Nintendo Aquires Monolith Soft. - What it could mean for SSBB...

[Lord_Deathborne]

As you may well know, Monolith Soft is the team currently behind the development of Disaster: Day of Crisis. What you may have not known is that it's the same team that brought you Xenosaga and Baiten Kaitos. Could this mean that formerly long shot third party Brawl character ideas once scoffed at (such as Kalas and KOS-MOS) are now serious first party contenders? Granted, the game is likely in it's final stages and is now probably too late to make any further additions than who is already included in the roster, but who knows? Irregardless, this is a very interesting development...

Get the full scoop here: http://gonintendo.com/?p=16952

 

[Tank McCannon]

Were any of those games on Nintendo platforms?

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Were any of those games on Nintendo platforms?

Um... Both Baiten Kaitos were GameCube exclusives, and Xenosaga Episode I+II was released for the DS...

 

[D1]

good sh** ^^^

pwned

 

[Tank McCannon]

Um... Both Baiten Kaidos were GameCube exclusives, and Xenosaga Episode I+II was released for the DS...

Just asking, I really had no idea. Ummm, I suppose it's possible, but I still would say probably not, but who knows.

 

[TranquilStarfall]

Lord Deathborne..it's Baten Kaitos ...not Kaidos LOL. Anyway this shows some promise...Kalas would pwn in Smash ^_~

 

[Zane Fleia]

It is probably a bit late for something this recent, but who knows? I'm all for KOS-MOS. Nice find. ^_^

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

@Tank McCannon: If it's going to be anyone, it'll probably be main protagonist from Disaster... I think NAMCO is probably going to hold on to Xenosaga, but I though I'd through it out there anyway since it is possibly remaining with Monolith...

@TranquilStarfall: Sorry, my bad... I went back and fixed it up...

 

[Rakuen]

They wouldn't have started development on any Monolith characters right NOW. Nintendo would likely have been in negotiations for a few months, so if there would be any additional characters, they'd have started development then.

 

[El HP]

Ray seems the most probable addition to the roster since he is first party the game Disaster: Day of Crisis is developed by monolith and published by nintendo.

 

[GenG]

None has been said about the IPs. But I would find funny to Namco not lending the Baten Kaitos franchise to Nintendo, since it's a Nintendo exclusive and both titles sold VERY BAD.

 

[JesterBox]

I tried Xenosaga I didn't play it, I watched it...you play for five seconds then watch 4 years of boring cinemas, I'm all for story in an RPG but man... theres a limit

KOS-MOS Super Smash
"she jump in the air....


then stays there..


.forever"

I never played Katos but the charecters look cool enough to me

 

[GraniteJJ]

If it's going to be anyone, it'll probably be main protagonist from Disaster... I think NAMCO is probably going to hold on to Xenosaga, but I though I'd through it out there anyway since it is possibly remaining with Monolith...

Namco cannot "hold on" to Xenosaga. Nintendo now owns 80% of the controlling shares of Monolith Soft, while Namco only owns 16% (they used to have 96%, but the difference now belongs to Nintendo).

As a result of this acquisition, Nintendo know claims ownership to the various IPs owned by Monolith Soft, and the company itself has become a second-party developer for Nintendo. So, any properties that Namco owned (Baten Kaitos, Xenosaga, and Disaster) are not exclusively owned by Nintendo, regardless of previous releases.

It is similar to how Capcom owns characters like Geno and Mallow from Super Mario RPG on the SNES, while Nintendo owns the remainder. If Namco itself had actually had ownership of Baten Kaitos or Xenosaga, it would be a different story. But Namco was merely the publisher, not the developer.

And, while people may be excited that KOS-MOS and Kalas have the potential to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, I would not count on it. The agreement was made towards the end of April, and if reports of the game being in a playable state, as well as a late 2007 release date are true, then there would be no conceivable way that new characters could be added. And since Nintendo did not know for a fact that it would be able to acquire Monolith (purchasing shares on this scale is a long process that does not always end well), it seems unlikely that they would have developed for characters they did not yet own.

So...sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but no KOS-MOS and Kalas in SSBB.

