Nintendo's Continuous Error

[Mega Bidoof]

Before I start, let me say that this isn't a whining or complaining thread. This is merely me pointing out an error Nintendo makes that they never learn from. Thank you.

Throughout the years, especially the last 20 or so, Nintendo has made one continous error. If you look back on the past few consoles' history, you can clearly see a pattern that shows this error.

This error is arrogancy.

Let's go back to 1994. The Virtual Boy was just released. It was rushed to the market with very little launch titles and third party support, not to mention it had an unnecessarilly convoluted gimmick.

Naturally, it failed. Worst Nintendo system of all time.

They thought it was OK to rush it out because everyone knew them from the NES and SNES. They thought people would buy it just because it had "Nintendo" on the box.

Nintendo learned, and released the N64 a year or so later, with good launch titles and third party support. While it didn't do as well as the PS1, which had superior graphics (btw, not focusing on specs/visuals/power is Nintendo's other big flaw, but not the center of this thread), but it still did pretty well and was an overall success, and many cherish it as one of Nintendo's best to this day.

What do they do next?

They release the GameCube in 2001, with almost the same mistakes as the Virtual Boy. Little launch titles. Meh third party support.

Naturally, it didn't do that great.
It didn't do as bad as the VC, but it didn't do well.

Nintendo put a decent amount of effort into it, but not really as much as they should have. They thought people would buy it because it had "Nintendo" on the box. Albeit, they didn't completely blow it, because they knew they had some chance of failing, given that the N64 didn't dominate the market. This brings another pattern into play. They're arrogant decisions are proportionate to the success they got their arrogance from. Iwata promised it wouldn't happen again.

Let's go to 2006. Nintendo releases the Wii. It's marketing primarily to casuals and not hardcore gamers (note: that issue about the lack of stellar graphics comes up here again, as they're releasing this in an age where the competitors are in HD). The Wii did very well and became the best selling game system of all time. It's only flaw was the lack of target to hardcore gamers that were moving on to HD consoles with superior graphics.

Let's go to 2012. Nintendo releases the Wii U. It's like the Wii, except in HD, with a fancy new tablet gimmick, and more online stuff. It had horrible launch titles (the only Nintendo games were New Super Reshash Bros Go Again U, and Nintendo Land: Suprisingly Fun Tech Demo), and crappy 3rd Party Support (it costs extra money to make your games to utilize the whole GamePad thing). But most of all, it's marketing was absolute garbage. Hell, it barely even had marketing. The little marketing it had was still pushed towards casual players, but there was one problem....

We're now in an age where most casuals play games on their phones and tablets. If you only like to play games occasionally, having a phone (a necessary tool in this day and age) and being able to buy games for 99¢ a pop is a great opportunity.

These casuals won't go and buy a whole system dedicated to gaming for $300, and buy games at $50-$60 a pop. There simply is no need.

Yet Nintendo still had cringe-worthy commercials with little kids running around and doing things. Those commercials don't influence anyone's decision to buy a game. My 7 year-old sister says the Squid Kid commercial "makes her feel weird." That means, even to small chilren, it's cringe-worthy.
Remember when they had actually good commercials, like that original Smash 64 one with the mascots fighting. That's actually funny.

Not to mention, Nintendo made the name and tablet thing make the Wii U sound like an overpriced add-on to the Wii. In one commercial (note: this was a year or so after the Wii U came out, and Nintendo was well aware of the misconception) a kid asks his mom for a Wii U, to which the mom replies "But, honey, we already have a Wii." Instead of saying "But the Wii U is an entirely different gaming system," he says "But the Wii U is a total UPGRADE, Mother."

That sums up the Wii U's marketing.

Nintendo was arrogant from the Wii's success. They just made the best-selling video game system of all time. They figured they could release anything, and it would sell.

They were wrong.

The Wii U had the same mistakes as the VB and GameCube. It became the second worst selling Nintendo system of all time, only behind the VB.


It's not just with consoles.
They got lucky with the 3DS, because it had a couple decent launch titles. They just bumped up the graphics and added a 3 to the name. It shows how much launch titles matter.
It could have failed like the Wii U, since it was just their previous best-seller with added graphics, a new gimmick, and one character added to the name. They just got lucky with the launch titles.


