Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, nowadays, I don't think anyone has a problem with sprites as a style, but compared to models, they are an absolute chore to work with, given that they need to be rendered frame-by-frame

Just wait until you learn about The King of Fighters XIII's sprites, and how they almost bankrupted SNK and forced them to butcher movesets since it was taking too long to draw all the moves fighters previously had.

 

[Gengar84]

So it looks like we’re getting some kind of Pokémon presentation this weekend (sorry if this has already been discussed). Does anyone think there is a chance they will reveal Gen 9 or is it still too soon after Legends Arceus. I’m personally not expecting it until next year but I’ve seen a lot of people predicting it over at GameFAQS so maybe I’m wrong.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So it looks like we’re getting some kind of Pokémon presentation this weekend (sorry if this has already been discussed). Does anyone think there is a chance they will reveal Gen 9 or is it still too soon after Legends Arceus. I’m personally not expecting it until next year but I’ve seen a lot of people predicting it over at GameFAQS so maybe I’m wrong.

Where is the anime at? That's usually a pretty good indication of when a new generation is around the corner.

 

[Gengar84]

Where is the anime at? That's usually a pretty good indication of when a new generation is around the corner.

I don’t watch the anime but from what I’ve heard it seems to be hinting at wrapping things up. I think they did something different this season and didn’t do a strictly Galar anime but rather several episodes spanning every region so it’s hard to really say. It does seem like it might be lining up with the announcement of a new game. I’m just not sure they’d want to take attention away from Legends so soon with a reveal of a new game. Sword and Shield definitely showed that they could also use more development time for their main entries as it was lacking in a lot of areas.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So it looks like we’re getting some kind of Pokémon presentation this weekend (sorry if this has already been discussed).

Probably just announcing DLC and Home integration for Legends.

 

[Gengar84]

Probably just announcing DLC and Home integration for Legends.

Yeah, that’s honestly what I’m expecting. I’ll take the exclusive Legends Arceus Pokémon being transferrable to Sword and Shield for now. That would renew my interest in the game for at least a few weeks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, that’s honestly what I’m expecting. I’ll take the exclusive Legends Arceus Pokémon being transferrable to Sword and Shield for now. That would renew my interest in the game for at least a few weeks.

I just need them in Home. Always keep the living Pokedex complete!

Plus, Legends is the first time I've had all the Unown since Gold. So I'll be able to make up a box for that.

 

[Ivander]

Was the purchase of Monolith Soft a defensive one? I don't recall them having an especially close relationship to Nintendo prior to the buyout, and gleening over this, it sounds to me like the purchase was more of a willing request on Monolith's end (though wasn't the staff at Rare also hopeful for a Nintendo buy-out? Granted, Nintendo themselves may've learned not to repeat such a mistake after the fact).

Business-wise, they didn't really, aside from Baten Kaitos 2. But the Monolith devs and the main head developer did personally know Iwata and the staff at Nintendo and when they felt their business with Namco was becoming poor, they wanted Nintendo to buy them and Iwata was 100% on board with allowing Monolith keep doing their own thing and creativity. And Namco was quite fine with it, allowing Monolith to be bought by Nintendo.

All-in-all, Nintendo getting Monolith certainly paid off, with Monolith creating Xenoblade which has become one of Nintendo's big franchises and became a part of Smash Bros. with Shulk, Pyra and Mythra, and Monolith has been a powerhouse for Nintendo in helping with titles like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 1 through 3 and Animal Crossing New Leaf and New Horizons. Not to mention titles like Project X Zone 1 and 2. Getting Monolith and letting them do their own thing and letting Monolith help them with their titles benefited Nintendo greatly.

 

[Chuderz]

All-in-all, Nintendo getting Monolith certainly paid off, with Monolith creating Xenoblade which has become one of Nintendo's big franchises and became a part of Smash Bros. with Shulk, Pyra and Mythra, and Monolith has been a powerhouse for Nintendo in helping with titles like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 1 through 3 and Animal Crossing New Leaf and New Horizons. Not to mention titles like Project X Zone 1 and 2. Getting Monolith and letting them do their own thing and letting Monolith help them with their titles benefited Nintendo greatly.

