New Player Needing Help

[KDPSmash]

Hi, im a new Smash 4 player looking to get some help. I played smash 64 and melee extensively (including being able to do all tech consistently and playing on a decently competitive level). Now ive moved on to smash for wii u and I can not perform well for the life of me. I am currently 28 and 187 in For Glory 1 on 1 (only way ill ever play smash 4, because theres no local scene whatsoever and ill never travel for tournaments) and im looking for help on how to get better.

Now i know this isn't exactly what is happening, but what im feeling right now and what it feels like playing is every hit i do on enemy shields leaves me extremely open to counterattack, and anytime my shield gets hit nothing i can do out of shield to reduce pressure. Anytime i launch somebody upwards i cant ever get another hit on them because they airdodge into the ground, yet when im launched i get juggled forever. Anytime i get somebody off stage they recover perfectly, and anytime i get to the ledge i cant get up again without getting hit off. Every move i do has years of lag, nothing the enemy does has any down time at all. Now that is obviously very false but i cant figure out how to improve in any of those aspects.

Also I cant figure out what character to main, in melee i liked sheik and Falco the most because i liked fast rushdown strats, but in smash 4 i cant seem to get a single move to combo in training move aside from some really basic ones like 4-5 marior Uairs, or luigi dthrow into 2x fair, so im having trouble getting shiek/zss and the likes to work for me, any advice here also?

 

[KirbCider]

One thing you need to remember is each Smash game has played a little differently, so it takes time to get used to it. Plus there has been various character changes since the previous games as well so some don't play out like they used to.

It'll take time to adjust for sure and you shouldn't feel bad for not playing a character very well in this version of Smash.

In Brawl Mr. Game & Watch was my best, go to character that I always kicked serious tail with; however now if I go into For Glory with him I tend to get my own tail handed to me. There's also some characters I'm good with suddenly when I never was with them in the earlier versions such as King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Pit, etc to name a few off the top of my head.

I can't stress enough that some don't play like they used to.

It just sounds like you need to practice and adjust for a little bit. Don't try to rush it or get too focused on improving immediately or you'll end up becoming frustrated or even disappointing yourself. Remember to just have fun and that no one becomes a pro over night. Just experiment and goof around with some of the characters. Go into For Fun and just play around. You may be surprised on what character actually sticks to you this time around, plus it will help you get used to how this version of Smash works.

 

[ixos]

First of all, welcome to Smashboards and the Smash 4 community.

I don't really have much advice for you (even though I got this game on launch day), but I can help a little. Most of all, like what KirbCider said, remember all the Smash games play differently. Go into training mode, and try any character that looks interesting. Try to watch tournament videos (that has helped me a bit) of the characters you want to play just to see how pros play them/good strats with them. I'm assuming you already know how to do mindgames at least somewhat, as you've stated that you can play on a decently competitive level in Melee and 64. Mindgames are still a VERY important part of this game. From my experiences in For Glory, a lot of players use predictable strategies. It might take some time to learn the chaacters and their seperate strategies, but it'll be worth it.

As for the problem picking your main part, you should probably have 2-3 characters you are exceptional at, and then maybe 1 or 2 you can at least use proficiently. From what I know, Sheik and Falco are VERY different in this game than in the others. I'm a fan of rushdown chaacters mostly as well (look at my mains). Since you've mained Falco and Sheik, you will probably like ZSS (takes a bit of precision and some mindgames to use effectively), maybe Sheik in this game (Falco isn't as fun as he used to be IMO), Captain Falcon, Greninja (more of a hit and run character), and MAYBE Pit/Dark Pit. Like KirbCider said, you might be surprised who you might like in this game. Marth and Lucina are good IMO (no chaingrabs, so Marth isn't AS good). I would suggest looking into some of the DLC characters as well, as Roy can combo better and has a more aggressive type of playstyle.

I'm sure you will find someone you enjoy playing and are great at, but like KirbCider also said, nobody is going to be a pro overnight and it definitely will take some time to get settled in and pick a main.

