New Movement Technique?

[B0SHI]

Hello everybody!, so I have been wondering if anyone else has noticed a particular technique which I use to increase my movement speed and approach/retreat options. I have been trying to share this for a while but every time I do I either get fired on on my or my post is simply deleted.

The Technique has temporarily been named Short dashing, the reason why I choose this name is because successful completion of the technique leads to your character completing a shortened, speed up and interruptible dash and flicking the control stick to do so feels similar to flicking an x or y button quickly to short hop.

So what exactly am I talking about? Well we all know about the PP and the mechanics of which is to complete opposing dash inputs to cancel the animation in both directions, and Foxtrotting/ J dashing is when you complete multiple dashes chained into each other at the end of each dashing animation, essential this technique combines the too techniques into an effective movement strategy. I realized after being in the lab for a while that all characters in the game have a crouch animation that is utilize-able to cancel the dash animation as well, by flicking your stick diagonally down and in the direction you want to move in a couple frame window, the crouch animation will cancel the dash ending animation allowing you to proceed with another dash starting animation, without the need to wait for the current dash animation to end. In turn you are rewarded with a much faster acceleration to top speed and decreased deceleration with no ending lag.

Why is this important? it gives you an almost lagless means of movement, offensively and defensively. No laggy end animation between dashes means less time to be punished and more time to punish with dash attacks or sliding upsmashes. A perfect pivot can eliminate you turn around animation when you need to switch directions, making this technique effective for getting in and out without the risk or fear associated with an easy punish while approaching.

What are your thoughts? does anyone already use this technique in their primary gameplay style? I have adopted it into my play and it works miracles from my experience. Let me know please.

 

[AaronSMASH]

Hello everybody!, so I have been wondering if anyone else has noticed a particular technique which I use to increase my movement speed and approach/retreat options. I have been trying to share this for a while but every time I do I either get fired on on my or my post is simply deleted.

The Technique has temporarily been named Short dashing, the reason why I choose this name is because successful completion of the technique leads to your character completing a shortened, speed up and interruptible dash and flicking the control stick to do so feels similar to flicking an x or y button quickly to short hop.

So what exactly am I talking about? Well we all know about the PP and the mechanics of which is to complete opposing dash inputs to cancel the animation in both directions, and Foxtrotting/ J dashing is when you complete multiple dashes chained into each other at the end of each dashing animation, essential this technique combines the too techniques into an effective movement strategy. I realized after being in the lab for a while that all characters in the game have a crouch animation that is utilize-able to cancel the dash animation as well, by flicking your stick diagonally down and in the direction you want to move in a couple frame window, the crouch animation will cancel the dash ending animation allowing you to proceed with another dash starting animation, without the need to wait for the current dash animation to end. In turn you are rewarded with a much faster acceleration to top speed and decreased deceleration with no ending lag.

Why is this important? it gives you an almost lagless means of movement, offensively and defensively. No laggy end animation between dashes means less time to be punished and more time to punish with dash attacks or sliding upsmashes. A perfect pivot can eliminate you turn around animation when you need to switch directions, making this technique effective for getting in and out without the risk or fear associated with an easy punish while approaching.

What are your thoughts? does anyone already use this technique in their primary gameplay style? I have adopted it into my play and it works miracles from my experience. Let me know please.

Uhh.. make a video? Because I don't understand what you are trying to describe.

Additionally... there is a specific sticky thread for this in the competitive discussion. Which is probably why it's getting deleted. So make the video and post it there.

 

[B0SHI]

I will indeed try and make a video of what I am talking about, I don't have a video capture device so it may just be recorded from a TV but I will work on getting an informative video together with more information and a visual demonstration of the technique ASAP. Alot of people have been questioning what I am talking about so this might be my best bet for getting the information reliably to you guys. Thanks

 

[Dark Phazon]

Video plz
Sorry but needs a vid.

 

[dahuterschuter]

Based on your description it sounds like Foxtrotting.