I feel like Xenoblade isn't really a big Nintendo franchise despite the fact that Nintendo tries to make it one. Pikmin 3 Deluxe and Arms sold better than Xenoblade 2 and 1 remaster. I wish Nintendo tried as hard with series like Eternal Darkness and F-Zero.

 

[dream1ng]

Xenoblade is fairly niche-ish, but for a JRPG positively plastered in anime, it's done well for itself commercially in parts of the world where it's a bit harder to crack through.

If you think about it, there are only a very select few JRPG franchises that are actually big outside Japan, so Xenoblade not being one of them isn't that damning.

But no, it's not one of Nintendo's big franchises, just a fairly active one. Perhaps the attention it gets online gives it a misleading impression, but online is not a proportionately accurate measure of total audience size. It's not a faithful microcosm.

I wish Nintendo tried as hard with series like Eternal Darkness and F-Zero.

IPs that weren't necessarily unsuccessful, but don't have a dedicated, steady developer (Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox, DK, Kid Icarus, etc.) have a tougher go than those which seem to have a specific team tied to them. If we're lucky MercurySteam can stick with Metroid, WayForward with AW, and that alleged EPD Tokyo team with DK so to protect those series from going back into flux.

And Star Fox just desperately needs a team which can understand, evolve, and dedicate themselves to that franchise. Nintendo has no clue was to do with it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And Star Fox just desperately needs a team which can understand, evolve, and dedicate themselves to that franchise. Nintendo has no clue was to do with it.

I'm sure Platinum could be that team, but Nintendo insisted on incorporating Wii U gimmicks.

We really need an SF Zero port just to see if there truly is a good game hidden behind forced Gamepad stuff, if anything.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm sure Platinum could be that team, but Nintendo insisted on incorporating Wii U gimmicks.

We really need an SF Zero port just to see if there truly is a good game hidden behind forced Gamepad stuff, if anything.

Plus, more people need to experience the joy of Peppy saying "BARREL ROLL!" every time he does a Barrel Roll.

 

[Chalphy]

Business-wise, they didn't really, aside from Baten Kaitos 2. But the Monolith devs and the main head developer did personally know Iwata and the staff at Nintendo and when they felt their business with Namco was becoming poor, they wanted Nintendo to buy them and Iwata was 100% on board with allowing Monolith keep doing their own thing and creativity. And Namco was quite fine with it, allowing Monolith to be bought by Nintendo.

All-in-all, Nintendo getting Monolith certainly paid off, with Monolith creating Xenoblade which has become one of Nintendo's big franchises and became a part of Smash Bros. with Shulk, Pyra and Mythra, and Monolith has been a powerhouse for Nintendo in helping with titles like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 1 through 3 and Animal Crossing New Leaf and New Horizons. Not to mention titles like Project X Zone 1 and 2. Getting Monolith and letting them do their own thing and letting Monolith help them with their titles benefited Nintendo greatly.

That's not actually true. Nintendo took interest in the company as soon as it was founded. Former Nintendo executive Shinji Hatano, went to MS and Namco and asked them to create an original RPG for the GameCube, hence the creation of Baten Kaitos.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Really, the development of Xenoblade via the work with Monolith Soft was a pragmatic move, because it more or less created a growing third pillar of first party RPG's for Nintendo to utilize alongside Fire Emblem and Pokémon (all while getting third party role play titles from typical outside developers). All three have distinct identities, play differently enough from each other, and two of them are growing in popularity in the West. The elevation of two thirds of those (FE & XC) has been one of the big franchise success in the last decade, alongside the launching of Splatoon, and effectively getting Zelda's momentum back via BotW.

It'd be great to see Nintendo do the same with their platformers. Mario titles at the center, with DK as the more challenging counterpart, and Yoshi perhaps emerging as the somewhat easier, but more exploration focused variation. The indie scene has demonstrated the genre still has a lot of lifeblood, and getting the kind of regular focus outside Mario could do wonders, especially if they could squeeze in a Wario Land title here and there.