 

[KDPSmash]

@ ixos
So far im having no problems predicting what people are going to do/ trying to punish their attempt to do the same combo for the 5th time, i just dont know what to actually punish with. Right now the only punish i ever really get away with is just a jab combo with maybe a follow up aerial. Coming from melee this game feels like im stuck in molasses so i cant get the grasp of baiting and punishing for the life of me.
So far character wise, i have liked Shiek and Zss, but for some reason i cant get things to combo with them at all, like zss dthrow into upair seems to be easy/BnB for her, but my opponent always manages to jump/airdodge out and such, so ive been avoiding those two because no matter how much time i put into training mode practicing it they just get away everytime. Other than those two i seem to like rosalina, lucina (only because i am bad at tippering), and ike. But i still have trouble with all these people landing punishes and overall just doing well. I guess so far i just am expecting this game to function like melee and it isnt working out for me very well. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[ixos]

@ ixos
So far im having no problems predicting what people are going to do/ trying to punish their attempt to do the same combo for the 5th time, i just dont know what to actually punish with. Right now the only punish i ever really get away with is just a jab combo with maybe a follow up aerial. Coming from melee this game feels like im stuck in molasses so i cant get the grasp of baiting and punishing for the life of me.
So far character wise, i have liked Shiek and Zss, but for some reason i cant get things to combo with them at all, like zss dthrow into upair seems to be easy/BnB for her, but my opponent always manages to jump/airdodge out and such, so ive been avoiding those two because no matter how much time i put into training mode practicing it they just get away everytime. Other than those two i seem to like rosalina, lucina (only because i am bad at tippering), and ike. But i still have trouble with all these people landing punishes and overall just doing well. I guess so far i just am expecting this game to function like melee and it isnt working out for me very well. Thanks for the advice though.

This game IS a bit slower than Melee (not NEAR as slow as Brawl, thank goodness). Most people are used to ZSS combos like the dthrow-up b/up air, so they either DI or airdodge out of it. You can try to condition them to do one thing (for example, get them to dodge the dthrow upair by soing it a few times), and when they land on the ground from air dodging, try to punish them. I have little experience with Sheil and ZSS, but I might be able to give some pointers on mostly Lucina, maybe a little with Ike, and a little with Rosalina. I used to main or sub those three characters, and Marth and Roy are two of my mains now, so I could really give some pointers with Lucina if you want a few.

Are there any characters in particular that you are having trouble punishing or combos that you're having trouble avoiding or punishing? I might be able to give you advice, as I play For Glory a lot and watch a lot of tournaments.

 

[BDOME200021]

I can help you my NNID is squadxjohn200021
My snapchat is Johnmaynard2
And my Instagram and Twitter is johnmaynard28

 

[KDPSmash]

@ ixos any tips with Lucina ike and rRosa wouldbe greatly appreciated

 

[KDPSmash]

Other things i've noticed i struggle with is i can never get on stage from the ledge, it seems no matter how i swing it somebody just sitting there charging a smash attack on the edge hits me, and if i wait it out then try and get up, by the time the get up lag is over i get another smash right into my face. Literally cant figure out a single way to get up safelly. Second, is it just me or does airdodge seem to have 500 frames before it starts up, because i get caught in every single upair chain by ever person when i shouldnt be because i hit airdodge 3 games ago and i still haven't done it yet :| . Lastly is there anyway to be able to attack out of shield/attack somebodies shield safely? Like for example sometimes even like lucina fair with its huge range gives me so much lag on shield+ landing they can unshield run up and grab me and punish the **** out of me. I dont understand what im doing wrong in any of these situations if anybody can help with these thing specifically.

 

[ixos]

Well, I'll probably only have obvious tips for most of them, but here it goes:

Lucina-

-Shield Breaker is good for horizontal recovery and punishing. Can also be used for edgeguarding off of a read.
-Even though Lucina doesn't have a tipper, it's still a good idea to hit with the tip of her blade. This allows better spacing, and i THINK (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I probably am) I heard somewhere that her frame data for attacks might be a couple frames slower than Marth's? If you hit with the tip with Lucina a lot, then if you decide to transition to Marth later down the road it'll be a bit easier.
-Dtilt is good for edgeguarding. If their invincibility frames are gone, it's a good way to get them back off the ledge for them to either regrab it or have to get back to the stage, and you can punish them.
-Personally, with Marth I like to approach with short hop Nair and Fair, because they come out fairly quickly and are good enough for spacing.
-Mix up your recovery the best you can. Dancing Blade makes you go a little bit higher in the air on the first strike, but it's risky because of the timing to make it not go into the subsequent strikes (I don't use it much personally). What I do sometimes is use Shield Breaker to get right next to the stage, not grabbing the ledge, and doing Up B if they're close, so it's harder to punish.

