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Official Sora Speculation and Support Thread

Anihawk

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Joined
Aug 18, 2007
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23


Likelihood


It's pretty obvious that Sora doesn't have the best chance of making it to the Brawl roster. With that said, I'm surprised that a more organized effort hasn't been mounted to point out that his chances even if small, are obviously not unlikely. In fact, I'd say he has a good fighting chance of making it and is the most likely individual to do so out of the entire Square-Enix character portfolio.

Factual Evidence

1. His eligibility has already been established since he appeared in a great selling GBA game (and it did sell well despite what many say; 1.5 million globally according to wikipedia) as a main character. The most common argument I see poised against this fact is that the game was a spin off and is, at best, a tenuous link to Nintendo systems. That simply isn't true. Chain of Memories is canon to the main KH storyline so it's a very significant game. Besides, Snake is definitely never reappearing on a Nintendo system and with the PS3-exclusive MGS4 upcoming, I don't see why Nintendo would harbor any special feelings against Sora especially since KH will likely make more appearances on Nintendo systems.

2. Sora was also a character revealed by Sakurai in the fan poll he revealed. This is solid confirmation that, at the very least, Sora has been considered. Sakurai did say that 1 or 2 more third party characters would be in Brawl but he obviously wasn't certain and at the time of the interview, the character roster was not yet finalized.

3. Yoko Shimomura, KH music writer, is also one of the hired musicians for Brawl. While she is a now a freelance composer, her most notable and critically acclaimed works come from the KH series. Further, her only experience in music for fighting games is Street Fighter II which sports a very different style than Smash music. As a result, it appears unlikely that she was hired to compose original works for the game especially since Nintendo has already revealed the title screen music in the first update and Shimomura is not involved. It only makes sense that the composers of the title screen would also handle the other original songs in the game since they will share the same musical style as in the previous Smash games. Also, every music update thus far is being handled by the original composer. I don't think Street Fighter II characters will make it since Capcom has plenty of other icons that should be prioritized. That leaves the KH soundtrack as her remaining big piece of work. In light of this all, I think it's very likely that Shimomura is going to create remixes of KH tunes.

4. In an interview, Nomura said it would be "interesting" if Sora was in Smash. I'm still trying to find the source but I'm certain I read it last year. Many have said that Nomura, being a fan of the cutting edge and Sony, would not allow his creations to appear on the Wii. That's not true at all. His most recent game, Subarashiki Kono Sekai (It's a Wonderful World), appeared on the DS. In an interview, Nomura said several KH projects are under development and that the next portable KH game would be either on the DS, PSP, or mobile phone. With the current global sales situation and especially the one in Japan, I'd be willing to bet my hat that KH will have a healthy, if not exclusive presence on Nintendo systems in the future.

5. http://gamers-creed.com/?p=407#more-407

Not the most reliable source but they have been spot on before. The next KH3 game is now rumored to be Wii exclusive. It'd make perfect sense for Nintendo and Square to announce both this game and Sora for Brawl at TGS next month. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see and hope.

Circumstantial Evidence

1. KH is the only Square Enix series to have an original composer on the Brawl boat. Looking at the trends of the music updates, I think that puts Sora well ahead of every other Square character (except for, perhaps, Geno) in terms of a likely Brawl appearance.

2. Sora is popular and KH has global appeal. I don't think any other Square character or series fits the bill except for Final Fantasy but with Dissidia upcoming and no composer, I don't think any significant Final Fantasy character will make an appearance in Brawl. I don't expect Dragon Quest characters to make it either because of the composer reason as well as the fact that DQ's appeal doesn't exist outside of Japan. The regular argument made for DQ is that a character appearance would skyrocket Japanese Brawl sales but that isn't true. The best selling home console DQ spin off is Dragon Quest Swords and that hasn't breached 500,000 yet. If Nintendo has a choice, the obvious choice is Sora since that would be the smart business decision and draw in a healthy-sized newfound global fanbase.

3. With all signs pointing to a massive Brawl roster, I'd expect Sora to have an even better chance of finding a way into the line up. After Snake and the obvious ones, I'd expect Sora to be next in line making him the likeliest unlikely character. :chuckle:

4. The recent Subspace Emissary Army update looks very KH inspired. I suppose this is a very specious link but I still sense some hints here.