As far as Star Fox, it just needs a core identity beyond gimmicks to really thrive. My own preference might be a focused space shooter, but even something in the vein of the Lego Star Wars Skywalker Saga demonstrates there's potential in utilizing levels on the ground and in space. It just needs to feel like a big deal again and not just another experiment because the company has so little faith in the property, unless it has a funny hat.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So it looks like we’re getting some kind of Pokémon presentation this weekend (sorry if this has already been discussed). Does anyone think there is a chance they will reveal Gen 9 or is it still too soon after Legends Arceus. I’m personally not expecting it until next year but I’ve seen a lot of people predicting it over at GameFAQS so maybe I’m wrong.

I think Arceus dlc is a much much safer bet.

Spoiler

The code in the game has been datamined and the code for megas was put back in for a lot of pokemon. Likely, we will be seeing Megas show up in Arceus' DLC. Combine that with the fact that they still clearly have merchandising plans to take advantage of for Arceus, I doubt we will get Gen 9 this year. We will likely see Arceus get its merchandise, get its DLC, and then next year we will probably get our first news of Gen 9.

Expect the content to be focused on BDSP and Arceus. Probably we will see BDSP get the Global Wonder Station patch be announced with some QOL changes. For Arceus we will probably see a new area added as DLC and we get new pokemon there. I also would not exactly be shocked if we hear of both HOME compatibility for both games and potentially updating BDSP to be compatible with the pokemon in Arceus.

Where is the anime at? That's usually a pretty good indication of when a new generation is around the corner.

They kinda future proofed the anime for this season. Instead of venturing around a single region and going through the league, its more or less misc pokemon escapades across different regions. They have been to Alola, Sinnoh, Galar, the works. Honestly all they need to do is update the roster of Pokemon on Goh and you could keep this formula more or less in tact.

Essentially, no clear endpoint in sight especially compared to say Alola or Kalos.

 

[Arcanir]

There is actually an endpoint for Pokemon Journeys, at least on Ash's side: Ash's goal for the season is to beat Leon, who resides in the Top 8 of the PWC at the number one spot. As of today's episode he's Top 15 and it's not a gradual increase as he's jumped up multiple ranks from one battle (his battle with Marnie had him go from 36th to 15th). Theoretically nothing stops the writers from getting him into Top 8 with the next battle and then finishing things off with a last tournament arc, which if they sped through things could be done before November when the next game would hypothetically drop.

That said, from what I've seen Journeys is no stranger to spreading things out so the last few battles can be pushed off for as long as they need.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Really, the development of Xenoblade via the work with Monolith Soft was a pragmatic move, because it more or less created a growing third pillar of first party RPG's for Nintendo to utilize alongside Fire Emblem and Pokémon (all while getting third party role play titles from typical outside developers). All three have distinct identities, play differently enough from each other, and two of them are growing in popularity in the West. The elevation of two thirds of those (FE & XC) has been one of the big franchise success in the last decade, alongside the launching of Splatoon, and effectively getting Zelda's momentum back via BotW.

It'd be great to see Nintendo do the same with their platformers. Mario titles at the center, with DK as the more challenging counterpart, and Yoshi perhaps emerging as the somewhat easier, but more exploration focused variation. The indie scene has demonstrated the genre still has a lot of lifeblood, and getting the kind of regular focus outside Mario could do wonders, especially if they could squeeze in a Wario Land title here and there.

As far as Star Fox, it just needs a core identity beyond gimmicks to really thrive. My own preference might be a focused space shooter, but even something in the vein of the Lego Star Wars Skywalker Saga demonstrates there's potential in utilizing levels on the ground and in space. It just needs to feel like a big deal again and not just another experiment because the company has so little faith in the property, unless it has a funny hat.

I agree a lot with this, Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are a very strong core RPG foundation for Nintendo to build on. I just wish Golden Sun could've been part of this too, it was the perfect answer from Nintendo to the loss of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy on their systems... Part of me still hopes a remake could change this.

Platformers also could take this approach yeah, Mario and Donkey Kong are already very different, and it should be kept this way. There's a lot they still could do with the IP, a lot of untapped potential. There's also Kirby to consider but luckily Kirby always did their own thing anyway.

