new to fox

[im2emo4myshrt]

i have been messing around with fox for a little over two weeks now. I have the basics down shffling waveshines shine spike etc but im not that great at applying them affectively. My biggest problem comes when playing marth. i just keep getting ***** by shield grabs. I dk what im doing wrong. If i short hop drill l cancle to a shine and he shields the drill shoulndt my shine come out before his grab? If not what should i do if he shileds my drill. Or if he shield a a nuetral do i shine or side step. any help is appreciated.

 

[_X_]

If you make the fact that you're going to SHFFL NAIR of course the other person's going to counter. Try and dash dance, fake the an 'empty' SHFFL (just a SHFF not pressing any attack buttons) and grab.

Be creative and don't for get to laser!

 

[Oskurito]

You're not supposed to play agressive against marth unless you're very technical. Against marth laser camp works a lot, or just shl/shdl and make him come to you then you've got to look for the shield grab... when you have him then upthrow>uair.. that ***** marth so badly. A combo that works exellent against marth is Dair>waveshine>run then grab>upthrow>uair, if you don't catch him with "run>grab" is because you didn't do it enough fast(waveshine) but he'll likely shield after the waveshine so you'll likely grab him anyways... With marth be defensive and always look for the grab

 

[RaynEX]

To answer your question:

Shines beat shield grabs everytime. It comes out in 1 frame, grabs don't. If Marth (or any other opponent) tries to shield grab you after an aerial in an attempt to beat your shine, and succeeds...you are doing it too slow.

The problem with attacking a shield is that the initial hit into the shield lags your speed, you have to be extra careful not to miss an l-cancel. Just watch Fox's feet and when he touches the ground. The lag from the shield might make it difficult to FF, but if you want to beat the grab and waveshine to anything...you're going to have to work at it. Its not too hard, its just something you need to get used to.

 

[robyextreme]

One of the few things you can practice on your own is getting used to aerial -> shine againts CPU's because they have hitstun and hitlag and you can get the timing right practicing on CPU's.

Just keep practicing nairs and dairs into shines on opponents once you understand this you can go from there.

 

[RaynEX]

Its completely different when doing it into a shield though. The move, as your falling, actually becomes slower.

 

[Goldkirby]

Easiest way to l-cancel the drill kick imo is just watch fox's feet and press the button right before you see his feet touch the ground.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

i find nairs easier to l cancel than dairs but it might just be me =D

 

[RaynEX]

does no body else notice that he's talking about getting ***** by SHIELD grabs, and not just missed lcancels into their bodies?

I'm sure theres someone who knows about the differences of hitting a shield vs. a body...more than i do.

 

[im2emo4myshrt]

im pretty decent with the l-cancel it just seems the marth will grab me even before i hit the ground. like theoretically if marth times his l cancel perfectly could he beat my l cancled dair shine.

 

[RaynEX]

like theoretically if marth times his l cancel perfectly could he beat my l cancled dair shine.

I didn't understand that question. Maybe explain it a bit better?

The drill+shine should, if performed correctly, be faster than his shield grab. (If the drill is blocked)

 

[Oskurito]

I'm sure theres someone who knows about the differences of hitting a shield vs. a body...more than i do.

Scotu... LOL

Dash dance>grab or lasers should solve the problem because you're not supposed to play agressive against a marth!

 

[RaynEX]

I play aggresive against the top Marths in my area. Those who don't know how to handle pressue get owned up the butt. Its ridiculous how easy it is to out-class even a pro Marth in close quarters. Nairs link to more nairs then utilts, you can mix in waveshines.

If you move in and out smoothly, without being an aggresive purist, even that may work for you. No strategy is past Fox, almost anything can work with him when utilized intelligently.

 

[Oskurito]

LOL that doesn't work for starters, and I combo 0-death marth usually one per match

 

[RaynEX]

it doesn't work? Of course you can nair combo Marth.

What would you do, for example, to 0 to death Marth? Does it involve shine-spiking?

 

[$hYne]

If think your problem is the different timing with and without shield hitlag .
Try practising in training mode with starman . This maybe will help you a bit .

Another thing is to try nair instead of dair cuz the difference w/ and w/o
shield hitlag isn´t so big like with dair

 

[RaynEX]

oskurito. tell of of this 0 to death w/o shine-spiking business.

 

[Oskurito]

it doesn't work? Of course you can nair combo Marth.

What would you do, for example, to 0 to death Marth? Does it involve shine-spiking?

lol watch this at 1:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_OVBY7-Zic

 

[RaynEX]

i called it before i saw it.

Nice turn around on the last one though. smexy.

 

[Falken]

Sorry for bringing this thread up again, but didn't want to create a new one.

My question is do I have to fastfall to be able to l-cancel to shine before he sheild grabs me?

Well for an example if u hit the top of the sheild or maybe even but out the attack and land on the sheild it seems they can almost grab you in the air. Then I mean Nair and Bair.

 

[RaynEX]

you don't have to FF the drill because it hits all the while its out, then you lcancel and shine and it beats the grab. I think you have to FF the nair and bair though.

 

[Button Smash]

Shine always beats shield grab.

 

[RaynEX]

Not if you don't FF certain aerials correctly.