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New to shiek. Jabs, Needles, and reverse aerials

Scervo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
8
So, I played melee casually as a kid, but lost my disc many many years ago and only just got into trying to learn the competitive side of the game in the last week or so. I'm maining sheik right now, and I have been doing a lot of research to try to answer most things on my own but there are a few basic questions I have that hopefully someone can help with.

1.) How do I implement jabs? I've read that sheik has one of the best jabs in the game, but I'm not really sure how to implement it other than jab resets because, being new-ish to competitive melee, my understanding of the neutral game is a bit lacking sometimes.

2.) I know that needles are often used to set up grabs, but for some reason i've been struggling with this, it seems like every time I needle someone they are able to move away before I can follow up. What angles/distances should I be needling from to set up grabs? Can I do it while approaching or should I be using it as a defensive option when they come at me?

3.) When should I needle someone off stage? Sometimes it feels like I'm just helping them

4.) I know reverse nairs is something I see a lot of sheiks use and I use it myself sometimes, but I don't really understand when/why to use a reverse nair instead of a forward nair, other than just out of convenience because I'm already facing the opposite direction. Is there a specific use or advantage to doing it? As well as reversing any of the other aerials?

Thanks! Sorry if these are basic or trivial, gotta start somewhere :)
 
Last edited:

Pauer

The Pauerful
Moderator
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
592
Location
Linz, Austria
1.) How do I implement jabs? I've read that sheik has one of the best jabs in the game, but I'm not really sure how to implement it other than jab resets because, being new-ish to competitive melee, my understanding of the neutral game is a bit lacking sometimes.
Starting from about 100% jabs can lead into a lot of KO options. At that percent you will always combo into nair or fair against floaties like Peach, Jiggs and Marth(not really considered a floaty though, perhaps semi-floaty). In that sense jabs can act like an f-tilt or d-tilt for high percents.
I know upair can connect as well but I'm not experienced in that regard because I'm from Europe.
Not sure whether you know but in the PAL or European version of the game, sheik's upair is not a KO move, its strongest hit is about as strong as NTSC(America&Japan)'s weakest hit. More on the version differences here.

One way you will try and hit these jabs is by using run-canceled jabs. This thread shows the inputs for that nicely. The last game on FD of this set between m2k and PPMD shows some great uses of jabs.

At around 100% jabs will also start to knock down spacies. This can be quite useful because they only fly for a very short time until they hit the ground, giving them little time to react and tech which leads (particularly newer) players to frequently miss that tech which makes jab -> walk up down-smash an attractive combo.

On a more general note, jabs are great for interruptions.
A lot of the times if an aerial of yours could be shieldgrabbed, an immediate jab will beat out that grab because it comes out at frame 2. You can compare that to fox's shine! Only that the jab itself can be shieldgrabbed as well if the opponent waits for it. Fortunately, you can do a second jab which will hit if your opponent tries to grab after the first jab. If your opponent waits until the second jab, you can already have dashed away after the first jab or after the aerial to avoid the grab.
That way you have a little rock-paper-scissor situation, a mindgame. The mindgame isn't quite in your favor since getting a grab for your opponent is most likely better than you getting a jab but many other characters might simply get grabbed or would have to spot-dodge/roll to avoid the grab in the same situation.

The same principle is true for when an enemy avoids an aerial and charges in for a grab or with a dash attack. Other attacks might be too slow but a jab may just stop the enemy's attack in place.

You should however be careful because jabs can be crouch-canceled into shine and rest quite easily.
 

Seal

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
300
Location
Chicago
3.) When should I needle someone off stage? Sometimes it feels like I'm just helping them

Throw the needles before they use their up special. If you hit them after they use it, you're just letting them use it again and get more distance. It's best to hit them during their double jump or any time before their up special move.
 

LovinMitts

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
438
Location
Greenville, SC
2.) I know that needles are often used to set up grabs, but for some reason i've been struggling with this, it seems like every time I needle someone they are able to move away before I can follow up. What angles/distances should I be needling from to set up grabs? Can I do it while approaching or should I be using it as a defensive option when they come at me?
So you're gonna want to use aerial needles to set up for grabs, as grounded needles have a ton of endlag and aerial needles have no landing lag at all. They also allow to be close to your opponent since you'll land right in front of them after throwing your needles. Since they're likely in stun from needles if you space it right and land in front of them, go in and grab.
 
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