Star Fox also really needs a revival of sorts. I think they where going along a good way with Assault, I wouldn't mind more games like that honestly. On foot missions would fit Star Fox great, could have a lot of potential if they would just try. The Arwing parts need no change, but mix it up with switching fast to on foot missions with a mechanic for shooting like in Assault, but with CQC based on the combat in Adventures more or less but a little faster , and that seems like solid gameplay.

 

[Stratos]

As we all know, Nintendo was founded on September 23, 1889 and was dealing with hanafuda cards at that time. In their box was painted Daitoryou depicting Napoleon, but there was another Tengu. It could be in future Super Smash Bros. games they put one or both of them and their moves are based on hanafuda cards. Although Tengu seems more likely to me because Daitouryou as I wrote depicts Napoleon, someone who was a real person. They write to put them not only as newcomers but also as symbols of what Nintendo started with when it was founded.

Daitouryou

Tengu

 

[Diddy Kong]

As we all know, Nintendo was founded on September 23, 1889 and was dealing with hanafuda cards at that time. In their box was painted Daitoryou depicting Napoleon, but there was another Tengu. It could be in future Super Smash Bros. games they put one or both of them and their moves are based on hanafuda cards. Although Tengu seems more likely to me because Daitouryou as I wrote depicts Napoleon, someone who was a real person. They write to put them not only as newcomers but also as symbols of what Nintendo started with when it was founded.



View attachment 346150Daitouryou View attachment 346146 Tengu

View attachment 346148

Are you Blue Pikmin?

 

[Stratos]

Are you Blue Pikmin?

Blue Pikmin?

 

[Chuderz]

I think Starfox needs to go big or go home next attempt if it even gets that chance.

This is a post of mine from a month ago talking about what I liked about Starlink and how it could transfer over to a dedicated Star Fox game.

Spoiler: Starlink/Starfox

Speaking of a Star Fox game I did get the complete package of Starlink on Switch on sale a couple of weeks ago.

Wow what a proof of concept for the series. Make the Lylat system "open-world" and thus allow the player to traverse through the solar system in any order they want after the initial start. Include specific character campaigns for each pilot. Bring back Krystal and the two other gals from Star Fox 2 as either their own team or the female half to Star Fox (bench Peppy with ROB) and maybe even include player Star Wolf missions Halo 2 style. Customize ships and maybe include a multiplayer with air battles, racing (Star Fox GP anyone?) and even the old-school third-person pilot gunner battles from the old games. Traveling between the planets should harken back to the rail shooter roots (as in like airship obstacle courses to get between the planets and random airbattles/meteor fields encounters) but I think it should mostly get left behind other than that in favor of the open-system model. Finally let the player leave the ship to go through towns/cities on each planet to collect gear, cosmetics for your ship, parts for gear and ships, side-quests and homebase (hub) upgrades. Hopefully fully voice acted throughout to really sell the audience on the Star Fox series' inherent charm.

Seriously impressed with it despite the usual Ubisoft blandness. If the game was made as the most ambitious Star Fox game from the start (as I've imagined) then I think the future of the series could be a very prosperous one. Miyamoto has said he really wants Star Fox to be bigger than it is but Zero isn't how you do it. Starlink isn't exactly it either through no real fault of its own but it's a perfect starting point to get there.

It's really time to go all in and for Nintendo to try and really build a franchise here. Starfox has all that potential but Nintendo is never willing to take a risk on anything other than Metroid for some reason. It'd need serious 4-5 year AAA developmental though because unfortunately Starfox is set in space which implies expansiveness as an inherent part of its setting. I think the major problem besides the risk factor is that once this kind of Starfox game was achieved and potentially successful then there isn't much you can really do for the franchise besides THAT (4-5 year AAA supergame) kind of game. Maybe a spinoff strategy game? There's a little bit of wiggle room for the series but not much.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

With the Nintendo-Panda Global Deal, Sony owning Evo and ,the most important reason, the nature and steep decline of Smash Community, This was a long time coming and honestly, the best course of action.

pic.twitter.com/7YEX1ZgG4W

— Evo (@Evo) February 26, 2022

 

[chocolatejr9]

With the Nintendo-Panda Global Deal, Sony owning Evo and ,the most important reason, the nature and steep decline of Smash Community, This was a long time coming and honestly, the best course of action.

pic.twitter.com/7YEX1ZgG4W

— Evo (@Evo) February 26, 2022

Yeah, the writing was on the wall here...