Ike-

-Eruption is great for edgeguarding.
-Dthrow to Up B is a good combo at low % against some characters.
-You have a good short hop aerial game. I've been killed so many times by Ikes who do short hop aerials.
-Bair is hard to hit, but it's a VERY powerful kill move. Dair has a good meteor effect, just make sure to not SD from it.
-Bthrow to dash attack seems to be a good combo at low %.
-His Up B recovery gets predictable and gets interrupted by counters such as Marth's. Don't get too predictable with it.
-His smash attacks come out very slow, so don't use them too often. He is a bit of a punish character, so use them to punish rolls or recoveries, or just flat out read them.
-Jab combo is good for punishing rolls.
-Shield grabbing is good, and it can chain into a few combos.
-Instead of attacking someone's shield, you're better off grabbing.
Remember, Ike has good range and has good power. Don't mindlessly spam his attacks because they have good power, but read and punish often.

I can't really offer any tips for Rosaline, because I haven't played her enough to know anything and I dropped her almost exactly when I started to sub her.

Ledge safety and options vary between characters, who is the one edgeguarding, and what move they are edgeguarding with.
Airdodging gets predictable after doing it a lot, so don't spam it and try to get the timing right.
Out of shield options and attacking shields safely are completely dependent on the characters you're using. Grabbing is a nice way of "attacking" someone's shield, and Lucina's Shield Breaker is a good tool for breaking shields. Just don't spam anything too much, and don't get predictable.

 

[KDPSmash]

Thanks for the advice, but ive decided to sell my Wii U and go back to melee, just lost 3 games in a row to a lucas who only used his fire thing, his ice thing, and his back throw. Literally nothing i tried could get me through that bull****, so im obviously trash who will never ever be remotely good in this game and him taunting over and over in between each kill just made me realize playing this **** just makes me mad and im not having fun, sorry for wasting your time, thanks for the help youve offered.

 

[Nexin]

You mentioned that you are good at Melee, so I think I know what your biggest issue right now is. It seems like you have forgotten what it feels like to not be that good at a fighting game. I'm completely serious, and I'm not trying to be a jerk.

The reason I say that is because I recently tried playing King of Fighters 13 with one of my friends and got mauled. I felt the same way as you did afterwards because not only was I used to doing well in this game, but I kept messing up the special inputs in that game even though I can do them consistently with Ryu in this game.

While the differences between Melee and Smash4 are smaller than those of Smash4 and KOF13, the point I'm trying to make is that they are still different games that require a different set of skills to play effectively.

I don't think you should give up so easily. What is happening is completely normal, and once you get past the first stage you'll improve a lot more easily.

If you want any specific advice on what you could do better, I'd recommend posting on the NNID thread and looking for an opponent there. The players there are much better than on For Glory and they can give you advice on what they feel you need to work on after your matches with them.

 

[ixos]

You don't need to quit yet. You just recently got the game. It would've been a good idea to just play single player and practice before going to online. For Gloty has a TON of people that don't know what they're doing and has a lot of lag. Heck, I suck at a lot of games but I still try to improve. I'm not even near the best at Smash. You aren't going to get to be the best in a few days,it takes a lot of practice. 64 and Melee are a LOT more complex than this game, so I'm surprised you've given up this early. Whenever I get frustrated with spammers in this game, I just take a break and go watch TV or something. Don't expect to be ZeRo level of good in less than two months at least. Like Nexin said, Smashboards players can actually tell you what to improve on and they won't spam. Spam is hard to counter sometimes anyway, so don't get too frustrated with it.