 

[Chiroz]

You do know dashes have varying distances. As in you can dash a short distance or a long distance depending on if you tap or smash the stick. This isn't a tech or anything new, it's always been like this. Unless I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[B0SHI]

It's somewhat similar to foxtrotting for sure, but like everyone has mentioned without a video to visually show what I am talking about I could imagine it would be hard to discern what I am talking about. The major difference between this and Foxtrotting is you do not have to wait for the ending animation of your current dash to end to input another dash as the angle of the diagonal motion on the stick cancels it, it's pretty much akin to perfect pivoting but you are pivoting almost a quarter circle down diagonally towards crouch from dash, if you do it very quickly with a flick like motion you will notice that the crouch animation and dash ending animation cancel each other out and the result is a dash consisting of only the middle animation of the dash. Each character it seems has a different threshold angle to complete the technique and some characters like Samus cannot complete it whatsoever.

When it is completed successfully you will go into dash but barely go anywhere, almost staying in place but this distance can be changed depending on the angle of the flick. You can in fact move backwards with a forward dashing animation if you do this with a perfect pivot which has a similar look to moonwalking in Melee (Especially with Cpt. Falcon).

Characters that seem to have an easier time doing this include Yoshi, CPT. Falcon, Ganondorf, Roy, Marth and Lucina, Sonic, Pikachu, Mario and Luigi. Characters with quicker dash starting animations for the most part can do this quiet easily but certain characters like sheik and fox can only foxtrot as they're sliding animation is to interruptive to be cancelled by the quarter circle flick motion.

Essentially what this technique achieves is motion cancelled into things or things being done during the motion of your character. If done successfully the technique can be used for Approaching and Retreating forward Tilts (for retreating a Pivot is required in the retreating direction followed immediately by the A button or C stick direction), Grabs (The same motion but with Z button or grab button of your choice) and JCUS's (Done with X/Y and A with a Smash attack motion after the technique is input), as well as Stationary Dash Attacks.

I hope that can give some more information as to what I am talking about, It is hard to explain without a visual representation of what exactly is supposed to happen when this is done. I will state that it takes Perfect Pivot speed to complete all of the techniques described, a good way to see if you are able to do this is Dash dancing with your character. If you can successfully dash dance with your character, chances are you have fast enough motion with your left stick to complete this technique.

One more Note: When I say flicking the stick I mean really flicking it and releasing it, any motion of the stick received by the game coming back from the flick will cancel the technique, either turning you around or dropping you directly into the laggy end animation of the dash.

 

[Zionaze]

Tbh I tried this with some of my mains and the "cancelled" animation of the dash is only noticeable for some characters and others don't get much benefit.
Ex: diddy gets noticeable benefit while wario gets absolutely nothing from this

 

[B0SHI]

It does seem to benefit some characters alot more then others with some characters not being able to do it whatsoever and others having tremendously extended range of their attacks with successful completion. Roy is another good example of a character who gets tonnes of benefit out of it, while Samus and Sheik seem not to be able to do it whatsoever and even attempting it can lead to some pretty laggy results. I just discovered this while training so I am not exactly sure the maximum extent of it but the more I experiment, the more super awesome options I discover with certain characters.

Just to Add: I was trying Wario with the technique and it can be helpful, as soon as he goes into that angled dash animation flick again, really fast. I was able to complete back to back short dashes with him but it seem his threshold is a pretty tight angle in towards the crouch, more crouch then dash but still completing the dash input should lead to success with Wario.

 

[MOI-ARI]

I gotta look into this. But Ceo is on :0

 

[B0SHI]

I seriously want everyone to look into this and not sluff it off, it seems like it could be a super effective technique in competitive play leading to setups and strings no one could have ever imagined without it. Also if anyone is doubtful and would like a demonstration of the technique we could connect online so I could show you what I mean. If that seems of interest to you just PM me and ask and I will be happy to demonstrate as making a video for me without video capture is going to be a tedious process.

