Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Yes. It ended a little bit before DLC wrapped up for Smash For. Albeit, most of the Smash For DLC characters chosen by then too(Bayonetta has been noted as a fairly weird case where we can't tell if the ballot had any effect on her being in the game. She was at least figured out as a plausible character with game data present while the ballot was just started in general, but even them seeing her votes could have been relevant. We don't know if she was actually already licensed and ready to go or if she was nothing more than proof of concept and those votes simply convinced Sega to say yes. We may never know the exact details. All we know is that she was a major voted for character, but also essentially "chosen" to some degree).

so then people can’t have voted for Rex on the ballot surely?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

so then people can’t have voted for Rex on the ballot surely?

Yeah, got my wires crossed. The idea of more Xenoblade Chronicles characters, yes(since it's a popular franchise). Though we knew Rex was popular regardless, but not ballot-related cause he didn't exist yet to the public eye.

My bad.

 

[SPEN18]

Piranha Plant: In particular, the actual character wasn't voted for, more likely. However, tons of general mooks do get votes because people like them(also not a joke pick. Sakurai wanted something against the grain as is)

This one sounds like taking what's happened and, with the benefit of hindsight, trying to fit it in with the narrative of "the ballot determined most/all additions." Yes, plenty of generics get votes and plenty of characters who most would consider joke picks do have legit fans. But basically all evidence we have from the ballot era suggests that no mooks did particularly well enough for it to be noticeable. The most visible one would've been like the Magnemite meme pick.

Steve/Alex absolutely were popular characters, including the ballot.

But again Minecraft wasn't seen as a realistic Smash pick back in 2015. Microsoft had just bought out Mojang in 2014 and, at the time, being owned by a Nintendo competitor like that was basically seen as a chances-killer. Characters like that were largely negatively impacted on the ballot, with the one primary exception being Banjo (who had the Nintendo roots and preexisting fanbase from those Ninty days). Perceived likelihood affecting popularity and all that. Again, for the Steve pick to have had ballot influence I think there would have had to have been a massive silent majority of young kids and/or casuals voting for Steve, and we have nothing to suggest that was the case. Doesn't mean Nintendo wouldn't recognize it if most ballot voters ended up being more hardcore fans and see that Steve was still popular even without doing well on the ballot. But that doesn't put Steve's addition in any debt to the ballot.

Terry easily got votes(even if it's mainly from one region),

And "easily got votes" is just a really low bar to clear. If Terry had anything to do with the ballot, then it's either an extreme, extreme anomaly in terms of the fanbase's estimations of who's popular or that Nintendo simply wanted Terry and dug really, really deep to justify it with the ballot, like way worse than anything alleged for Bayonetta.

Hero, like Slime, was a very popular pick, to no surprise.

The only thing I can see for Hero is like if they did a double-whammy of combining votes for all characters in the franchise AND looking at the Japan-only ranking. And even then the support probably paled in comparison to, say, Bandana Waddle Dee. Which seems like a pretty deep pull unless there were really that many popular characters considered "unfeasible"...

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, got my wires crossed. The idea of more Xenoblade Chronicles characters, yes(since it's a popular franchise). Though we knew Rex was popular regardless, but not ballot-related cause he didn't exist yet to the public eye.

My bad.

well I certainly would have voted for Rex on the ballot if I could

actually that could be an interesting topic, how many of ultimates new comers did you vote for on the ballot everyone?

 

[Ivander]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure they now fully own the Mario & Luigi stuff due to Alpha Dream going under (apparently it was originally co-owned, but I don't have a source, so don't quote me). Guess it depends on whether or not they wanna add them...

I think aside from Super Mario RPG, and the Ubisoft characters in Mario X Rabbids, I think all of the Mario spin-off characters are owned by Nintendo. If co-developing/co-owning was an issue, this should be a big issue for Waluigi as he was originally created by Camelot for Mario Tennis. But his many later appearances in Mario Kart, Mario Party and other Mario spin-offs say otherwise. Also should be noted that the Star Spirits from the first Paper Mario were used as hosts for Mario Party 5.