 

[Chidosengan]

Namco cannot "hold on" to Xenosaga. Nintendo now owns 80% of the controlling shares of Monolith Soft, while Namco only owns 16% (they used to have 96%, but the difference now belongs to Nintendo).

As a result of this acquisition, Nintendo know claims ownership to the various IPs owned by Monolith Soft, and the company itself has become a second-party developer for Nintendo. So, any properties that Namco owned (Baten Kaitos, Xenosaga, and Disaster) are not exclusively owned by Nintendo, regardless of previous releases.

It is similar to how Capcom owns characters like Geno and Mallow from Super Mario RPG on the SNES, while Nintendo owns the remainder. If Namco itself had actually had ownership of Baten Kaitos or Xenosaga, it would be a different story. But Namco was merely the publisher, not the developer.

And, while people may be excited that KOS-MOS and Kalas have the potential to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, I would not count on it. The agreement was made towards the end of April, and if reports of the game being in a playable state, as well as a late 2007 release date are true, then there would be no conceivable way that new characters could be added. And since Nintendo did not know for a fact that it would be able to acquire Monolith (purchasing shares on this scale is a long process that does not always end well), it seems unlikely that they would have developed for characters they did not yet own.

So...sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but no KOS-MOS and Kalas in SSBB.

Hey, Roy made it in the last second didn't he?

Kalas = Pit clone
KOS-MOS = Samus-or-Zero-Suit Samus clone

could still happen. but if not, maybe next time.

 

[Zane Fleia]

I hope not. It's not worth having them in if they're only clones. >.>

 

[GraniteJJ]

Hey, Roy made it in the last second didn't he?

Kalas = Pit clone
KOS-MOS = Samus-or-Zero-Suit Samus clone

could still happen. but if not, maybe next time.

That is actually quite different. Roy made it in because he is a Nintendo character. Nintendo KNEW they were making him for a game at around the same time Super Smash Bros. Melee was being developed, and so they included him along with Marth to increase awareness of the Fire Emblem franchise in North America.

Kalas and KOS-MOS are only recent acquisitions, and Nintendo owning them was never a "sure thing". In order for Nintendo to have added them "last minute", this acquisition would have had to have been finalised almost a year ago.

 

[Chidosengan]

That is actually quite different. Roy made it in because he is a Nintendo character. Nintendo KNEW they were making him for a game at around the same time Super Smash Bros. Melee was being developed, and so they included him along with Marth to increase awareness of the Fire Emblem franchise in North America.

Kalas and KOS-MOS are only recent acquisitions, and Nintendo owning them was never a "sure thing". In order for Nintendo to have added them "last minute", this acquisition would have had to have been finalised almost a year ago.

well, you may be right there....

still though, isn't just awsome that KOS-MOS and Kalas are Nintendo characters now?

 

[Kazuya]

wow, good move Nintendo. May they will be additions/downloadable characters for the future?

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Namco cannot "hold on" to Xenosaga. Nintendo now owns 80% of the controlling shares of Monolith Soft, while Namco only owns 16% (they used to have 96%, but the difference now belongs to Nintendo).

As a result of this acquisition, Nintendo know claims ownership to the various IPs owned by Monolith Soft, and the company itself has become a second-party developer for Nintendo. So, any properties that Namco owned (Baten Kaitos, Xenosaga, and Disaster) are not exclusively owned by Nintendo, regardless of previous releases.

It is similar to how Capcom owns characters like Geno and Mallow from Super Mario RPG on the SNES, while Nintendo owns the remainder. If Namco itself had actually had ownership of Baten Kaitos or Xenosaga, it would be a different story. But Namco was merely the publisher, not the developer.

And, while people may be excited that KOS-MOS and Kalas have the potential to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, I would not count on it. The agreement was made towards the end of April, and if reports of the game being in a playable state, as well as a late 2007 release date are true, then there would be no conceivable way that new characters could be added. And since Nintendo did not know for a fact that it would be able to acquire Monolith (purchasing shares on this scale is a long process that does not always end well), it seems unlikely that they would have developed for characters they did not yet own.

So...sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but no KOS-MOS and Kalas in SSBB.