Why I Think Sora Should be in Brawl

1. It's time for Nintendo to restore relations with Square Enix. Any fan of Nintendo must appreciate its return to the throne of sales. The other part of it is to recapture third party support. With Square making the DS its newest cash cow, I think Nintendo should extend its own resources and begin to forge even deeper relationships with Square. I'd love to see Nintendo back on top in proper form. What better way to start than adding a popular character of Japan's largest third party into one of its own popular games?

2. In my opinion, Shimomura is one of the most talented yet unrecognized composers of our time and KHII had one of the best soundtracks of all time. With Brawl being traditionally, a creative breeding ground for awesome music remixes, it'd be worth it to have even Sora's turd in the game just to hear some of her remixes for KH songs.

3. Sora presents some interesting gameplay variation to the Brawl games. He's a key wielder with projectiles and magic and would be easy to balance. The combination is very conducive to good imagination. Adding Sora would be a great way to keep things fresh and resist the cloning temptation.

A Moveset WARNING: Minor Spoilers

I'll update this if someone would like to make something more hearty but I'd imagine that Sora would be like Pokemon Trainer and cycle through his KH2 forms like how Pokemon Trainer cycles through Pokemon and sport a similar stamina system. Him wielding a Keyblade makes for some easy B and A attacks and he has some nice abilities that would allow his jumping and recovery to be quite believable and fitting. I'd imagine his Final Smash to be his Final Form.

----------------------

So let us discuss this. It'd be neat to have a nice conversation on possibly be the biggest unexpected addition to the game.
 

Bassoonist

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Sora is the only third party character I really like and want in this game. Too bad he's not likely at all.
 

Circus

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This thread wins my life.

However, I disagree with the idea of Sora transforming. If Zelda still has Sheik attached to her hip (I hope she doesn't) then I think we've got a fair amount of transforming characters as it is, and Sora's transformations really don't so much in the way of changing up a moveset (aside from Wisdom form, I guess).

I see his B attacks being heavily magic based (only probably much more effective than they were in KH) and then his A attacks would be ideal for all his little keyblade tricks, as you suggested. I've never gotten around to creating a full-blown moveset for the guy due to laziness and his less than stellar chances of making it into Brawl in the first place. Oh well. Maybe one day. . . .

Also, Roxas screams "alt costume" here. Which would totally work for me.

[/fanboy rambling]

EDIT: It took me so long to find my words I didn't notice Onyx's post. I guess a lock is inevitable.
 

sick4paradise

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Last time I checked, Disney owned the rights to Sora and pretty much the entire KH franchise. If this is the case, it's highly unlikely we'll be seeing Sora in brawl. Disney isn't exactly renowned for honor in the business world. Just look what they did to Tim Burton.
 

Circus

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Last time I checked, Disney owned the rights to Sora and pretty much the entire KH franchise. If this is the case, it's highly unlikely we'll be seeing Sora in brawl. Disney isn't exactly renowned for honor in the business world.
My understanding was basically that Disney owned all the rights to Sora and the gang aside from video game control. Like, if a KH movie or cartoon were to be made, it'd be a Disney production, but Square would still have ownership over video game installments and appearances. I could have some faulty information here though.

Just look what they did to Tim Burton.
Yeah, what's the deal with that? I've heard something about TNBC not really being a Disney movie or something of the like.
 

Anihawk

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I've spent plenty of time trying to uncover the owners of the original KH characters but I haven't dug anything conclusive up. If they actually do own Sora, I guess you'd be right in that it would be a pretty big blow to his chances. I think Disney wouldn't be opposed to Nintendo wanting to use Sora though. They recently formed a new Nintendo-exclusive studio and they profit heavily from Nintendo consoles.
 

Anihawk

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This thread wins my life.

However, I disagree with the idea of Sora transforming. If Zelda still has Sheik attached to her hip (I hope she doesn't) then I think we've got a fair amount of transforming characters as it is, and Sora's transformations really don't so much in the way of changing up a moveset (aside from Wisdom form, I guess).