I really don't know why Nintendo doesn't look to the spin-offs for characters. Heck, the Mario game spin-offs already have issues with just picking random characters for playable characters and then never using them again in the next spin-off entries. But like, it makes no sense on how aside from Waluigi, no attention is given to the other spin-offs in giving them some time in Mario Kart, Party, etc.

actually that could be an interesting topic, how many of ultimates new comers did you vote for on the ballot everyone?

I voted for Simon Belmont. If multi-votes(or at least some of them) were counted by Nintendo, King K. Rool is also there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The ballot isn't about "realistic smash picks". Like, ever. It was about what people were interested in. Forget the Smash bubble. Tons of iconic characters and franchises get votes simply because the franchise exists. Remember, we're the minority, the hard core fans. The casuals were the biggest turnout. That's the reason why many votes for ones like Goku etc. because they don't care about any kind of random "appearance on a console" or whatnot. These aren't important factors to casual players. Do you honestly think they care if it's plausible? No. Because it was made clear Sakurai had to actually ignore votes because he knew they would happen. Plausibility isn't as important as you think it is. Especially when people weren't realistically expecting all characters back, and Pichu wasn't exactly expected as having some yearning for its return due to being fun to play as. Young Link? Definitely not a popular pick for returning among the hardcores. Toon Link hit that niche(though not the exact moveset style) as is, so at most said fanbase was good with switching them back and forth so the sole "child Link" niche was kept, with other hardcore fans wanting to keep it to one Link, regardless.

Besides that, Minecraft even by then was still a mega popular franchise. The ballot votes weren't needed at all either way, cause its own iconicness and sales were all that was needed. But there's no doubt it got a major amount of votes. Same as like Isabelle. Of course she got tons of votes. She just didn't need them either.

The only reason the concept, franchise, or character cannot get tons of votes is either because it's an actual very tiny one with barely any popularity or because it outright didn't exist. You can't apply that to Minecraft in any such way. The idea it did poorly has no legitimate founding. Also, we know it was in talks around 2015, right after the ballot ended. So again, the idea it had little votes is only based upon the personal hardcore fanbase. It's well known for being a mega popular franchise.

But as I said up above, "realistic Smash chances" were not really important to how the ballot went. Did you actually think Ridley got in because he was realistic? No. It's because fans wanted to see him, regardless of his previous role. Tons of popular characters got shafted in Smash For. It wouldn't stop the votes either way cause most don't actually care about previous roles.

 

[Quillion]

I really don't know why Nintendo doesn't look to the spin-offs for characters. Heck, the Mario game spin-offs already have issues with just picking random characters for playable characters and then never using them again in the next spin-off entries. But like, it makes no sense on how aside from Waluigi, no attention is given to the other spin-offs in giving them some time in Mario Kart, Party, etc.

It's most likely due to Miyamoto's attitude that Super Paper Mario didn't measure up in his eyes since it strayed so far from the usual Mario elements.

Which I actually agree with, just not the extreme overcorrection that resulted from it.

 

[Sucumbio]

actually that could be an interesting topic, how many of ultimates new comers did you vote for on the ballot everyone?

None, actually. I voted for Snake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't vote for anyone but Brian, but if I did, every veteran for sure, Ridley, K. Rool, Simon. But hey, hardcore member here. Of course I wouldn't vote for Steve/Alex. They were pretty much the only DLC character that were super easy to see coming, heh.

 

[Sucumbio]

I didn't vote for anyone but Brian, but if I did, every veteran for sure, Ridley, K. Rool, Simon. But hey, hardcore member here. Of course I wouldn't vote for Steve/Alex. They were pretty much the only DLC character that were super easy to see coming, heh.

I didn't see them coming but then again I didn't start looking until I met you fine people.

But Brian is that from Quest 64 iirc

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't see them coming but then again I didn't start looking until I met you fine people.