 

[Chiroz]

It's somewhat similar to foxtrotting for sure, but like everyone has mentioned without a video to visually show what I am talking about I could imagine it would be hard to discern what I am talking about. The major difference between this and Foxtrotting is you do not have to wait for the ending animation of your current dash to end to input another dash as the angle of the diagonal motion on the stick cancels it, it's pretty much akin to perfect pivoting but you are pivoting almost a quarter circle down diagonally towards crouch from dash, if you do it very quickly with a flick like motion you will notice that the crouch animation and dash ending animation cancel each other out and the result is a dash consisting of only the middle animation of the dash. Each character it seems has a different threshold angle to complete the technique and some characters like Samus cannot complete it whatsoever.

When it is completed successfully you will go into dash but barely go anywhere, almost staying in place but this distance can be changed depending on the angle of the flick. You can in fact move backwards with a forward dashing animation if you do this with a perfect pivot which has a similar look to moonwalking in Melee (Especially with Cpt. Falcon).

Characters that seem to have an easier time doing this include Yoshi, CPT. Falcon, Ganondorf, Roy, Marth and Lucina, Sonic, Pikachu, Mario and Luigi. Characters with quicker dash starting animations for the most part can do this quiet easily but certain characters like sheik and fox can only foxtrot as they're sliding animation is to interruptive to be cancelled by the quarter circle flick motion.

Essentially what this technique achieves is motion cancelled into things or things being done during the motion of your character. If done successfully the technique can be used for Approaching and Retreating forward Tilts (for retreating a Pivot is required in the retreating direction followed immediately by the A button or C stick direction), Grabs (The same motion but with Z button or grab button of your choice) and JCUS's (Done with X/Y and A with a Smash attack motion after the technique is input), as well as Stationary Dash Attacks.

I hope that can give some more information as to what I am talking about, It is hard to explain without a visual representation of what exactly is supposed to happen when this is done. I will state that it takes Perfect Pivot speed to complete all of the techniques described, a good way to see if you are able to do this is Dash dancing with your character. If you can successfully dash dance with your character, chances are you have fast enough motion with your left stick to complete this technique.

One more Note: When I say flicking the stick I mean really flicking it and releasing it, any motion of the stick received by the game coming back from the flick will cancel the technique, either turning you around or dropping you directly into the laggy end animation of the dash.

Everything on your list of "uses" can already be done out of a regular dash and/or a run except for approaching F-Tilts.

Show me an example of you performing an approaching F-Tilt while dashing forward and then this might actually be something new instead of just Pivoting into a Dash which is what I am understanding from your descriptions. Also if that is the only use the technique has then it might not be as useful as you think it is.



I'd be happy to connect online so you can show me.

 

[Zionaze]

I get what you mean with wario but its not really useful as a movement option for wario since he barely goes anywhere. + he stays in the air most of the time so ground movement isn't as useful

 

[B0SHI]

Zykrex: Cool, I can show you online what I mean just give me a second to connect and add me Smash-Master69, I'd be happy to show you what I mean.

Zionaze: Its not just about the movement but the options you get with it, using that technique you can use the retreating and advancing Tilts, Grabs, Upsmashes and Stationary dash Attacks. Aside from the benefits of increased range on a number of attacks, it is quiet confusing to your opponent and serve's the same purpose as dash dancing to cause a Mix up.

 

[B0SHI]

THIS JUST IN: Using the A and B together option for Smash Attacks I have just learned (Or atleast with roy) That using this technique you can do Sliding F smashes, retreating and Approaching.

I would also like to clarify that when I say Approaching I mean a reversed Retreating so the motion is towards and not away from your opponent, it will still hit your opponent but you will be facing in the opposite direction in which you started.

 

[Chiroz]

THIS JUST IN: Using the A and B together option for Smash Attacks I have just learned (Or atleast with roy) That using this technique you can do Sliding F smashes, retreating and Approaching.

I would also like to clarify that when I say Approaching I mean a reversed Retreating so the motion is towards and not away from your opponent, it will still hit your opponent but you will be facing in the opposite direction in which you started.

So what's the difference between this and a pivot->dash?