I see his B attacks being heavily magic based (only probably much more effective than they were in KH) and then his A attacks would be ideal for all his little keyblade tricks, as you suggested. I've never gotten around to creating a full-blown moveset for the guy due to laziness and his less than stellar chances of making it into Brawl in the first place. Oh well. Maybe one day. . . .

Also, Roxas screams "alt costume" here. Which would totally work for me.

[/fanboy rambling]
I've never been too good at writing movesets so I'll defer to the expert here. Your ideas do sound excellent but I'm afraid he'd turn into a Link clone only with different animations.

I do think transformations would still work if they are tweaked slightly though. Sakurai can change the forms to affect Sora's speed, strength, agility, and weight.
 

Circus

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I've never been too good at writing movesets so I'll defer to the expert here. Your ideas do sound excellent but I'm afraid he'd turn into a Link clone only with different animations.
Eh, I don't think he'd be a Link clone, but I would see a lot of his moves being similar to other characters.

Thunder—Pikachu rip-off
Fire—Samus' missile rip-off, I guess. I'd say Zelda's Din's Fire, but I wouldn't imagine it working the same way.
Blizzard—Ice Climber's rip-off
Reflect/Aero-Fox rip-off

And then Cure just wouldn't be used—A healing move like that seems pretty broken unless they turned it into something like Ness' Magnet. But then we have the clone-y problem again.

They only one that seem unmistakably original would be Gravity, I guess. But that's not saying much.

I do think transformations would still work if they are tweaked slightly though. Sakurai can change the forms to affect Sora's speed, strength, agility, and weight.
I suppose. Still, even id you don't include Final Form in the rotation, that's 4 forms (his original form is in there too). That seems like a little much. And I doubt all 4 of them will be useful. I mean, if you could be in Master Form, then why every been in normal form?

Still, the transformation idea would indeed have some potential. Personally, fighting in Wisdom form seems like a lot of fun (it always was in KH2).
 

Circus

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Sora is already practically in the game.. Didn't you guys know that?
Oh, shoot, I forgot. He was hiding behind that one barrel in that one screenshot in that one update that one time.

Totally slipped my mind.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I don't support Sora for 3 reasons...

1) Geno is by Square and Geno gets first above ALL Square characters...

2) His nobody (Forgot his name) is 10 x cooler than he is

3) He's been on 1 nintendo game...for the gameboy...and that game sucked...
 

Shuma

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@Andrew:

Yes you can dream, dream about characters that at least have a slim chance.
 

Aeramis

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Sora would be a wonderful addition for brawl and a good rep for SE. Final form for his final smash would make sense. I hope to do some keyblade swinging in brawl! ;)
 

smashdragon79

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i liked kingdom hearts and sora. and you know what. that mario game for the snes where geno is in it and he teams with bowser. i think its mario rpg: legend of the seven stars something like that. well that game was made by square enix and so is kingdom hearts. so actually there is a chance sora might be in it.
 

lyonartime333

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Wow

2 start off i LOVE KH. i love it more than SB. sorry. i have heard about this before, but wrote it off as "cool idea, no chance of it happening" my opinion has changed.
Anihawk, i want 2 congratulate u. you have done your homework. you should be on a debate team. the cycle threw the drive form thing is kind of dumb though..
either way, grea job!
GO SORA!!
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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I don't support Sora for 3 reasons...

1) Geno is by Square and Geno gets first above ALL Square characters...
As fact or opinion? Is Geno actually more likely than Sora for some reason? I mean, if Disney does own the rights needed for Sora to be included in Brawl, then I guess that could put more of a damper on things.



2) His nobody (Forgot his name) is 10 x cooler than he is
Roxas as alt costume, ftw.

3) He's been on 1 nintendo game...for the gameboy...and that game sucked...
And that one game does technically make him eligible. And that game wasn't as good as the others, but I think most people are too hard on it. I enjoyed it. Besides, even if you think it did suck, Sora's still an awesome character.
 

Vali

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As fact or opinion? Is Geno actually more likely than Sora for some reason? I mean, if Disney does own the rights needed for Sora to be included in Brawl, then I guess that could put more of a damper on things.
Well considering that Geno was made by SE for Nintendo, in a Mario game made by SE that was not only a huge success but has remained fondly remembered and popular and add in the fact that Nintendo has used him as a cameo in other games like M&L. Sora on the other hand is a character from a franchise on which started on playstation and apart from the 1 GBA game has remained that well, and I don't think the popularity of that game and SMRPG could even be compared. Geno does deserve the spot far more than Sora, and that is a fact.
 