But Brian is that from Quest 64 iirc

The only Brian worth voting for.

 

[Wonder Smash]

actually that could be an interesting topic, how many of ultimates new comers did you vote for on the ballot everyone?

I only voted for one, which was Simon.

He was intended to be my very last MW until about 2019 when I decided that Hayabusa (a character I was only supporting at that time) seemed too good of a character to not be my next MW for Smash.

 

[MasterCheef]

Now, seeing as how Microsoft isn't willing to give BK exclusive content to Nintendo either, this does show they have limits. This does matter, and may also hurt Halo having a chance. That said, if Halo gets in Mario Kart(which let's be real, is pretty easy to see, same with it being in Smash, since Nintendo was willing to license it for a game on their system), then it does prove a lot about how licensing is extremely important. But at the end of the day, licensing costs take the most precedence. Again, if Microsoft didn't want Halo to appear on a Nintendo system, they would've denied the Minecraft bit. It's still a huge deal their flagship franchise made any kind of Nintendo appearance, and proves they are extremely open to that franchise. They aren't open perhaps to a straight-out game port, but crossover cameos were blatantly put on the table no matter how you slice it. Trying to overly think about the reasonings why doesn't... necessarily prove a thing. On the other hand, entirely ignoring context is a bad thing too.

Being Microsoft's flagship franchise, however, is really not hard to see that Microsoft wanted too much money for it to appear in any Nintendo game. Allowing it isn't an issue since they know it'll advertise their games massively. Also, keep in mind that Nintendo allowed Microsoft to make a Minecraft-based 3DS, so a hard Microsoft product being super advertised on Nintendo? You actually think Microsoft would be against the reverse? Based on what? I've seen gut feelings, not some kind of evidence to the contrary. That's why I don't see it as a legitimate issue, because it's proven to not be one. Minecraft also never appeared outside of the PC or Xbox till Microsoft took it over, btw. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that Nintendo's licensing of Microsoft exclusive content on Minecraft(which came after Minecraft appeared on Nintendo too) in general is way before BK ever could get in Smash, and even Steve took precedence. Meaning that previous Nintendo characters was clearly not a priority either way. They were a great secondary choice from the ballot of Microsoft-owned content. Besides that, there can be other reasons for a lack of spirits. We have had some credible rumors about Master Chief Collection coming to the Switch for a while now. It could be that fell through and Microsoft had tied said Halo Smash content to it as part of the deal. There's many reasons, but it's not "they aren't willing to work with Halo content on a Nintendo system" either way, as that's... as I noted, blatantly proven untrue.

Thank you.

 

[fogbadge]

None, actually. I voted for Snake.

well i think the ballot is the reason for everyone is here so you can count it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Look. It's probably like this...

Confirmed did well on ballot:

Likely did well on ballot even if not the reason for inclusion:

Maybe?:

Most likely didn't do well on ballot:

Literally didn't exist yet:

I could see Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya being popular requests in different parts of the world. Terry is insanely popular in Latin America for example. I know Sephiroth was huge in Japanese circles so maybe he did well on the ballot.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Look. It's probably like this...

Confirmed did well on ballot:

Likely did well on ballot even if not the reason for inclusion:

Maybe?:

Most likely didn't do well on ballot:

Literally didn't exist yet:

I could see Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya being popular requests in different parts of the world. Terry is insanely popular in Latin America for example. I know Sephiroth was huge in Japanese circles so maybe he did well on the ballot.

Might as well toss Cloud on there, iirc Sakurai mentioned FF did well on the ballot and Cloud was the lion's share of requests there. The cut veterans also got a boost from the ballot, so at least Snake ICs and Wolf could be there.

There also is non character content that also likely came from the ballot. Lots of AT stuff this time and Mii Costumes were popular characters, so likely it played at least some part. Not amazing data since we don't have public results or statements for the ballot, but it does give us some idea.

 

[SPEN18]

The ballot isn't about "realistic smash picks". Like, ever. It was about what people were interested in.

