to eat a few projectiles, and I use this knowledge to slowly approach my opponent, never really commiting to anything laggy on the way the opponent might punish even if it'll cost me 10-15% just to get there, approaching in a greedier way will just cost you more. You need to be patient approaching with Dedede, as his dash attack is awfully slow and only really good on people that like to spotdodge on the edge or other weird stuff. Pretty much the only out of dash options he has are shield and grab, and the rest is just going to get you hit.

In general. you kind of want to keep your opponent around your f-tilt range with Dedede, and angling Gordo's upwards really helps doing this as you move towards them. I generally just keep slowly edging closer until my opponent has to approach me or eat an ftilt. An advantage of Dedede's fatness is he's so big it's kind of hard to get past him if you play it right. When they finally do approach or try to get past you, you have a lot of tools to punish them, possibly getting them off-stage and then continue to keep them there with angled Gordos, ftilts, grabs, and all your heavy hitting aerials.

His grab range is just 'normal' now, it really needed to be nerfed because it was just ridiculous in Brawl.

But because of all this, as I said before, he does very bad against characters with good keepaway games. I still don't feel he's bottom tier, as I've had a lot of success playing him roughly the way I described before. On top of this the game is generally being a bit more favorable to heavies than previous smash titles, with the further blast zones and rage mechanic. Give him a shot with this in mind and you'll find he's really not as bad as he might seem, he's just very different from his Brawl iteration.

Sorry if I'm making it seem I'm only here to protect Dedede. I used to play a lot of Olimar and I was wanting to give him another try in this game after everybody seems to say he's pretty bad. I'm really hoping there's some way to make him work.

I actually feel like Olimar is better in some ways. He's still my best character, and I'm doing just as well with him as I did in Brawl. The lack of Pikmin at first appeared to be a massive nerf, but everything still works in practice. Though his up smash is no longer reliable, I'm getting more use out of his grab game than ever before, up throw to aerial juggling works as an amazing combo on most characters. Pikmin Toss is still an effective damage wracking/get away move, and you can pluck out new Pikmin as quickly as you lose them. I've already fallen into the habit of tossing all of my Pikmin onto the stage before using my recovery, it often makes the opponent dodge out of the way so you have room to land, and if any Pikmin hit them, you'll get some damage in to boot. Really the only major complaints I have are him being a bit sluggish and his grab range being worse, but he's still a good character.

Does he still play the same as in Brawl? I tried playing him that way, but I'm really not able to keep people at range anymore with my Pikmin. Making me unable to really punish anything to do. I never was that great on the offensive with Olimar. Do you feel you need to be more aggressive with Olimar now? Or am I just doing something completely wrong... I haven't played him a lot yet, because there's so many fun characters in this game I'm having a hard time committing much time to any single ones besides Dedede and Palutena because I kind of just want to play them all.

 

[_Magus_]

Yeah. I have a few counterpoints, particularly about the ganon matchup, but maybe we should have a conversation over PM instead of polluting an Olimar thread

 

[Myran]

Does he still play the same as in Brawl? I tried playing him that way, but I'm really not able to keep people at range anymore with my Pikmin. Making me unable to really punish anything to do. I never was that great on the offensive with Olimar. Do you feel you need to be more aggressive with Olimar now? Or am I just doing something completely wrong... I haven't played him a lot yet, because there's so many fun characters in this game I'm having a hard time committing much time to any single ones besides Dedede and Palutena because I kind of just want to play them all.

If you get overly aggressive with Olimar you're gonna lose. You can camp in this game it's just a little different, because you have less Pikmin. Make them come to you then punish.

 

[_Magus_]

If you get overly aggressive with Olimar you're gonna lose. You can camp in this game it's just a little different, because you have less Pikmin. Make them come to you then punish.

The engine, with much more hitstun this time around, rewards combos and aggression more than camping. Also on that note, I don't know of any projectile now that doesn't have substantial ending lag, further crippling camping. And get olimar offstage in either game he's in, and it ain't gonna be pretty. His recovery, while it goes further distance, now leaves him wide open. Additionally, three pikmin is a huge nerf, and you can't get out of the set order, whereas in brawl there was none. No more six purples :\

 

[Myran]

The engine, with much more hitstun this time around, rewards combos and aggression more than camping. Also on that note, I don't know of any projectile now that doesn't have substantial ending lag, further crippling camping. And get olimar offstage in either game he's in, and it ain't gonna be pretty. His recovery, while it goes further distance, now leaves him wide open. Additionally, three pikmin is a huge nerf, and you can't get out of the set order, whereas in brawl there was none. No more six purples :\

Uhhh I don't think you've played Olimar a lot in smash 4. His Side-B has almost no lag, and it's incredibly hard to gimp him now. He's not even close to as bad as you make him sound.

 

[_Magus_]

Not gimp. But ganon's runoff fair, jumpoff bair, off ledge bair, uair, and offstage wizkick say hello Offstage beasts like the king of evil can have their way with him pretty easily.

 

[Myran]

Not gimp. But ganon's runoff fair, jumpoff bair, off ledge bair, uair, and offstage wizkick say hello Offstage beasts like the king of evil can have their way with him pretty easily.

Would you like to try?

 

[_Magus_]

I'm not the best by any means, but that could be fun

 

[Myran]

I'm not the best by any means, but that could be fun

I'd be happy to show you my Olimar.

 

[_Magus_]

Alrighty. I can prob be on later, around 8ish. Bring your a-game.

 

[Myran]

Alrighty. I can prob be on later, around 8ish. Bring your a-game.

Just send me a PM when you're good.

 

[Mettie7]

I really think Olimar's potential is hindered by the 3DS, just wait a few weeks for the Wii U version

 

[JamesDNaux]

Does he still play the same as in Brawl? I tried playing him that way, but I'm really not able to keep people at range anymore with my Pikmin. Making me unable to really punish anything to do. I never was that great on the offensive with Olimar. Do you feel you need to be more aggressive with Olimar now? Or am I just doing something completely wrong... I haven't played him a lot yet, because there's so many fun characters in this game I'm having a hard time committing much time to any single ones besides Dedede and Palutena because I kind of just want to play them all.

He certainly isn't Brawlimar, but I'm just quick to adapt to changes. Though I always played an aggressive Olimar, I've always used his grab game far more than any other character, and that still works for me here. My general strategy is to get in close and not give them any room to breath when on the offensive, and keep them away when on the defensive, Pikmin Toss is still very effective for both purposes, it's just less spammable than before. Aerials and tilts have pretty much replaced smash attacks for me, while my game in Brawl was to rack up damage and then go in for an up smash, my game now is to keep them off stage until they can't get back, now that Olimar has a good recovery. I can't really say anything for anyone else, or even explain how I'm still able to use Olimar. I just know that I was fighting a guy that beat me soundly when I used any of my other mains, I was unable to win. My last ditch attempt was to try Olimar, who I had thought to be nerfed terribly, only to find things to be turned around. Whereas I was losing every match in a row, I suddenly won every single match against the same guy. I guess I just channel the Pikmin.

 

[samoht45]

I personally don't think olimar is bad at all even for 3DS. He's incredibly underrated right now and his main advantage is mind games and being difficult to read on top of the combo potential, especially since so few people play as him at this time