Circus

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Well considering that Geno was made by SE for Nintendo, in a Mario game made by SE that was not only a huge success but has remained fondly remembered and popular and add in the fact that Nintendo has used him as a cameo in other games like M&L. Sora on the other hand is a character from a franchise on which started on playstation and apart from the 1 GBA game has remained that well, and I don't think the popularity of that game and SMRPG could even be compared. Geno does deserve the spot far more than Sora, and that is a fact.
Given that Geno's probably the closest thing to an actual Nintendo character out of any Square character, I guess that's true. It is Nintendo's game after all. Still, KH was extremely well received as far as I know. Maybe not by the Nintendo fanbase specifically, but in general. KH is still a popular title, to be sure.

And not that this counts for anything, but I'd never heard of Geno before coming here. Maybe I'm just not enough of a Mario fan to have known of him, but he seems overrated to me. I guess he ultimately would be entitled to a spot in Brawl first though.
 

LostAddict

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Just a little point, but you have written that he has a good chance because of Yoko Shimomura. She also wrote the music for Super Mario RPG, which could mean Geno. Which I think is the more likely case. But, I love Kingdom Hearts, so if Sora made it in, I'd be happy.
 

Vali

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Given that Geno's probably the closest thing to an actual Nintendo character out of any Square character, I guess that's true. It is Nintendo's game after all. Still, KH was extremely well received as far as I know. Maybe not by the Nintendo fanbase specifically, but in general. KH is still a popular title, to be sure.

And not that this counts for anything, but I'd never heard of Geno before coming here. Maybe I'm just not enough of a Mario fan to have known of him, but he seems overrated to me. I guess he ultimately would be entitled to a spot in Brawl first though.
He's probably the closest thing to a Mario character outside of an actual Nintendo character, period. He was made for a Mario game on a Nintendo console and has never been used outside of a Mario game since, not even in a cameo I don't believe, which I don't think any other character that isn't owned by Nintendo can brag. KH being extremely popular is irrelevant seeming that I'm certain it hardly made Nintendo any money (which I'm sure SMRPG did) since the popular games weren't on a Nintendo console and the fact that SMRPG was too extremely popular. It's still held by many as one of their favourite RPGs of all time, which considering the plentiful amount of awesome Square and Non-Square RPGs there are these days is a massive feat.

Personally I'd never heard of Geno too, but that was because I played the Megadrive (it's not the Genesis ****it!) and never owned SMRPG or a SNES for that matter. Had I owned one, I think I definitely would've owned SMRPG and be advocating Geno for Brawl.
 

Anihawk

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Just a little point, but you have written that he has a good chance because of Yoko Shimomura. She also wrote the music for Super Mario RPG, which could mean Geno. Which I think is the more likely case. But, I love Kingdom Hearts, so if Sora made it in, I'd be happy.
Yeah. I suppose Geno has a better chance of making it but KH is listed next to her name, not Super Mario RPG, and her most notable works were on KH so I believe that Sora's chances are raised significantly.

The reason I don't give much credit to Geno, as previous posters have mentioned is that he's not a well known character. Further, using a third party character is more of a business decision than anything. The overlap between Mario RPG fans and Brawl appears to be a bit more redundant whereas many KH fans would not even look at Brawl if Sora was not included. I'd also argue that Chain of Memories is a far more significant game than RPG is nowadays. RPG didn't sell that much more actually (300,000 more by my sources) and it's pretty much an antiquated relic of the past especially since it's been eclipsed by Paper Mario. I'm wondering if Nintendo would really waste third party licensing fees for nostalgia. Mario RPG shares the same problem with DQ. It's appeal is Japan limited, sold average in America, and was never released in Europe whereas KH was a hit everywhere. The money is simply better spent elsewhere.

I'm also not understanding why people are downplaying Chain of Memories' importance. It's a critical link between KH1 and KH2 and it sold over 1.5 million copies. It's not a minor affair.