More ideally, yeah, people would just vote for what they want and not care about likelihood. But in practice, perceived likelihood generally affects performance in polls and we saw it with the ballot, where for example AT'd characters like Waluigi or Ashley got less traction than they otherwise would have while non-AT'd Isaac had an easier time coming to the forefront, and generally Microsoft/Sony characters or others who weren't on Ninty consoles at the time didn't do as well as they would, say, these days. It's easy to forget it now after he's gotten in and been championed as a fan pick, but Ridley absolutely got overshadowed by some of the other big fan picks like K. Rool, Isaac, Banjo, etc. in the aftermath of getting boss'd in 4. He still did well on the ballot (because as you say some fans will vote regardless) but it probably wasn't commensurate with his actual popularity standing. Basically all of the data and anything you can glean from what people were putting out on the net regarding the ballot, even in more "mainstream" media outlets, I think is consistent with this.

orget the Smash bubble. Tons of iconic characters and franchises get votes simply because the franchise exists. Remember, we're the minority, the hard core fans. The casuals were the biggest turnout. That's the reason why many votes for ones like Goku etc. because they don't care about any kind of random "appearance on a console" or whatnot. These aren't important factors to casual players. Do you honestly think they care if it's plausible? No. Because it was made clear Sakurai had to actually ignore votes because he knew they would happen. Plausibility isn't as important as you think it is. Especially when people weren't realistically expecting all characters back, and Pichu wasn't exactly expected as having some yearning for its return due to being fun to play as. Young Link? Definitely not a popular pick for returning among the hardcores. Toon Link hit that niche(though not the exact moveset style) as is, so at most said fanbase was good with switching them back and forth so the sole "child Link" niche was kept, with other hardcore fans wanting to keep it to one Link, regardless.

What you're saying about the Melee vets and the hardcore minority vs. casual silent majority is actually contradictory. Votes for the Melee vets showed up in the exit polls significantly; a lot of hardcore fans also subscribe to vet pandering and it showed.

Perceived likelihood is far from the only factor, and in many cases I don't really like it being a factor, but as I said basically any tangible evidence you can find points to it playing a significant role in this case. There were some exceptions, like Banjo or veterans who certain circles badly wanted back, for example, which had specific reasons for getting votes despite seeming nigh impossible. But broadly the perceived likelihood factor had its greatest effect I think when a character was viewed not simply as unlikely, but rendered logistically or systematically impossible to some (i.e. people not believing in AT/boss promotions, people believing in the Nintendo platform appearance rule, etc.).

I acknowledged the possibility of a large, silent casual voting audience going overwhelmingly towards certain picks, particularly various non-Ninty picks that were viewed as impossible by much of the hardcore fanbase, but there's...basically no evidence to suggest that played a significant role. It seems equally likely without further evidence either way that the body of casual votes was too split between random characters to push any particular pick like a Terry or a Hero towards the top. Sure, those characters made it into Ult, but as has been acknowledged, those characters simply had other reasons besides ballot votes that made them fit the bill for a DLC slot.

Of course plenty of franchises got votes simply for being major players in general gaming, but I don't think it was nearly as many as you purport, since the ballot was advertised and circulated primarily among people already playing Smash, already owning and being invested in Ninty platforms/games. At that time, picks like Chief or Terry had little to no actual traction in any visible circles, and it's hard to imagine a cluster of casual votes that were focused/united enough to push any one of them to the top. Who knows, maybe the casual audience went overwhelmingly for one of the picks that intersected with the hardcore votes, like a Bomberman for example. Seems just about as plausible as them going for someone like Terry (sorry to pick on him like multiple times).

The idea it did poorly has no legitimate founding

What is the legitimate founding for it doing well, though, besides just "it's a mega-popular franchise"? Part of the point is that plenty of mega-popular franchises simply didn't do well because not all fans of a given franchise also want that franchise in Smash (or care about Smash at all), or view it as a particularly reasonable newcomer request. Some will ignore the "reasonableness" of the request, but some will not. The only evidence of MC doing well is simple guesswork that a popular franchise probably got some votes. To the contrary, the polling data and general activity level surrounding the possibility of MC in Smash at the time suggest that it didn't do as well as its popularity among non-Smash fans might suggest.

