Master Knight DH
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2008
- Messages
- 460
I'm honestly not sure where to put this. This is something to consider in the future, and an idea for the programmers for SSB4. I'm going to talk about an ideal setup.
The idea is for Pikmin maturity stages to actually do something other than being mere decoration. That's right: they would have more range/power/KB/priority/speed to work with.
What's that? It would encourage camping? Even if Pikmin still matured strictly through time--and ideally, they would mature through dealing damage instead--not if the camper got attacked repeatedly. Oh, but I forgot that a camper will inevitably counterattack. Or wait, no I didn't. And Olimar has no projectiles except the Pikmin Throw, which of course requires Purples to stun. He will need solid melee defense to hold up.
Which is where the compensating nerfing will come in. Olimar's moves that require Pikmin would, with Leaf Pikmin, have less.....well, everything, basically. The grab of doom wouldn't be, because until the Pikmin mature, its range would be average at best. Olimar would be below average with Leaf Pikmin. Anything that gets Pikmin killed would be bad because it will leave Olimar less able to escape this bad position, or get him back in it. And he will get attacked repeatedly, because his attack ability would be limited as is, highly limiting any fear of counterattack.
Obviously, Olimar would have to play well enough to get Flower Pikmin. But if he does, he'd be able to manage a hard to pierce defense. (But don't make it invincible, obviously.)
Here's what I suggest in terms of range/speed for each move, compared to regular Brawl Pikmin:
*Forward Smash - Flowers have slightly more range
*Up Smash - only Flowers (except Purples) get to reach somebody on a right above platform on Battlefield
*Down Smash - Bud range for each side equal, Whites would return quickly
*Grab - Flowers have slightly more range and slightly higher speed, and Whites would grab anybody in range at a lightning fast speed
*Side B - Buds throw speed and attack speed being slightly faster (still no stun except for Purples, though)
Reasons for (assuming added nerfing):
*A more rewarding character - when you have to work your way up against a human player to be playing as the closest thing to a demigod, even if not that itself, tell me it wouldn't be rewarding.
*His character - if you have played the Pikmin games, you'd see Olimar cares for the Pikmin. Just the (fake) ending of Pikmin 2 should tell you that much. Or how about the log entry in the original that he makes if you get Pikmin killed by a bomb rock. And I think it can be a measly one Pikmin. Contrast to all the players who abuse Pikmin Throw, which brings me to...
*Pikmin Throw - it's an annoying projectile. By no means is it overpowered, certainly not compared to the way Olimar himself was handled in general, but "hey, free damage" when that free damage comes from one of the little guys who gladly give their lives for you just because you have an infinite number of them just demeans them. It should be punished, I prefer horribly, if poorly used.
*"He's a shallow character" - I have heard this argument enough times and I can't say I really blame the people who make it, never mind on top of the fact that Olimar is supposed to be intelligent. But if he has to work with Pikmin maturity, his on-balance game will be variable and his gameplay shouldn't be as shallow, certainly not when he'll still have to work with his color Pikmin.
Possible reasons against:
*Camping - this is what I'm wanting to discourage, actually. If you want to be not pwned more than you like Olimar, either train as Olimar or don't pick him, simple as that. You won't get to work with his potential if you do the latter, but at least you won't get slapped silly.
*Tether recovery - I want the revamp partly because of the recovery being a tether recovery. But I won't mind if the recovery is patched up a bit. Of course, the problem that will still be around is making sure Oli's on-balance game isn't ridiculous. If it's variable enough, though, it shouldn't be anything overly broken.
*Too much coding (Brawl+ reason) - well, this is an idea anyway. At the very least this could be relayed to the makers in Japan. Still, I'd like to see this idea in action.
Okay. So now I await any comments. (Mainly because I'm not sure what else to add.)
The idea is for Pikmin maturity stages to actually do something other than being mere decoration. That's right: they would have more range/power/KB/priority/speed to work with.
What's that? It would encourage camping? Even if Pikmin still matured strictly through time--and ideally, they would mature through dealing damage instead--not if the camper got attacked repeatedly. Oh, but I forgot that a camper will inevitably counterattack. Or wait, no I didn't. And Olimar has no projectiles except the Pikmin Throw, which of course requires Purples to stun. He will need solid melee defense to hold up.
Which is where the compensating nerfing will come in. Olimar's moves that require Pikmin would, with Leaf Pikmin, have less.....well, everything, basically. The grab of doom wouldn't be, because until the Pikmin mature, its range would be average at best. Olimar would be below average with Leaf Pikmin. Anything that gets Pikmin killed would be bad because it will leave Olimar less able to escape this bad position, or get him back in it. And he will get attacked repeatedly, because his attack ability would be limited as is, highly limiting any fear of counterattack.
Obviously, Olimar would have to play well enough to get Flower Pikmin. But if he does, he'd be able to manage a hard to pierce defense. (But don't make it invincible, obviously.)
Here's what I suggest in terms of range/speed for each move, compared to regular Brawl Pikmin:
*Forward Smash - Flowers have slightly more range
*Up Smash - only Flowers (except Purples) get to reach somebody on a right above platform on Battlefield
*Down Smash - Bud range for each side equal, Whites would return quickly
*Grab - Flowers have slightly more range and slightly higher speed, and Whites would grab anybody in range at a lightning fast speed
*Side B - Buds throw speed and attack speed being slightly faster (still no stun except for Purples, though)
Reasons for (assuming added nerfing):
*A more rewarding character - when you have to work your way up against a human player to be playing as the closest thing to a demigod, even if not that itself, tell me it wouldn't be rewarding.
*His character - if you have played the Pikmin games, you'd see Olimar cares for the Pikmin. Just the (fake) ending of Pikmin 2 should tell you that much. Or how about the log entry in the original that he makes if you get Pikmin killed by a bomb rock. And I think it can be a measly one Pikmin. Contrast to all the players who abuse Pikmin Throw, which brings me to...
*Pikmin Throw - it's an annoying projectile. By no means is it overpowered, certainly not compared to the way Olimar himself was handled in general, but "hey, free damage" when that free damage comes from one of the little guys who gladly give their lives for you just because you have an infinite number of them just demeans them. It should be punished, I prefer horribly, if poorly used.
*"He's a shallow character" - I have heard this argument enough times and I can't say I really blame the people who make it, never mind on top of the fact that Olimar is supposed to be intelligent. But if he has to work with Pikmin maturity, his on-balance game will be variable and his gameplay shouldn't be as shallow, certainly not when he'll still have to work with his color Pikmin.
Possible reasons against:
*Camping - this is what I'm wanting to discourage, actually. If you want to be not pwned more than you like Olimar, either train as Olimar or don't pick him, simple as that. You won't get to work with his potential if you do the latter, but at least you won't get slapped silly.
*Tether recovery - I want the revamp partly because of the recovery being a tether recovery. But I won't mind if the recovery is patched up a bit. Of course, the problem that will still be around is making sure Oli's on-balance game isn't ridiculous. If it's variable enough, though, it shouldn't be anything overly broken.
*Too much coding (Brawl+ reason) - well, this is an idea anyway. At the very least this could be relayed to the makers in Japan. Still, I'd like to see this idea in action.
Okay. So now I await any comments. (Mainly because I'm not sure what else to add.)