But like I said at the beginning of the OP, Sora's chances aren't the best but I'd like to demonstrate that they aren't bad either.
 

Kirbinater

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I personally don't want Sora in the game, don't get me wrong, I think he's cool and all but seems people have gotten out of hand with what 3rd party chars they want.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Yeah. I suppose Geno has a better chance of making it but KH is listed next to her name, not Super Mario RPG, and her most notable works were on KH so I believe that Sora's chances are raised significantly.

The reason I don't give much credit to Geno, as previous posters have mentioned is that he's not a well known character. Further, using a third party character is more of a business decision than anything. The overlap between Mario RPG fans and Brawl appears to be a bit more redundant whereas many KH fans would not even look at Brawl if Sora was not included. I'd also argue that Chain of Memories is a far more significant game than RPG is nowadays. RPG didn't sell that much more actually (300,000 more by my sources) and it's pretty much an antiquated relic of the past especially since it's been eclipsed by Paper Mario. I'm wondering if Nintendo would really waste third party licensing fees for nostalgia. Mario RPG shares the same problem with DQ. It's appeal is Japan limited, sold average in America, and was never released in Europe whereas KH was a hit everywhere. The money is simply better spent elsewhere.

I'm also not understanding why people are downplaying Chain of Memories' importance. It's a critical link between KH1 and KH2 and it sold over 1.5 million copies. It's not a minor affair.

But like I said at the beginning of the OP, Sora's chances aren't the best but I'd like to demonstrate that they aren't bad either.

I downplay Chain of Memories because of the gameplay...I actually like the Kingdom Hearts Gameplay but Chain of Memories is not like it...I Only count 1 & 2 as the real games...
 

LaniusShrike

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Oh, Gypsy Lee... you and your crazy antics.

I rather enjoyed Kingdom Hearts, largely for similar reasons to Smash Bros.... corruption of innocent ideas! Just as it's great blasting Jigglypuff with missiles, it's great seeing Pinocchio being sad since someone's stolen his soul.

However, I can't say I cared that much about Sora. I did like Roxas more- though obviously Sora has a higher chance. I just always thought he looked like a clown, and clowns are scary.

I don't view him as being THAT clone-ish. His sword style is fairly different- less finesse and more jumping around swinging wildly. Lots of needless spinning would be involved. I haven't played any of the KH games except the first, so I can't really put together a solid moveset... but I think with some of his stronger abilities (Ars Arcanum, Ragnarök, Sonic Blade, Strike Raid) he could easily have a B moveset that avoids looking like other people's abilities. And then, FS would be something like Trinity Limit, maybe...
Though I kind of would want to avoid Donald and Goofy. I kind of hated them.

All that being said, however, I think Geno IS much more likely... even if he is retro and all that, Nintendo at least has some sort of licensing hold on him already, as he's appeared in other Nintendo games after RPG, in minor roles... meaning that dealing with licensing must not be difficult at all if they're willing to deal with the problems for cameo roles.
Also, well, putting Kingdom Hearts characters into Smash Bros. is a huge advertisement for enemy systems. Chances are, other KH games will form on the playstation before a nintendo system, and so saying "yay Sora" isn't a very smart move for Nintendo.
 

Anihawk

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http://gamers-creed.com/?p=407#more-407

Not the most reliable source but they have been spot on before. The next KH game is now rumored to be Wii exclusive. It'd make perfect sense for Nintendo and Square to announce both this game and Sora for Brawl at TGS next month. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see and hope.

As for KH in Brawl being advertising for a competitor's system, I see a similar problem with Snake since that'd be promotion for MGS4 but Nintendo doesn't seem to mind. If this rumor pans out at TGS, that'd be another obstacle out of the way for Sora's involvement in Brawl.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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One of thposers worked on Mario RPG....


Mario RPG is by Square...


GENO FOR BRAWL!!!
 

Bassoonist

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What Kingdom Hearts III Wii-exclusive?

You know, that'd be awesome... Even more awesome then Sora being in Brawl. There's no way I'm going to go buy a PS3 for the game, but I WILL buy a Wii for Brawl... So that'd work out perfectly!

Realistically, I just can't believe it, though. I seriously doubt they'd put it on the Wii...
 
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