Also, we know it was in talks around 2015, right after the ballot ended.

It is not confirmed that it was after the ballot ended. In Source Gaming's "Smash Ultimate Development Timeline," one of the linked sources suggests that negotiations for Steve could have started as far back as 2014, before the ballot. In which case the ballot would have had nothing to do with Steve's inclusion.

 

[Aligo]

As far as stuff goes for a post-ultimate ballot/return for veterans, character future proofing had to be kept in mind. If a character is easy to add, it is more likely that they will return. Some will be very easy like jigglypuff or P&M, as very few or no new resources need to be made for the next game, and don't have features that might break with an engine change. Contrast with say bayonetta, who may need a va and model change due to recent events, or Steve who has no asset work, but will take extensive coding to properly function in a new engine ( not that Steve isn't buggy currently).

A lot of cuts probably come down to convenience rather than popularity, though I guess ice climbers are have issues in both... Rip

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As far as stuff goes for a post-ultimate ballot/return for veterans, character future proofing had to be kept in mind. If a character is easy to add, it is more likely that they will return. Some will be very easy like jigglypuff or P&M, as very few or no new resources need to be made for the next game, and don't have features that might break with an engine change. Contrast with say bayonetta, who may need a va and model change due to recent events, or Steve who has no asset work, but will take extensive coding to properly function in a new engine ( not that Steve isn't buggy currently).

A lot of cuts probably come down to convenience rather than popularity, though I guess ice climbers are have issues in both... Rip

Ice Climbers was only related to coding issues. They were never chosen due to popularity after all. There were many retro options of far more memorable games. They got in for their gimmick, which overall played a key role in the actual reason for their cut in For. You need two for it to really work. While they apply for relevance, they would've been cut in Brawl much more easily if that mattered, since they're not easy to program to begin with. That, and keep in mind they were massively cried for upon their cut in For, so lack of popularity is pretty hard to believe at that point. Overall, it's just... programming errors at the end of the day(and maybe relevance, though it has no evidence to suggest it).

In fact, many cuts are uncited. Pichu, Young Link, Snake. Wolf and Ness both at least are somewhat referred to as a relevance factor. Mewtwo has never been clear why it was cut. It could be that Jigglypuff had a bigger priority due to being easier to make, and Mewtwo was the next in line. Pichu wasn't as popular in Smash, sure. Some disliked its damage-self mechanic overall. A very popular Pokemon, less so in Smash specifically. Young Link had little complaints, it's just people accepted it oftentimes cause Toon Link took the niche. Snake is guessed to be licensing, but we weren't even given that as an explanation. He's just... not there. for some reason. Wolf had no new games coming out and is harder to make than Falco, having far more unique abilities(Falco has some more popularity, but Wolf isn't unpopular either). We almost had a new Star Fox game come in time, but it was also delayed again. So any chance for Wolf having enough relevancy to return to DLC in For went out the window. In addition, Lucas was overall more popular, part of why he returned as DLC. To clarify further, DLC for veterans was unique; the most popular is Mewtwo. Melee's big popularity went to Roy. And Brawl went for Lucas as highly popular(this could also be that he actually was involved in the SSE, where Wolf wasn't, which may have influenced who was more favored). Also worth noting for Pichu is that if Pra_Mai was Plusle and Minun like theorized, it was probably just a quick replacement with someone who have similar models and abilities to go with the latest Generations of Pokemon. There's various reasons why it might not have been those two Pokemon, but that's not really relevant to what's being said here.

 

[silenthunder]

well I certainly would have voted for Rex on the ballot if I could

actually that could be an interesting topic, how many of ultimates new comers did you vote for on the ballot everyone?