This seems to me to be just what you get when you fail to input a perfect pivot which is a Dash in place (otherwise known as Pivot Dash).



I had to step out of my home for like 30 mins. I'll add you when I am back, but just a heads up all the options you listed are available from a regular dash too.

 

[B0SHI]

No problem on the adding thing, let me know when you are available and I will be happy to show you what I mean.

In regards to the Pivot dash thing, it's like a pivot dash and infact goes great with Pivot Dashing ( the Moonwalk like motion I described earlier is done by Pivot and then Diagonal dash in the opposite direction you want to go with the moonwalking motion)
But it is distinctly different, you do not need to go back and forth like a pivot only a 45 degree quarter circle like motion in one direction, continuously inputting a string of these will look like someone started Foxtrotting in a direction but it is distinguishably faster, and has less time to move into a pivot option then a foxtrot as you do not need to compensate for end lag and slide. Using Pivot you can change direction with Pivot dashes, speeding up your time between changing directions from a slide and turn animation to just the middle of the dash animation. If done correctly you can actually move faster like this then foxtrot because there is no lag between dashes and no slide end lag if you pivot out, allowing you to input more movements then the foxtrot and giving you faster options out of the dash animation like dash attacks that stay in place which lead to good setups.

 

[Chiroz]

Alright, I am adding you as I type this

 

[B0SHI]

Cool, I'm logging in after I accept the request.

 

[B0SHI]

I'll make a room, my Mii's name is Hyde

 

[Chiroz]

No problem on the adding thing, let me know when you are available and I will be happy to show you what I mean.

In regards to the Pivot dash thing, it's like a pivot dash and infact goes great with Pivot Dashing ( the Moonwalk like motion I described earlier is done by Pivot and then Diagonal dash in the opposite direction you want to go with the moonwalking motion)
But it is distinctly different, you do not need to go back and forth like a pivot only a 45 degree quarter circle like motion in one direction, continuously inputting a string of these will look like someone started Foxtrotting in a direction but it is distinguishably faster, and has less time to move into a pivot option then a foxtrot as you do not need to compensate for end lag and slide. Using Pivot you can change direction with Pivot dashes, speeding up your time between changing directions from a slide and turn animation to just the middle of the dash animation. If done correctly you can actually move faster like this then foxtrot because there is no lag between dashes and no slide end lag if you pivot out, allowing you to input more movements then the foxtrot and giving you faster options out of the dash animation like dash attacks that stay in place which lead to good setups.

As I said, what it seems to me is that you are cancelling a Dash into another Dash which is called Fox Trotting. I was able to imitate everything you did by just Fox Trotting, or is there anything I missed?

 

[B0SHI]

That's interesting you were able to pretty much do everything that I was doing pretty consistently, but it seems like maybe roy has a faster fox trot because its more evident with yoshi as his fox trot has ending lag but your able to not lag if you do them consistently fast, I'm not sure really but that was a good game lol

 

[Chiroz]

That's interesting you were able to pretty much do everything that I was doing pretty consistently, but it seems like maybe roy has a faster fox trot because its more evident with yoshi as his fox trot has ending lag but your able to not lag if you do them consistently fast, I'm not sure really but that was a good game lol

I'll pick Yoshi now and Fox Trot with him.

 

[Chiroz]

The thing about cancelling your dash is that every char has a different "minimum dash" and dashing time. I honestly don't know Yoshi's timing for his minimum dash so I cannot do the "minimum" length Fox Trot with him. But I am assuming it will look just like what you're doing with him.

 

[B0SHI]

That makes sense, then the input that I am doing could be just a more efficient means of achieving the minimum dash cancel available to that character, that would make sense for why it doesn't work with some of the cast as well

 

[Chiroz]

That makes sense, then the input that I am doing could be just a more efficient means of achieving the minimum dash cancel available to that character, that would make sense for why it doesn't work with some of the cast as well

Yes it is probably another input that can be done to perform a minimum dash fox trot.



I'll explain myself better.

