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New fox player, need help getting better and please critique

airstrikee

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3
I've been practicing fox for about 2 months now, and I would say that I am still a novice. I am still trying to master tech skill and I have yet to learn many fundamentals of melee that I have not yet discovered.

Here is a set between me and kage the warrior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAio27h786A

I obviously got bodied but if you have time please critique my gameplay and provide constructive criticism. I remember there were many moments where I had no idea what to do when I was getting pressured by him, and I know that my punish game wasn't great.

Criticism on my gameplay, tips for punish game, or identifying any of my mistakes would be great. This is my first match recorded and due to my beginner knowledge of the game I'm not too sure on how I can critique myself and identify mistakes so that I could learn from them, and knowing how to consistently improve.

Thank you for your time
 

2 +

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
41
Location
Victoria
I'm a noob myself but some advice.
You don't have to approach. You seemed to try to go in for the hit almost every time it reset to neutral, rather than bait out your opponent or apply laser pressure to get a reaction. Fox has good movement and good OoS play, and ganon is slow and easy to react to. You should try to make ganon do something unsafe.

Also when you go in mixup with grab more, you definitely used shfl'd nair a lot which you can get punished for if you don't do the nair super late. Full hop nair is even worse.

Kage is a great player, you'll probably learn more by playing people not so far ahead of you.
 
Last edited:

fratstar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
4
Just watched the first game, but you're ground game needs a lot of work. It's very predictable. Instead of nair shining every oppurtunity, mix in running shines + running in and shielding + DD grabs. Also, use your dd to bait out moves more often
 

airstrikee

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3
I'm a noob myself but some advice.
You don't have to approach. You seemed to try to go in for the hit almost every time it reset to neutral, rather than bait out your opponent or apply laser pressure to get a reaction. Fox has good movement and good OoS play, and ganon is slow and easy to react to. You should try to make ganon do something unsafe.

Also when you go in mixup with grab more, you definitely used shfl'd nair a lot which you can get punished for if you don't do the nair super late. Full hop nair is even worse.

Kage is a great player, you'll probably learn more by playing people not so far ahead of you.
What do you mean by making ganon do something unsafe?
 

2 +

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
41
Location
Victoria
What do you mean by making ganon do something unsafe?
Ganondorf doesn't have too many approach options himself. Use fakouts (like dash in waveland back) to try to make your opponent react in a way you can respond to. If he puts up shield when you dash in you can try and grab him, if he moves back take more of the stage. If he plays campy and doesn't try to ever come in shoot your gun. If he does come in move out of the way or shield and use your superior OoS options.

I hope you know that you should never use standing laser, short hop laser(s) is much better.
 
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tsm2k420XX

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
35
Location
DFW
You definitely need to be more smooth with your hits, and when you grab, don't just up throw and do nothing, but instead maybe backthrow to try to set up an edgeguard. Your ground game is just approach sh nair, mix in running shines, dash dances, and bait him into using aerials and over extending, which allows you to hit with a plethora of combo starters. For example, when I play ganondorf, I use lasers to make him approach, and when he's almost in range to use a quick move like a side b, I turn around and use bair to zone, and oos options are huge. If they overextend and miss because their spacing was off, and they're in lag, try wavedash up tilt, or an option that puts them in the air, so you can either start a combo, or gain stage control. Just work on your movement, and try more defensive options like lasering and using your shield more, because shields are a great defensive, and offensive option.
 

1000g2g3g4g800999

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
368
Location
Earth
From what I'm watching, this seems more like a nervous player, or one with nervous habits than one who doesn't know what they're doing. In any case, here goes nothing (I think the stuff after this box is enough for you to extrapolate from):
When your opponent jumps, their motion is much less malleable. When Ganon jumps towards you, he can only go so far. If you feel comfortable and that you have enough room, you should try to dash back out of the range of fair, and come back in right after he lands. If you aren't comfortable and don't feel you have enough room, you can try going through him with a roll (make sure he isn't dairing, and is actually throwing out fair), you can shield and buffer a roll backwards when it hits or when he lands (c-stick away from ganon while holding shield, but seeing your multi-spotdodges you probably already knew that), or you can go to the ledge if you're in a corner (I'm not sure how comfortable you are on the ledge, so maybe don't go for that option.

Pay attention to your opponent's animations, you don't have to hold block or do ANY defensive action while they're in lag.

Pay attention to position. You should be able to recognize where the opponent can jump, wavedash, roll or otherwise travel to in a single motion. You obviously can for your own character seeing as you approached from the furthest possible distance with a jump rather consistently. How you approach, if you're going to, should be decided at a closer range, and you should be watching them as you've begun to execute your option to map out what happens if you hit, or what to do to prevent what they seem to be doing to avoid your hit from yielding a punish or other advantage for them. If a jump in looks like it will miss with an aerial, waveland to displace yourself from punishing hitboxes, or where the opponent can most easily reach.

Watch what happens when you actually hit, and right before it so you don't waveshine through someone's shield and upsmash the wrong way.

When recovering, you used Fire Fox too far to sweetspot in the startup, and too close to Ganon to not get hit. Be conscious of where the opponent is and what they're doing while recovering.

Upsmash can outright beat Ganon out of a jump, but be careful if he's fairing. It's better not to trade.

Like, I could see you dashdance sometimes and hit Kage as he ran in, and hit him as he was rising during a jump, both of which are very real, but you weren't consistent about these kinds of things.

If you stay very close to Ganon, you can punish him when he jumps, and block when he starts a tilt (in the case of the incredibly slow but powerful utilt, it's better not to block and just get out of the way). Beware of rising upair. You can otherwise move out of the way when he jumps with anything and dash back in after an aerial's gone. Beware of emptyhops into waveland ftilt jab or grab.