Now, I have one last thing that fits into this whole arrogancy thing.

This year's E3.

E3 2014 was a huge success. Many said that Nintendo won E3. They had humor, and great content.

This made Nintendo arrogant.

E3 2015. It had the humor of E3 2014, but not the content. It seems as though Nintendo thought they could have the funny meme-y parts, but the actual hype content. While one could say they didn't have a lot of Wii U games because they're shifting development focus to NX, I doubt they really couldn't show off anything for Zelda U, or didn't have any new content for Splatoon they could show. I still believe they're working on Metroid U, as it's such a highly requested game, and the 30th Anniversary is next year, though I could understand if there really wasn't anything to show off. It might still be in early-ish stages.


Those are just my thoughts on the issue, and a lot is theorizing. Please share your thoughts and feelings below.

 

[Mechageo]

I remember reading a review on Amazon for a Wii U game where someone was furious that it wouldn't play in their Wii. I think you may be right about this, but perhaps arrogance isn't the right word. Maybe complacency?

 

[Darth Nightmaricus]

Nintendo built up hype with E3 this year, and then let people down.

People came in expecting:
-New Metroid that wasn't like Other M
-Mother 3 (as Mother 1 getting localized and Lucas DLC made it seem like they were hyping up for Mother 3)
-Animal Crossing Wii U (not amiibo festival)
-Paper Mario Wii U
They built up hype and then completely failed by showing off no new titles. The highlight was Triforce Heroes, AKA Four Swords Minus One Sword. They figured that since the NWC was a success, they had their Digital Event in the bag and didn't even try to put any effort into it. At all. They spent too much time on Super Mario Maker.

While I don't consider the GameCube a failure (though that is bias, GameCube was my first console), I do feel like the Wii U isn't doing very well. Sure, the Wii U has a lot of games that make me eager to get a Wii U, but those are mostly already out. Nintendo needs to pull something like Mother 3 or Super Mario 64 out of nowhere. They need a game that is groundbreaking, like with OoT, Mario 64, Majora's Mask, etc. I feel Nintendo's given up on the Wii U, as the NX is coming soon. They've basically abandoned their current home console.

And another issue with arrogancy: They never keep backwards compatibility.

Removing the GBA slot from the DSi (ruining a few games THAT NEEDED IT, like some of the Guitar Hero games) and replacing it with a low-quality camera was unnecessary. Keeping that mistake when moving to the 3DS was a terrible idea.

Removing the GameCube support from the Wii was pointless.

Nintendo just keeps marching forward, with no regard for convenience. They fail to listen to what their fans want. When the Mother fandom sent in 819 pages of 31,000 signatures saying "We want Mother 3 in English", Nintendo disregarded them. When they asked for a new F-Zero, Nintendo ignored them. Nintendo is losing the new console wars, and they're not even trying to win anymore.

Their arrogance is their undoing.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Nintendo built up hype with E3 this year, and then let people down.

People came in expecting:
-New Metroid that wasn't like Other M
-Mother 3 (as Mother 1 getting localized and Lucas DLC made it seem like they were hyping up for Mother 3)
-Animal Crossing Wii U (not amiibo festival)
-Paper Mario Wii U
They built up hype and then completely failed by showing off no new titles. The highlight was Triforce Heroes, AKA Four Swords Minus One Sword. They figured that since the NWC was a success, they had their Digital Event in the bag and didn't even try to put any effort into it. At all. They spent too much time on Super Mario Maker.

While I don't consider the GameCube a failure (though that is bias, GameCube was my first console), I do feel like the Wii U isn't doing very well. Sure, the Wii U has a lot of games that make me eager to get a Wii U, but those are mostly already out. Nintendo needs to pull something like Mother 3 or Super Mario 64 out of nowhere. They need a game that is groundbreaking, like with OoT, Mario 64, Majora's Mask, etc. I feel Nintendo's given up on the Wii U, as the NX is coming soon. They've basically abandoned their current home console.

And another issue with arrogancy: They never keep backwards compatibility.

Removing the GBA slot from the DSi (ruining a few games THAT NEEDED IT, like some of the Guitar Hero games) and replacing it with a low-quality camera was unnecessary. Keeping that mistake when moving to the 3DS was a terrible idea.