 

[Shroob]

With the Nintendo-Panda Global Deal, Sony owning Evo and ,the most important reason, the nature and steep decline of Smash Community, This was a long time coming and honestly, the best course of action.

pic.twitter.com/7YEX1ZgG4W

— Evo (@Evo) February 26, 2022

Are we still trying to push the "Smash fanbase bad" narrative?


Because the obvious reason why this is happening is the first two deals.



If the highlighted reason was the cause, then ****ing Nintendo themselves wouldn't have struck up a deal.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

With the Nintendo-Panda Global Deal, Sony owning Evo and ,the most important reason, the nature and steep decline of Smash Community, This was a long time coming and honestly, the best course of action.

pic.twitter.com/7YEX1ZgG4W

— Evo (@Evo) February 26, 2022

The most important reason being the Smash Community? Oh you mean the community that kept Melee alive for 20+ years? The community that created one of the most feature rich mods ever made out of pure envy of the franchise? The community that made competitive Smash what it is today?

Yeah must’ve been their fault.

 

[Shroob]

The most important reason being the Smash Community? Oh you mean the community that kept Melee alive for 20+ years? The community that created one of the most feature rich mods ever made out of pure envy of the franchise? The community that made competitive Smash what it is today?

Yeah must’ve been their fault.

I mean, remember who you're talking with tbh, this fella's the one who says Ultimate's a trash game due to a bunch of pros being outed as creeps.

 

[Chuderz]

Lame.

I hope somewhere down the road this can be resolved. It's not like you can't have your own circuit working in conjunction with other third-party circuits. Nintendo believes having full control is preferable to being more profitable though.

Nintendo seems to appreciate and understand the benefits of when other companies are friendly with them (like Microsoft and Ubisoft for example) but can't seem to comprehend why they should equally show the same attitude in return.

Sony and Nintendo need to seriously get over their bull****. It really always sucks seeing such equally lame fans from Nintendo's side of things so eager to defend any and all decisions they make like their personal sense of self-worth is intrinsically tied a brand loyalty.

 

[Geno Boost]

i am curious about
is his name actually Erdrick or Arusu or Loto/Roto?
he is mostly recognized as Erdrick outside japan
so whats his actual official name between these 3?
same goes with is his official name Luminary or Eleven?
we can all agree on names being Eight and Solo but the other 2 seems a bit more complicated
personally i prefer calling Erdrick and Luminary its seems more fitting i do remember we all here used to call them by these 2 names

 

[Laniv]

i am curious about
is his name actually Erdrick or Arusu or Loto/Roto?
he is mostly recognized as Erdrick outside japan
so whats his actual official name between these 3?
same goes with is his official name Luminary or Eleven?
we can all agree on names being Eight and Solo but the other 2 seems a bit more complicated
personally i prefer calling Erdrick and Luminary its seems more fitting i do remember we all here used to call them by these 2 names

It's worth noting that Erdrick is technically a title bestowed upon at the end of the game. Furthermore, in Japan, the character is given the title of Loto/Roto in the equivalent scene, so Erdrick and Loto are basically the same thing, like Jigglypuff and Purin. That said, is a pick-your-name protagonist like the other Heroes, and is often referred to as Arusu in promotional material for Dragon Quest III, but he is commonly referred to as Erdrick (overseas) or Roto (in Japan).

is a bit different. Luminary is his title for much of Dragon Quest XI, but is often referred as Eleven for simplicity's sake.

 

[DarthEnderX]

i am curious about
is his name actually Erdrick or Arusu or Loto/Roto?

Erdrick(NA)/Loto(Japan) is more of a title than a name.

All DQ Heroes "official" names are "whatever you named them". Anything else is either an in-game title(Erdrick/Luminary), or just a company nickname.