Ganon and Falcon are both fairly bad at dealing with bairs spaced against them once you've gotten in on them, as well as nairing through (without crouch cancel).



Also, running towards your opponent, while it might not necessarily make them do something, tends to look like you're attacking them. You can run in shield to deal with pre-emptive attacks to stop you from coming in, dash back or wavedash back for similar purposes, run up shine or jab to deal with the opponent dashing back (the jab is horrible vs CC however), among other things. Movement is not just about being in a certain spot, but that is important (and again, you should less antsy at further distances than the ones you're approaching from, fighting from closer, and more comfortable in general at all these positions). All your actions moving on the ground create some kind of threat. The faster you can act or hit them, or cover an area with a hitbox, the more threatening.

Many throws in the game are weight dependent, including all of Fox's. So remember that when trying to act after throwing Ganon, there will be more delay. This means you won't be able to get all of the same followups, or they may become harder. Uthrow uair, for instance won't work until much higher percentages.

To deal with pressure, move out of the way before it can start, and take the option hardest to cover (usually the one that displaces you the most in the least laggy way, i.e. wd back or roll away, time either as they dash away from you if they're dash dancing, or do either after a laggier option hits shield, all pretty context dependent), or interrupt it and retaliate when most vulnerable, or the opponent is least ready. The latter option may mean you have to get closer to the one pressuring to minimize time it takes to hit, or potential to miss.

But yeah... Basically don't run into hitboxes, watch animations and positions, be cognizant of where the opponent can travel to at any time (as well as yourself). Interrupt start up, punish endlag. Don't be afraid to block, but don't hold shield when nothing's threatening you. Space closer or go in slower, or change up timing to avoid whiffing next to the opponent, and don't put yourself closer into the opponent's position (or travel through it) with a laggy option unless it will hit, or they're in lag.

Practice execution and try to get more comfortable with the opponent being close to you. And far away from you. It doesn't look like you are for either.
 

ocows72

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
1
If you want to improve the state of your bank account, don't money match with Kage
 

BASEBASSFORTE

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4
Location
Mexico, Aguascalientes
You definitely need to be more smooth with your hits, and when you grab, don't just up throw and do nothing, but instead maybe backthrow to try to set up an edgeguard. Your ground game is just approach sh nair, mix in running shines, dash dances, and bait him into using aerials and over extending, which allows you to hit with a plethora of combo starters. For example, when I play ganondorf, I use lasers to make him approach, and when he's almost in range to use a quick move like a side b, I turn around and use bair to zone, and oos options are huge. If they overextend and miss because their spacing was off, and they're in lag, try wavedash up tilt, or an option that puts them in the air, so you can either start a combo, or gain stage control. Just work on your movement, and try more defensive options like lasering and using your shield more, because shields are a great defensive, and offensive option.
by far the best tutoring ive heard. read. check out my videos on youtube at "Basebassforte@yahoo.com" im good at tech but like peaple have told me before tech anint noting if your neutral sucks problem for their reaction is im way better this year.
 

BASEBASSFORTE

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4
Location
Mexico, Aguascalientes
I've been practicing fox for about 2 months now, and I would say that I am still a novice. I am still trying to master tech skill and I have yet to learn many fundamentals of melee that I have not yet discovered.

Here is a set between me and kage the warrior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAio27h786A

I obviously got bodied but if you have time please critique my gameplay and provide constructive criticism. I remember there were many moments where I had no idea what to do when I was getting pressured by him, and I know that my punish game wasn't great.

Criticism on my gameplay, tips for punish game, or identifying any of my mistakes would be great. This is my first match recorded and due to my beginner knowledge of the game I'm not too sure on how I can critique myself and identify mistakes so that I could learn from them, and knowing how to consistently improve.

Thank you for your time
hey im currently watching your video my name's BASE i dual main Fox and Ganondorf and i can tell you this.... your verry good BUT.... yea... you remind me of myself aout a year ago... i though i was good cus i kneew tech skill and stuff but in the end nutral is key, i am studing myself thx for the video im learing everyday it never stops i play 12 hours a day from time to time and when i do play everyday all week its like 8-12 hours a day and ive learned things that are verry uncommun im going to make tutorials of the things ive learned cus i know things probly not even top players know... i have videos on youtube but dont show all thees thing si know cus ive learned them recently but if you got time check out my vids on youtube at "Basebassforte" @yahoo on youtube. well i subbed to the video thx!
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
Okay so first off, this is one of the least helpful matches you could analyse as most of it is you getting comboed or drastically out played on so many levels that it's not really worth getting into. We've all been there playing really good players, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But when analyzing matches, you usually want to spend the most time examining matches with players somewhere near your skill level. I'm aware you might not have any other recorded matches. This is just for future reference. The second reason this match is not that great to analyse is because it is against ganondorf who you will rarely play. THAT SAID.

My brother was a ganondorf main for several years so I know the basics.

When recovering you are using your double jump preemptively too much. This is something Kage catches onto immediately. When he downthrows you at low percent to set up a tech chase, and then downsmashes, that covers everything except rolling away the direction you DI ed. You need to shoot more laser and use the platforms more to get around ganon. His up air is scary but can be avoided. He isn't fast vertically. You need to dash dance more specifically for whiff punishing. Kage whiffed a lot of moves against you, just throwing stuff out, but you didn't punish because you weren't mentally prepared for the whiff. You were playing too on edge.

Good luck and everything!
 

tsmfoxmaster

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
127
Slippi.gg
FGOD#520
Kage is really good i respect you money matching him! But what helped me get good was watching top level foxes vs Ganon. Leffen is really good at the matchup and Ryan Ford.
 
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