See Runs have a skid animation, which is what you're calling lag (rightfully so, because it is lag) but Dashes themselves don't go into skid, only runs do. Dashes have a minimum and maximum length and can be cancelled into other dashes (plus anything that a run can do, IE: Grabs, Jumps, Dash Attack, U-Tilt and U-Smash) at any moment in between it's minimum and maximum length.

If you try to cancel your dash into another dash after you're already in the run animation you'll get a skid, which lags. If you try to input a dash before the minimum length then it will buffer the dash and will perform it after you're in run which also results in a skid (lag). If you perform the dash in between minimum and maximum length of the dash, after the initial dash frames but before it goes into run then you get a cancel.

Chars like Roy/Falcon/Marth are extremely easy to do this while other chars it's really hard to do. Some chars have very small minimum distances, while others have huge max dash distances (and some like Marth have both!). All of this though is just Fox Trotting though.

It is useful for spacing games but it's still just cancelling dash into dash repeatedly. I myself use Fox Trotting a lot with Roy, specially to do Dance Trots which I am trying to use a lot more in my game.



GGs man.

 

[B0SHI]

That definitely makes sense, so basically it's just chaining the minimum extent of dashes together which gives the appearance of shorter, faster foxtrots. Also good games it was alot of fun.

 

[Chiroz]

That definitely makes sense, so basically it's just chaining the minimum extent of dashes together which gives the appearance of shorter, faster foxtrots. Also good games it was alot of fun.

Yea, technically you are inputting the shortest, fastest Fox Trot for your character. Your input might be easier, or it might be harder, I don't know because I can't seem to get it to work. But then again it took me a while to learn to Fox Trot correctly the way I do it.

It's still a good option and people might be interested to learn it. I myself won't since I already know how to do it with my mains .



Sorry for quitting all of a sudden, I am watching CEO.

 

[B0SHI]

NP dude, we'll definitely have to play again. I'm going to watch now too lol.

 

[Roukiske]

After attempting this I couldn't replicate anything that sounded like this. Although while playing with Falcon, I noticed you can make your running skid (dash right then hold left to skid) end faster if you keep holding the opposite direction. If you let go at a certain point you can perform an action such as jab much quicker than normal. If you let go near the last few moments of the skid before you initiate a dash the other way, you will slide and slide further if its even later (people used to do it by doing a skid and holding shield during the skid to see how far you would slide). With Falcon he slides pretty far and can basically sliding jab, possibly any other non-smash attack move.

Thought I would throw this out there. I think people call it SKID IASA frames? It's interesting with Falcon as it semi acts as a wave dash backwards that isn't a perfect pivot which is harder to do. I would love to make a video but I'm rather lazy, although I do have streaming equipment and the like if anyone would like to discuss this.

 

[B0SHI]

I noticed the sliding jab with CPT. Falcon as well when I was trying pivot dashes and released the control stick while trying a sliding tilt, as a result I slide forward while continuing my jab animation. Although it is pretty cool it is really hard to do and I myself haven't adapted it yet into my falcon play.

As for the Dash cancelling short dashing or whatever we want to call it, it seems it could be just the minimum possible dash cancelled into another dash the same as foxtrot just a shorter, faster version of it. If this is the case then each of the characters would have a different range of possible inputs to complete it which is what I found a different angle for each character could achieve. At this point after witnessing another player complete a similar technique with roy I am not sure if it makes any improvement with that character but the improvements are obvious with Yoshi.

For capt., try flicking really hard and really fast then releasing and doing it again in an angled motion, it seems I am able to get atleast 2 or 3 extra dashes in on the main platform of battlefield, from 3 to 5 or 6, which is almost double the amount of inputs which for me personally is an advantage as it gives me more chances to act out of it with either tilts, smashes or SH aerials.

EDIT: So regardless of whatever exactly it is that I have been doing, I did it with megaman and I actually was able to dash past robins projectiles by continuously using his shortened dash with the diagonal input. This means that shorter characters or ones with a short dash height like Roy can use it as a method of dodging attacks as well as movement.