 

[Diddy Kong]

i am curious about
is his name actually Erdrick or Arusu or Loto/Roto?
he is mostly recognized as Erdrick outside japan
so whats his actual official name between these 3?
same goes with is his official name Luminary or Eleven?
we can all agree on names being Eight and Solo but the other 2 seems a bit more complicated
personally i prefer calling Erdrick and Luminary its seems more fitting i do remember we all here used to call them by these 2 names

Erdrick is indeed, more or less a title..it's how the Hero came to be known. Dragon Quest XI definitely named him this at some point in the story. Speaking of XI, the Hero there is definitely called the Luminary, as in his title, but it's not his name.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Well Gen 9 confirmed I guess. Cinderace is officially a never-ever.

 

[toonito]

Well Gen 9 confirmed I guess. Cinderace is officially a never-ever.

one of these final evolutions might be in Smash 6

hmmm

being superficial and super wrong it won't be the grass starter because it has four legs lmao

 

[TCT~Phantom]

one of these final evolutions might be in Smash 6

hmmm

being superficial and super wrong it won't be the grass starter because it has four legs lmao

First forms don’t mean much tbh.

 

[toonito]

View attachment 346221

First forms don’t mean much tbh.

then grass cat for smash 6 it is

 

[chocolatejr9]

one of these final evolutions might be in Smash 6

hmmm

being superficial and super wrong it won't be the grass starter because it has four legs lmao

Please be the seagull, he has a cute little hat and everything.

 

[Geno Boost]

I would be disappointed if the next Pokémon rep in smash 6 is just another starter

 

[Trevenant]

Idk whether we'd be on footing to receive a gen 9 mon... After Greninja and all that being mons that were finalized before their time, I'm pretty sure gen 10 is gonna be the one receiving the token slot... It's definitely baseless to make any assumptions other than that, but with the whole 3 year average that pokemon's been having recently, I assume the next gen starters would be prime to pick, at least having the same level of concept art/general info as someone like Greninja had, who obviously was conceptualized purely based on said concept art they had access to...

 

[Stratos]

Maybe in Super Smash Bros. 6 will they put and a Pokémon from the 8th generation as a newcomer? If they are thinking of doing it, then I would say Cinderace is the perfect candidate.

 

[Trevenant]

Maybe in Super Smash Bros. 6 will they put and a Pokémon from the 8th generation as a newcomer? If they are thinking of doing it, then I would say Cinderace is the perfect candidate.

No, definitely not at this point... Being even one gen old is enough to rule them out, but it's brought into like - territories when they'll likely be 2 gens old at that point, with a more recent older gen in what would presumably be gen 9, and the new gen which is obviously the one they typically prioritize... You could also throw into that the remake(s) that'll likely release alongside the respective gen(s) which they're probably more likely to wanna plug which aren't even particularly likely to get a character in smash themself(ves), then yeah, this definitely attests to how unlikely gen 8 is at this point...

There's like 2 gens that'd be more recent (9 and likely 10), with the newest of them being the one they'd like 95% wanna go for, remake(s) which are ridiculously unlikely in their own right which are likely also gonna release within these timespans, but at the very least would be more relevant, gen 1 which is not really likely but is the older gen they'd definitely go back to if they wanted to revisit one without any game tie-in, and I guess you could throw in the chance of let's go johto or potentially hoenn (why not I guess) games too...

Only chance gen 8 has is if they wanna include it as it was a missed the ship type thing, but that doesn't even particularly count... So with that being said, gen 8 is likelier than only like... gen 7 lmao which isn't saying much as there isn't much Alola can bring to the table in regards to new characters anyway especially as it's already got Incineroar and it wasn't without it's fair share of criticism as it started this whole easy game mentality that people hated but is definitely not the least likely... It's not into ridiculous minuses like Alola in regards to chances... but it's definitely like a -90%... and the remakes are like a -60... Gen 9-10 is like 40:60 atm IMO...

I definitely put way too much effort into this, but I guess it shows how much stuff would have changed by the time the next smash game launches I guess... If it's this much for one series, then when you account for stuff like Kirby, Dread outside of the arbitrary spirits etc then there's definitely a lot to pull from in regards to general content