Removing the GameCube support from the Wii was pointless.

Nintendo just keeps marching forward, with no regard for convenience. They fail to listen to what their fans want. When the Mother fandom sent in 819 pages of 31,000 signatures saying "We want Mother 3 in English", Nintendo disregarded them. When they asked for a new F-Zero, Nintendo ignored them. Nintendo is losing the new console wars, and they're not even trying to win anymore.

Their arrogance is their undoing.

Nintendo seems too obsessed with their own beliefs, and continue doing whatever they want. Reggie came out and said the reason E3 has mostly 2015 titles was because they don't want to make "long term propositions" for big projects, despite those being the to hung a that generate hype, and everyone other company (even Nintendo a year ago) does them.
They think having fun little gimmicks out-prioritizes having more system power.

While having their own philosophy is what makes Nintendo different and unique, they need to step into the 21st Century and do what they have to do to survive and be successful, and not what they personally want to do.
AKA They need to make sacrifices to be a big thing again.

Them making mobile games gives me some hope that they're drifting away from that, but this E3 certainly doesn't.
One minute Nintendo shows signs that they're fixing their problems, the next minute they show signs that they just don't learn.

Personally, I blame Nintendo of Japan. They don't understand the west. They are old Japanese men (I'm mainly referring to Iwata, Miyamoto is cool, he just makes games). I'm sure Nintendo of America has tried to explain to them how big online gaming is here, what most older gamers are like here, or how YouTube works, but they won't listen. They don't understand.

I think that's the source of most of the issues.

 

[ErenJager]

The odd thing is I feel like Nintendo has such a clear outline on how to launch successful games, which in turn would drive console sales. I feel like they're out of touch with what exactly makes a game fun. Although Smash 4 is great, they missed the mark slightly with the game modes and limited online. Plus the 3DS holding it back (ice Climbers) should never let the hand held hold back the console.

If they wanted Wii U to be successful just listen to popular fan requests, I feel like for the most part they shoot down fan ideas, because they have a strong belief that they know better than the fans. Ultimately though the fans drive sales and reputation which effects bottom line and stock.

I feel like if you launch a Nintendo System it's mandatory that it launch with one of the three major titles and a secondary title as well with good enough hardware for easy portability for third party developers. Unless Nintendo wants to detach it's self from third party support... with only select third party titles for the system.

For example If I launched Wii U, I wouldn't have named it Wii U. It's confusing for retailers and costumers.

I would have had Smash Bros, Mario Kart, or a Legend of Zelda title at launch. Or even a ground breaking main series Pokemon Game not on a hand held.

With that I would have had a some secondary fun titles like a Mario Sports spin off such as tennis, golf, etc. Or A new Super mario Bros.

Within months I would have other major titles such as an Animal Crossing, Metroid, Star Fox scheduled or teased for the next year.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem with the Wii U isn't that it's not hardcore enough, it's that it's not casual enough. I'm not saying Nintendo needs more Wii Sports games. No, there's various levels of "casual" and "hardcore." And right now gaming's core audience is at this point where people are at least somewhat aware of new game announcements and follow "hype" games. Nintendo really can't do anything about it, though. The damage done by the N64 is irreversible, and Nintendo fans are either not interested in third parties at large or are content with buying two systems.

So the reality is that Nintendo ought to make a cheap system, cheaper then the Wii U was, to act as a companion to the Xbox, PS, and PC. Don't compete directly, it's failed three times now and will never, ever work. Look at the Wii. Even past the casual audience the Wii found success by being a companion system to the other three. Do you really think all those games like Metroid Prime 3 and Punch-Out found their success from the casuals the Wii attracted?

TL,DR: Competing will always be doomed to fail, make a system solely for Nintendo games.

 

[Wintermelon43]

But, almost everyone above like 10 play Xbox and Playstations, sadly. In my grade, only two other people like Nintendo. They're not making it for casuals; they're making it for young kids. They think older kids and anyone above won't be interested. Which is sadly almost true. Almost everyone does. But they're forgetting that A LOT of people still like them, A HUGE amount. They just assume that next to everybody will give up to them

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The problem with the Wii U isn't that it's not hardcore enough, it's that it's not casual enough. I'm not saying Nintendo needs more Wii Sports games. No, there's various levels of "casual" and "hardcore." And right now gaming's core audience is at this point where people are at least somewhat aware of new game announcements and follow "hype" games. Nintendo really can't do anything about it, though. The damage done by the N64 is irreversible, and Nintendo fans are either not interested in third parties at large or are content with buying two systems.