I dunno... Xenosaga is an awfully big asset for NAMCO to just let slip through their fingers - there is a likelihood, albeit a small one, that they may have purchased the rights to retain the franchise, even if they're merely just the publishers.

At any rate, I did admit that they are most likely NOT getting in SSBB, but they now have much higher credentials. They may still be able to work in a late addition, but then again there's always SSB4...

wow, good move Nintendo. May they will be additions/downloadable characters for the future?

My point exactly...

 

[tirkaro]

it would be kickarse if kos-mos and kalas made it in. well, I dont care to much for Xenosaga, but Baten kaitos had to be the most awesome, underrated game ever. and since Kalas and friends are now nintendo characters, that makes it all the more awesome.

Now, we dont EXACTLY know what stage brawl is at. If it's at its final FINAL stage, then the monolith gang is less than likely to get in. but, if they are still working on it, the monolith crew has a chance. at the very least, as clones. hopefully they'll at least get in if sakurai is smart and includes downloadable characters.

 

[Wiseguy]

Baten Kaitos rocks all kinds of awesome, so this news is definitely positive for fans of this incredible series (all twelve of us). Personally, I think BK would be perfect on the DS.

As for Kalas in Brawl, I can't see it happening (although he did appear on Sakurai's poll, surprisingly). Brawl already has a metric butload of sword fightering characters, flying characters and flying sword fightering characters - not to mention all the sword fighters with blue hair from the Fire Emblem series. Sadly, as much as I would love to see him appear, he just doesn't bring anything new to the table.

 

[Sensai]

Oh wow. I hadn't even thought about this in relation to Brawl.

I know the news came in last night, but it never occurred to me that it could actually affect Brawl. Hm...

Thanks for the incentive to think. We all need it.

 

[Tiamat]

Namco could possibly still own Xenosaga, depending on things. When Rare left Nintendo, Rare almost took Diddy Kong with them while Nintendo wished to retain everything including Joanna Dark etc etc (there was lots of court wrangling and in the end, it was decided that Nintendo would keep all the Kongs and Star Fox-related chars etc while Rare kept all its originals and mostly-originals like Conker).

At least, if I recalll the magazine articles at the time correctly.

 

[HiddenTiger]

It's not gonna matter. Brawl is already so far into development that there is no way that they haven't already picked out the enitre roster by now. If any of these guys were to be considered, it would have been long ago and as 3rd parties. It's way too late for this to make any difference on the outcome of Brawl's roster.

 

[GraniteJJ]

It's not gonna matter. Brawl is already so far into development that there is no way that they haven't already picked out the enitre roster by now. If any of these guys were to be considered, it would have been long ago and as 3rd parties. It's way too late for this to make any difference on the outcome of Brawl's roster.

Exactly. That is what I was trying to point out. People seem to think that Brawl is still heavily in development. Unless they take it back to the drawing board, I cannot see them adding in more characters. Kojima and Sakurai have played it together, which means it must be pretty close to the end of it all.

 

[Rakuen]

I dunno... Xenosaga is an awfully big asset for NAMCO to just let slip through their fingers - there is a likelihood, albeit a small one, that they may have purchased the rights to retain the franchise, even if they're merely just the publishers.

You realize that NAMCO pulled the plug on the Xenosaga project due to poor software sales, right?
There's no real reason for them to purchase rights to retain the franchise.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Hey, Roy made it in the last second didn't he?

Kalas = Pit clone
KOS-MOS = Samus-or-Zero-Suit Samus clone

could still happen. but if not, maybe next time.

If they were clones that would take all the fun out of it.

 

[Chidosengan]

You realize that NAMCO pulled the plug on the Xenosaga project due to poor software sales, right?
There's no real reason for them to purchase rights to retain the franchise.

They did? Link plz?

I cannot see them adding in more characters. Kojima and Sakurai have played it together, which means it must be pretty close to the end of it all.

That's true, this also means Brawl could come out very soon! Exciting anyways!

 

[GraniteJJ]

They did? Link plz?



That's true, this also means Brawl could come out very soon! Exciting anyways!

