Odd Jab Mechanics

[A2ZOMG]

Falcon's Jabs for example are very strange. His Jab3 has an odd property that allows it in some instances to be canceled back into Jab1 instead of Rapid Jabs.

[collapse="OSA2 data"]

Subaction Main0x4A
@11568

-----------|START|--------------------------
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=5.00x, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0xC0000, Damage=0x6, Trajectory=0x46, Base Knockback=0xA, Knockback Growth=0x32, Size=6.20x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=4.40x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30480, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x60001, Damage=0x6, Trajectory=0x46, Base Knockback=0xA, Knockback Growth=0x32, Size=3.50x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30480, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x60002, Damage=0x6, Trajectory=0x46, Base Knockback=0xA, Knockback Growth=0x32, Size=4.30x, Z Offset=4.40x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30480, 
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=7.00x, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0xC0000, Damage=0x5, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x0, Knockback Growth=0x46, Size=4.80x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=4.40x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30440, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x60001, Damage=0x5, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x0, Knockback Growth=0x46, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30440, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x60002, Damage=0x5, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x0, Knockback Growth=0x46, Size=3.80x, Z Offset=4.40x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39C30440, 
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=9.00x, 
Terminate Collisions
Bit Variable Set - RA-Bit[20], 
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=11.00x, 
Bit Variable Set - RA-Bit[16], 
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=32.00x, 
Allow Interrupt
----------------------------|END|-----------

[/collapse]I don't understand why. But here are the ways I input it. The timing for this mechanic didn't change whether my Jabs were stale or fresh keep in mind (hitlag is damage dependent but it doesn't seem to affect the timing at all here):

On whiff (no opponent nearby):
*Initiate Jab2
*After first active frame of Jab2 release A button for 13 frames (hit the Z button in debug pause 13 times once you see the first active frame of Jab2)
*Initiate Jab3
*After first active frame of Jab3 release A button for 5 frames
*Initiate next Jab. This Jab1 comes out 4 frames after the input

On hit:
*Initiate Jab2 and release A button for 18 frames after first active frame
*Hold A button again to initiate Jab3 which (when stale) links into Jab1 in 15 frames

OR

*Initiate Jab3 and release A button for 21 frames after the first active frame
*Initiate next Jab (comes out in 4 frames after input).


Discuss. And please don't infract me rPSI. =O

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Make this about jab structure in general >:U

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Get the OSA2 data up for his Jabs or I kill your family.

 

[Luxor]

On whiff (no opponent nearby):
*Initiate Jab2
*After first active frame of Jab2 release A button for 13 frames (hit the Z button in debug pause 13 times once you see the first active frame of Jab2)
*Initiate Jab3
*After first active frame of Jab3 release A button for 5 frames
*Initiate next Jab. This Jab1 comes out 4 frames after the input

00 Input Jab2
05 Jab2 active, start not holding A
09 RA-Bits 16, 22
18 Press A for Jab3
19 Jab2 nonflow IASA
23 Jab3 active
27 RA-Bit 20
28 Press A
29 RA-Bit 16
32 Jab1 active

Just the Jab3 part:
06 hit
10 RA-Bit 20
11 Press A
12 RA-Bit 16
15 Jab1


^OSA data mixed with your inputs as far as I can tell.
Now, looking for things that jump out at me, Falcon's Jab1 comes out frame 3, not frame 4. I know for a fact that you can input the "A" for the next jab anytime during the current one a la buffering, and I think that's what's going on here. You're hitting A frame 11 of Jab3, but that's 1 frame too early before the RA-Bit 16, so you have to wait an extra frame. Or something.

I'll look at this in frame advance since without it it's pretty impossible to figure out what you mean.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yes his Jab does come out in 3 frames, but for some reason whenever I do this technique, Falcon spends one frame in his Jab3 animation before starting up his Jab after I input the A button.

 

[Luxor]

Yeah, it's because the game accepts the input during the previous animation. For example, you don't need to wait until after thebit is set to input A for Falcon's Jab2; anytime after the Jab1 hit gets accepted by the game. Then you wait for the end of Jab1 until it flows ASAP to Jab2 a la buffering. Thanks for that info, pretty much confirms that this is RA-Bit 16 related, although according to Veril's list that's usually the next jab in sequence.