So the reality is that Nintendo ought to make a cheap system, cheaper then the Wii U was, to act as a companion to the Xbox, PS, and PC. Don't compete directly, it's failed three times now and will never, ever work. Look at the Wii. Even past the casual audience the Wii found success by being a companion system to the other three. Do you really think all those games like Metroid Prime 3 and Punch-Out found their success from the casuals the Wii attracted?

TL,DR: Competing will always be doomed to fail, make a system solely for Nintendo games.

Competing won't always be doomed to fail, they've done it up until the Wii. The SNES competed with the Genesis. The N64 competed with the Playstation (but lost in the wrong run). The GameCube even competed with the XBox and PS2.

The Wii was when they started marketing primarily to casuals. The Wii was the system that became a "companion" to the XBox/PS3. That's not a coincidence.

TL;DR - Nintendo has always competed. The companion thing started with the Wii, which was also the system that started the casuals thing. Eliminating casual marketing = Hardcore Marketing = Actually competition.

But, almost everyone above like 10 play Xbox and Playstations, sadly. In my grade, only two other people like Nintendo. They're not making it for casuals; they're making it for young kids. They think older kids and anyone above won't be interested. Which is sadly almost true. Almost everyone does. But they're forgetting that A LOT of people still like them, A HUGE amount. They just assume that next to everybody will give up to them

Nah, man. You got it backwards.

Most kids above 10 not playing Nintendo isn't the reason Nintendo is advertising for young kids.
Rather, Nintendo advertising to young kids is the reason most kids above 10 don't play Nintendo.

Nintendo thinks they can advertise to casuals and younger kids exclusively, and assume all the hardcore gamers will buy it. While it seems like there is no easy way to do this, and that they must pick one audience and advertise to them, it's actually really simple. Advertise to the older ones. Then the older ones will buy it and play it. Then the younger ones will see the older ones playing it, and think it's cool.

If Nintendo marketed to kids above 10, they would buy it, but all they see are the super cheesy commercials with the guys with the stupid voices who make Majora's Mask sound like a lighthearted game. When they see Majora's Mask, they see a stupid Zelda game for nerds, and not the dark story and atmosphere with intricate gameplay and puzzles. When they see Mario Kart and Smash Bros, they see the stupid Mario games for the kids, and not beautifully designed tracks in MK8, and complex techniques needed to master characters in Smash. When they see Splatoon, they see Squid Kid, and not the unique gameplay, customization, or the fact that it TAKES PLACE AFTER THE EXTINCTION OF HUMANITY!

TL;DR - Nintendo's Marketing Game = 3/8 M8

 

[LancerStaff]

Competing won't always be doomed to fail, they've done it up until the Wii. The SNES competed with the Genesis. The N64 competed with the Playstation (but lost in the wrong run). The GameCube even competed with the XBox and PS2.

The Wii was when they started marketing primarily to casuals. The Wii was the system that became a "companion" to the XBox/PS3. That's not a coincidence.

TL;DR - Nintendo has always competed. The companion thing started with the Wii, which was also the system that started the casuals thing. Eliminating casual marketing = Hardcore Marketing = Actually competition.

I was saying to embrace being a companion system...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I was saying to embrace being a companion system...

I know. And I'm saying they've been a main competitor before, so they shouldn't lower themselves to this companion level. It worked out well with the Wii, but not so much with the Wii U.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So apparently Nintendo talked to 3rd Party Developers at E3 about the NX and were met with "positive responses".

This is good. This is VERY good. They're making sure they'll have good Third Party Support before the even publically announce the system.
This kinda confirms they are really working on making sure the NX's launch will be a big one, which many have been speculating as there haven't been any big new Wii U games announced at E3 (we already knew about Star Fox), which could mean they are slowing down on Wii U games and are starting NX Games. As that one guy said at E3, if a big game (he said Metroid) started development now, it would probably be on NX.