I voted for three

 

[SPEN18]

If a character is easy to add

Just gonna hammer home again that no character is easy to add; it's only that some are easier to add. Even rehashing clones from 4 to Ult took considerable work. The only PC type that might be reasonably called "easy" is an Echo with basically no prominent gameplay changes that would affect the balancing and such (and even then it's not like Echoes are added without proper forethought or come in unlimited supply).

Sorry to nitpick, but it's an important point that vet retention is no simple task. It's grueling.

But yes, some vets could get a leg up for using less resources than some of their cohorts.

 

[Aligo]

Just gonna hammer home again that no character is easy to add; it's only that some are easier to add. Even rehashing clones from 4 to Ult took considerable work. The only PC type that might be reasonably called "easy" is an Echo with basically no prominent gameplay changes that would affect the balancing and such (and even then it's not like Echoes are added without proper forethought or come in unlimited supply).

Sorry to nitpick, but it's an important point that vet retention is no simple task. It's grueling.

But yes, some vets could get a leg up for using less resources than some of their cohorts.

I guess it is more in relative terms- how many fire emblem characters could you make in the time it takes to make one functional Steve or kazuya?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just gonna hammer home again that no character is easy to add; it's only that some are easier to add. Even rehashing clones from 4 to Ult took considerable work. The only PC type that might be reasonably called "easy" is an Echo with basically no prominent gameplay changes that would affect the balancing and such (and even then it's not like Echoes are added without proper forethought or come in unlimited supply).

Sorry to nitpick, but it's an important point that vet retention is no simple task. It's grueling.

But yes, some vets could get a leg up for using less resources than some of their cohorts.

I feel like a character being "easier" is implied with the wording. This is arguing semantics.

 

[SPEN18]

I guess it is more in relative terms- how many fire emblem characters could you make in the time it takes to make one functional Steve or kazuya?

Is this a joke? (sorry, can't tell)

But it depends on who they are. Maybe just one.

I feel like a character being "easier" is implied with the wording. This is arguing semantics.

It is a nitpick, yes, and I acknowledged that in my post. Although it was said that "some will be very easy like Jigglypuff or P&M," which sounds a little stronger than a little grammatical mixup between "easy" and "easier."

But to give the issue more substance, I think the difference even between, say, Jipplypuff and Steve might not be much as some people would think. Like, in any case Puff still takes a ton of effort. Even a bonafide clone like Brawl Wolf was allegedly 70% of the work a unique, so over half. Jiggs is way far away from a straight clone of anybody.

 

[Laniv]

More Mario Kart 8 is definitely great, although a row of new DLC characters would've been nice. Also would be nice if they weren't so stingy with adding Mario Spin-off characters that aren't Wario, Waluigi or Daisy, like WarioWare or Mario & Luigi.

To this very day, I ponder why they never added Wario's biker outfit as an alt, at the very least.

His dang bike was in Wii dangit >:T

EDIT: Wait I just remembered Mario Kart Tour had several opportunities to add Biker Wario, and they just... didn't. Jeez.

 

[Garteam]

I have awakened from my hibernation with another roster for a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe. Characters with red borders are base game newcomers, characters with green borders are echoes, and characters with yellow borders are DLC fighters. The unmarked Pokemon is a placeholder for a Gen 9 (or 10) Pokemon, while the unmarked newcomers are placeholders for whatever is being promoted at that time.

Spoiler

BASE GAME NEWCOMERS
1. Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Paldean Pokemon (or Gen 10 Pokemon if Gen 10 will be a thing when this game is released)
5. Isaac
6. Octoling
7. Ring Fit Adventurer
8. Excitebiker
9. Bomberman
10. Tails
11. X (shares a character slot with and can be swapped with Zero midbattle)
12. Zero (shares a character slot with and can be swapped with X midbattle)
13. Crash Bandicoot

ECHO FIGHTERS
1. Dixie Kong
2. Tetra
3. Galacta Knight
4. Jin
5. Shadow

DLC NEWCOMERS
1. Jill Valentine (with Chris Redfield, Claire Redfield, and Leon Kennedy skins)
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. The Doom Slayer
4. Kazuma Kiryu
5. Corporate Placation Character #1
6. Geno
7. Master Chief
8. Dante
9. Ezio
10. Corporate Placation Character #2
11. Kasumi (Dead or Alive)
12. Kratos

 

[Capybara Gaming]

If Bayo comes back next Smash, I kinda hope she brings Viola with her, be it as an assist trophy or a fellow fighter.