I'm surprised you didn't know Namco pulled support for Xenosaga. It was originally supposed to be a seven-episode saga across multiple platforms, but sluggish sales forced them to wrap up the storyline in the recently released Xenosaga III.

 

[Rakuen]

They did? Link plz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenosaga#Series_controversy

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I'm tired of people pointing out what I already made note of... All I said is that they now had first-party character credentials now, which simply means their not as far-fetched ideas as the once were... And even though Kojima said that the game "feels very complete," it is by no means an indicator that the game is in fact complete... Keep in mind that it's Sakurai, not Kojima, that is helming the project, so until Sakurai himself makes a statement regarding the game's progress I'm keeping my fingers crossed... Also, it's most likely slated for a late Summer - Fall 2007 release, giving them anywhere from 3 - 6 months for additional development, which is plenty of time to throw in some last minute additions if they felt so inclined. I'm not saying it will happen - in fact, there is very little chance of that happening - but I wouldn't rule it out either... Also, NAMCO and Nintendo were likely in discussions over the sale of Monolith Soft for some time already, so news of the acquisition was probably known to people on the inside (such as Sakurai and Co.) for quite a while now... another thing that ought to be considered. At the very least, lighten up people...

 

[GraniteJJ]

I'm tired of people pointing out what I already made note of... All I said is that they now had first-party character credentials now, which simply means their not as far-fetched ideas as the once were... And even though Kojima said that the game "feels very complete," it is by no means an indicator that the game is in fact complete... Keep in mind that it's Sakurai, not Kojima, that is helming the project, so until Sakurai himself makes a statement regarding the game's progress I'm keeping my fingers crossed... Also, it's most likely slated for a late Summer - Fall 2007 release, giving them anywhere from 3 - 6 months for additional development, which is plenty of time to throw in some last minute additions if they felt so inclined. I'm not saying it will happen - in fact, there is very little chance of that happening - but I wouldn't rule it out either... Also, NAMCO and Nintendo were likely in discussions over the sale of Monolith Soft for some time already, so news of the acquisition was probably known to people on the inside (such as Sakurai and Co.) for quite a while now... another thing that ought to be considered. At the very least, lighten up people...

I think you over-estimate the power of the industry. A fall release does not give them three to six months to be completed. They should probably be done within a month, if that is a release window they are shooting for. Keep in mind that once the software is completed, you still have to manufacture the discs and cases, and ensure that all orders and shipments have been properly alloted to retailers. You cannot just finish a game and have it ship the next day.

And as for adding a new character, they would have to start from scratch on the body of the characters, and code new moves to button presses, design hit zones for the characters, overlay the initial body constructs with the actual skins, and then test it all.

It is not exactly a process where they just go to a giant machine and press a button that says "Make another character." It is a lot of work, and far too stressful to add in at what is quite literally the last minute. Hell, even fitting a new person into their character select screen would likely be a chore, since I imagine the interface is already mapped out, with design graphics and all.

Again, KOS-MOS and Kalas will not make an appearance as first party characters until next time around, at the earliest. And although the agreement may have been in discussion for a little while, the buy out was not finalised. Why would Sakurai waste his time programming characters into a game that they may not have the rights to? Not to mention the already sticky legal situation he would be in for even programming the likenesses of these characters into the code, even if they were not used. And then somebody unlocks the debug menu on the released version, finds the hidden skins, and they have a law suit on their hands with NAMCO for including properties not owned by Nintendo in a Nintendo game.

 

[freeman123]

Nobody has any idea if it's too late for them to be included or not. You guys all sound stupid.

 

[icymatt]

Namco likely still owns the rights to both Xenosaga and Baten Kaitos. So in that respect, it really doesn't mean anything other than any future installments of those series are going to be made by someone else under Namco.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I think you over-estimate the power of the industry. A fall release does not give them three to six months to be completed. They should probably be done within a month, if that is a release window they are shooting for. Keep in mind that once the software is completed, you still have to manufacture the discs and cases, and ensure that all orders and shipments have been properly alloted to retailers. You cannot just finish a game and have it ship the next day.