This could also point towards the NX having similar specs to the next-gen consoles like PS4 and XBO, which 3rd Party Developers would need to port over their games, which is a good sign.


I just really hope they don't rush the release date. I think it should release in 2018 to be honest, but I see 2017 as more likely. I just hope and pray they don't release it in 2016, which I doubt they will, but there is always that room for doubt.

 

[Deleted member]

So apparently Nintendo talked to 3rd Party Developers at E3 about the NX and were met with "positive responses".

This is good. This is VERY good. They're making sure they'll have good Third Party Support before the even publically announce the system.
This kinda confirms they are really working on making sure the NX's launch will be a big one, which many have been speculating as there haven't been any big new Wii U games announced at E3 (we already knew about Star Fox), which could mean they are slowing down on Wii U games and are starting NX Games. As that one guy said at E3, if a big game (he said Metroid) started development now, it would probably be on NX.

This could also point towards the NX having similar specs to the next-gen consoles like PS4 and XBO, which 3rd Party Developers would need to port over their games, which is a good sign.


I just really hope they don't rush the release date. I think it should release in 2018 to be honest, but I see 2017 as more likely. I just hope and pray they don't release it in 2016, which I doubt they will, but there is always that room for doubt.

As long as they don't rush it to market Dreamcast-style, and take their time developing it, I'm good. I don't want it to come out next year (then again, it's very doubtful this will be the case). That would literally cause an uproar within the Wii U side of things, if you know what I'm talking about. If the new system does have similar specifications as the other two, then great-- Nintendo console owners always want more games to play.

 

[Soul.]

The fact that people think NX is going to be a successor to Wii U makes me wonder if their previous statements are true or not; "NX will not replace both Wii U and 3DS" specficially.

This is what makes me cringe a bit. We have no idea what it is yet, so to make such a claim is not worth doing at least right now. If the thing is a home console... where is the handheld? Like, even if the 3DS is doing well so far, they should be probably working on it alongside NX (provided it is a home console). 2016 is not that far away; we just have to play the waiting game.

Consoles will always have a rough start. There is no denying on this one. I don't think they will drop the Wii U just because it's not selling well as it should. A week ago, they said they would keep on making 3DS/Wii U software while developing NX; this means they are not done with it yet. It still has potential. They also said they want to prioritize customers who purchased Wii U units.

The NX is new hardware, and will start from 0. However, the 3DS and Wii U have install bases. Immediately cutting off SW for previous HW upon the release of a new machine is inefficient. We will continue making 3DS/Wii U SW while preparing for the NX. We are prioritizing satisfying customers who purchased the Wii U.

Of course, things might not look bright. We can bring up the DS replacing the GBA scenario after them saying it would be a "third pillar;" most people expect this to happen with WIi U and NX. It would be really said if this happened.

Also, gimmicks sell consoles. If NX has a great gimmick, expect it to sell well. The question is.... how "great" would it be to justify its place?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The fact that people think NX is going to be a successor to Wii U makes me wonder if their previous statements are true or not; "NX will not replace both Wii U and 3DS" specficially.

This is what makes me cringe a bit. We have no idea what it is yet, so to make such a claim is not worth doing at least right now. If the thing is a home console... where is the handheld? Like, even if the 3DS is doing well so far, they should be probably working on it alongside NX (provided it is a home console). 2016 is not that far away; we just have to play the waiting game.

Consoles will always have a rough start. There is no denying on this one. I don't think they will drop the Wii U just because it's not selling well as it should. A week ago, they said they would keep on making 3DS/Wii U software while developing NX; this means they are not done with it yet. It still has potential. They also said they want to prioritize customers who purchased Wii U units.



Of course, things might not look bright. We can bring up the DS replacing the GBA scenario after them saying it would be a "third pillar;" most people expect this to happen with WIi U and NX. It would be really said if this happened.

Also, gimmicks sell consoles. If NX has a great gimmick, expect it to sell well. The question is.... how "great" would it be to justify its place?

There's only the slightest doubt in my mind that the NX will replace the Wii U.

I think it's just like the DS, where it will be really new and radically different, but it will still be their next game system that will replace the previous one.