(Bayo 3 is really freaking good guys)

 

[fogbadge]

But yes, some vets could get a leg up for using less resources than some of their cohorts.

especially if they just port over assets as usual

(Bayo 3 is really freaking good guys)

hmm an oxymoron

 

[Gengar84]

I have awakened from my hibernation with another roster for a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe. Characters with red borders are base game newcomers, characters with green borders are echoes, and characters with yellow borders are DLC fighters. The unmarked Pokemon is a placeholder for a Gen 9 (or 10) Pokemon, while the unmarked newcomers are placeholders for whatever is being promoted at that time.
View attachment 363042

Spoiler

BASE GAME NEWCOMERS
1. Waluigi
2. Skull Kid
3. Bandana Waddle Dee
4. Paldean Pokemon (or Gen 10 Pokemon if Gen 10 will be a thing when this game is released)
5. Isaac
6. Octoling
7. Ring Fit Adventurer
8. Excitebiker
9. Bomberman
10. Tails
11. X (shares a character slot with and can be swapped with Zero midbattle)
12. Zero (shares a character slot with and can be swapped with X midbattle)
13. Crash Bandicoot

ECHO FIGHTERS
1. Dixie Kong
2. Tetra
3. Galacta Knight
4. Jin
5. Shadow

DLC NEWCOMERS
1. Jill Valentine (with Chris Redfield, Claire Redfield, and Leon Kennedy skins)
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. The Doom Slayer
4. Kazuma Kiryu
5. Corporate Placation Character #1
6. Geno
7. Master Chief
8. Dante
9. Ezio
10. Corporate Placation Character #2
11. Kasumi (Dead or Alive)
12. Kratos

That’s a solid list. None of my absolute favorites other than X and Zero but I feel like this would please a lot of people. X and Zero would be one of my favorite Smash characters overall though. I really want Dixie but I’d much rather see her as a unique character rather than an echo. I could live with an echo though since it’s better than nothing. The Pokémon completely depends on which one is chosen. Some, I’d be hyped for and others I wouldn’t care too much.

 

[Sucumbio]

So this has come up before but I never really figured out so, what do you all really think of Pokemon trainer?

Personally, I love the concept and when the character came to us in Brawl, I was happy with the 3 Pokemon, and the ability to change in between them during a fight, and in Ultimate I think the Pokemon Trainer is a solid character.

Should they stick around?
Get different pokemon?
Transformation gimmicks suck?
Could we have multiple trainers with 3 Pokemon each, which represents their "deck" so to speak (my card deck was usually water type heavy)?

 

[fogbadge]

So this has come up before but I never really figured out so, what do you all really think of Pokemon trainer?

Personally, I love the concept and when the character came to us in Brawl, I was happy with the 3 Pokemon, and the ability to change in between them during a fight, and in Ultimate I think the Pokemon Trainer is a solid character.

Should they stick around?
Get different pokemon?
Transformation gimmicks suck?
Could we have multiple trainers with 3 Pokemon each, which represents their "deck" so to speak (my card deck was usually water type heavy)?

he’s my go to fighter after link

 

[Capybara Gaming]

especially if they just port over assets as usual



hmm an oxymoron

Do you even know what an oxymoron is?
And have you ever even touched a Bayonetta game, much less Bayo 3? Because in all my interaction with you, you've struck me as the kind of person who looks at something once, decides it isn't for you, then proceeds to dump on it at every opportunity.