And as for adding a new character, they would have to start from scratch on the body of the characters, and code new moves to button presses, design hit zones for the characters, overlay the initial body constructs with the actual skins, and then test it all.

It is not exactly a process where they just go to a giant machine and press a button that says "Make another character." It is a lot of work, and far too stressful to add in at what is quite literally the last minute. Hell, even fitting a new person into their character select screen would likely be a chore, since I imagine the interface is already mapped out, with design graphics and all.

Again, KOS-MOS and Kalas will not make an appearance as first party characters until next time around, at the earliest. And although the agreement may have been in discussion for a little while, the buy out was not finalised. Why would Sakurai waste his time programming characters into a game that they may not have the rights to? Not to mention the already sticky legal situation he would be in for even programming the likenesses of these characters into the code, even if they were not used. And then somebody unlocks the debug menu on the released version, finds the hidden skins, and they have a law suit on their hands with NAMCO for including properties not owned by Nintendo in a Nintendo game.

Just to be clear on something, I am not over-estimating the industry's capabilities, just pointing out that games have had up to the last minute production before. Besides, if I'm guilty of over-estimating Sakurai and Co.'s capabilities, then you're at fault for underestimating them... For one thing, you're making it seem like character development is more complicated than it actually is... Also, keep in mind Melee's production team much significantly smaller than the 50+ developers dedicated to the production of Brawl, in addition to having a much smaller development window and not to mention the jump from the N64 to the GC was far greater than that of the GC to the Wii.

And what makes you think that I would not take legality into account? Of course they would keep their hands off of such characters without getting permission from NAMCO first - but who's to say that NAMCO or Monolith Soft didn't already approach them concerning character inclusion? I think that the inclusion of Snake only proved how unexpected the third-party representative selection process is, and how just about ANY character with the required credentials are fair game, so long as they're first to the table...

Also, I DID in fact make for a one month allowance with my 3 - 6 months; with late August/early September being 4 months away and mid December being more than 7 months from now... Have I not said that such additions will most likely NOT occur? I was just throwing out a somewhat wild hypothetical and I really don't appreciate this little "know-it-all" act of yours. Chill out, already...

Nobody has any idea if it's too late for them to be included or not. You guys all sound stupid.

Of course we don't... We're discussing character possibilities, genius...

 

[GraniteJJ]

I could have sworn I typed a response to that post already. Strange.

Anyway, first of all, to icymatt, Namco cannot retain the original rights to those franchises. They were developed by Monolith, and published by Namco. Monolith, however, still has copyrights for all of it, and is in control of the intellectual property. Namco USED to own Monolith, which is why those games had Namco plastered on the box. Now, Nintendo owns Monolith, and it is being integrated into the fold as a second-party studio. Nintendo owns the franchises now.

And as for Sakurai and his team, I am not under-estimating their abilities. I am simply recognizing that they are human beings, and they can only accomplish so much within a given window of time. The easiest way for them to finish the game is to have it planned out, and then begin programming and editing. After that stage, certain things can be omitted or added. But once you are in the final leg of the race, it is awfully ambitious to just run back in and add something. That's why there was no co-op in Star Fox Assault. The game was nearly done, then people started saying, "Can we do co-op flight missions?" and they responded with a resounding, "Maybe." And it did not pan out. In game development, features are dropped more often than they are added.

And yes, I suppose Namco could have approached them about including Kalas or KOS-MOS (or both) in SSBB before the purchasing of Monolith. It is a slim possibility, but a possibility nonetheless. If that was the case, then they were included regardless of Nintendo's acquisition of Monolith, which is the topic of this thread. I assumed we were trying to stay in that vein. If Namco had not approached Nintendo with the idea of including Kalas or KOS-MOS, then creating sprites based on some vague premonition of Nintendo's acquisition of Monolith would have been risky legal business.

Yes, you allowed for enough time, if they push for a really late release. But I maintain that they are still close to a deadline of late 2007 (assuming that is what they are aiming for). They may not release until 2008, in which case they have all sorts of time. But given that most people have been led to believe the release is before the end of 2007, I'm inclined to think they are running out of time.