 

[fogbadge]

Do you even know what an oxymoron is?
And have you ever even touched a Bayonetta game, much less Bayo 3? Because in all my interaction with you, you've struck me as the kind of person who looks at something once, decides it isn't for you, then proceeds to dump on it at every opportunity.

an oxymoron is when you describe something in a contradictory way. For example saying have a happy execution or have fun being bored.
Yes you said that to me before in what could only be described as you taking issue with someone not liking Star Trek

 

[Capybara Gaming]

an oxymoron is when you describe something in a contradictory way. For example saying have a happy execution or have fun being bored.
Yes you said that to me before in what could only be described as you taking issue with someone not liking Star Trek

Yes, I know what it is. I asked you because nothing in what I said could be considered an oxymoron.

Bayonetta 3 is a really good game.

Please explain, oh wise sage, what about this statement contradicts itself.

 

[Gengar84]

So this has come up before but I never really figured out so, what do you all really think of Pokemon trainer?

Personally, I love the concept and when the character came to us in Brawl, I was happy with the 3 Pokemon, and the ability to change in between them during a fight, and in Ultimate I think the Pokemon Trainer is a solid character.

Should they stick around?
Get different pokemon?
Transformation gimmicks suck?
Could we have multiple trainers with 3 Pokemon each, which represents their "deck" so to speak (my card deck was usually water type heavy)?

I love Pokémon Trainer but I’m not particularly good with them. I’m always in favor of transformation characters like PT and Pyra/Mythra so I’d be sad to see Squirtle and Ivysaur go again. I’d accept it if we got Blastoise as a replacement since it’s my brother’s favorite Pokémon and second most wanted after Battletoads.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes, I know what it is. I asked you because nothing in what I said could be considered an oxymoron.

Bayonetta 3 is a really good game.

Please explain, oh wise sage, what about this statement contradicts itself.

Well there’s this thing called sarcasm that people use to make fun of other people, for example you would mock a person for liking something that you yourself don’t like. so by describing bayo as fun me calling it an oxymoron is implying that bayo can’t be fun and ergo makes fun of you at the same time. we call this banter where I come from

 

[Quillion]

So this has come up before but I never really figured out so, what do you all really think of Pokemon trainer?

Personally, I love the concept and when the character came to us in Brawl, I was happy with the 3 Pokemon, and the ability to change in between them during a fight, and in Ultimate I think the Pokemon Trainer is a solid character.

Should they stick around?
Get different pokemon?
Transformation gimmicks suck?
Could we have multiple trainers with 3 Pokemon each, which represents their "deck" so to speak (my card deck was usually water type heavy)?

I still think Pkmn Trainer should transform by Shield B, allowing all three to have a full set of specials.

Same with Pythra. But Zelda and Sheik should stay separate.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Well there’s this thing called sarcasm that people use to make fun of other people, for example you would mock a person for liking something that you yourself don’t like. so by describing bayo as fun me calling it an oxymoron is implying that bayo can’t be fun and ergo makes fun of you at the same time. we call this banter where I come from

And from where i come from we don't unnecessarily mock people for just liking things. We just let people enjoy them instead of being an unprompted, uncalled for jerk

 

[Gengar84]

Well there’s this thing called sarcasm that people use to make fun of other people, for example you would mock a person for liking something that you yourself don’t like. so by describing bayo as fun me calling it an oxymoron is implying that bayo can’t be fun and ergo makes fun of you at the same time. we call this banter where I come from

Why do you feel the need to make fun of someone just because they like something that you don’t? Everyone has their own tastes in gaming and no one is wrong for liking any particular thing. I think we need to try to be a bit more respectful. If you don’t like something. rather than insulting it or mocking anyone, maybe just say that you don’t personally care for it if you feel the need to say anything at all.

 

[silenthunder]

Can I change the subject? Anybody want any newcomers that don't get talked about? Also I read a japanese news article and people in the comments mentioned Felyne (from Monster Hunter), Icey (Icey), and Adol Christian (Ys). ever heard of 'em