And you really do not need to tell me to 'chill out'. I'm just engaging in an intellectual debate with you. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with you, then perhaps you should stop responding. But through your rebuttals to my comments, and mine to yours, I was led to believe that we were having a discussion. If you wanted people to pat you on the back and tell you your idea was cool, you probably should have put that in your first post.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I could have sworn I typed a response to that post already. Strange.

Anyway, first of all, to icymatt, Namco cannot retain the original rights to those franchises. They were developed by Monolith, and published by Namco. Monolith, however, still has copyrights for all of it, and is in control of the intellectual property. Namco USED to own Monolith, which is why those games had Namco plastered on the box. Now, Nintendo owns Monolith, and it is being integrated into the fold as a second-party studio. Nintendo owns the franchises now.

And as for Sakurai and his team, I am not under-estimating their abilities. I am simply recognizing that they are human beings, and they can only accomplish so much within a given window of time. The easiest way for them to finish the game is to have it planned out, and then begin programming and editing. After that stage, certain things can be omitted or added. But once you are in the final leg of the race, it is awfully ambitious to just run back in and add something. That's why there was no co-op in Star Fox Assault. The game was nearly done, then people started saying, "Can we do co-op flight missions?" and they responded with a resounding, "Maybe." And it did not pan out. In game development, features are dropped more often than they are added.

And yes, I suppose Namco could have approached them about including Kalas or KOS-MOS (or both) in SSBB before the purchasing of Monolith. It is a slim possibility, but a possibility nonetheless. If that was the case, then they were included regardless of Nintendo's acquisition of Monolith, which is the topic of this thread. I assumed we were trying to stay in that vein. If Namco had not approached Nintendo with the idea of including Kalas or KOS-MOS, then creating sprites based on some vague premonition of Nintendo's acquisition of Monolith would have been risky legal business.

Yes, you allowed for enough time, if they push for a really late release. But I maintain that they are still close to a deadline of late 2007 (assuming that is what they are aiming for). They may not release until 2008, in which case they have all sorts of time. But given that most people have been led to believe the release is before the end of 2007, I'm inclined to think they are running out of time.

And you really do not need to tell me to 'chill out'. I'm just engaging in an intellectual debate with you. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with you, then perhaps you should stop responding. But through your rebuttals to my comments, and mine to yours, I was led to believe that we were having a discussion. If you wanted people to pat you on the back and tell you your idea was cool, you probably should have put that in your first post.

Star Fox Assault was a mess to begin with...

At any rate, problem wasn't with you disagreeing with me but rather the various assumptions you made regarding my position, such as the legality issue and over-estimating the industry - and I do apologize for exploding earlier... However, I must agree that it is a very slim possibility of KOS-MOS or Kalas or any other Xenosaga/Baiten Kaitos characters to make it in. What I really wanted to point out is that those characters' credentials are now that of first party status (with Nintendo owning 80% of the company's stock) and that they are no longer as far-fetched ideas as they once were, but granted that time constraints still make such inclusions highly unlikely. However, no one knows for sure just how long it takes to develop characters and the development team for Brawl has considerably more clout and manpower behind than Melee did (keep in mind there is an entire studio dedicated to Brawl's production), so the current project is likely far more productive in all aspects of the development process.

Again, Monolith Soft characters are still a long shot - no question about it. I just wanted to make note that despite the odds, such character inclusions are still possible. And unfortunately, all considerations of Ray, the main protagonist of Disaster: Day of Crisis, got lost in the firestorm over Xenosaga/Baiten Katos character inclusions. Disaster was already a co-production of Nintendo and Monolith prior to the acquisition and may have already been experimented with as a playable character - and now with Monolith under Nintendo's wing, his priority is ow much higher. But of course, it's still up in the air at this point as to who Sakurai and Co. have decided to include in their roster, which like Melee is likely to include many suprises. We'll just have to wait and see...

 

[Zarasai]

remember here that brawl has no set release date. yes, it was said we shoudl see it in 2007, but many other games have been pushed back before, so i wouldnt start counting your yoshis before they hatch just yet

 

[Chidosengan]

talking about wall of text! You guys type too much!