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New "FFA" Style/Idea

aaronmhite

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
16
A little introduction first: I'm a good friend of Zack (Tech_EDGE/James Franco here). I've only been playing for roughly three months, but I'm already high C/low B tier thanks to having the the ability to learn from an S tier player every time I play. I know more than I show, because I have a hard time with the kb. lol I'm just putting that out there, so you guys don't have to explain TOO much to me in the future. I'd say I probably I've at least high B tier knowledge of the game. lol

I also got to play malva today on his stream for quite a few games (after Franco).

I have played most of you under random names, too. lolol

Just didn't want you guys to be like, "Wait, who is this..?" Sorry for all that!

The rules:

[Always Hyrule]

First match:
-P1 fights P3
-P2 sits on the top platform
-Whichever player takes a stock first stays in, and P2 rotates in to fight said player.
-Loser sits on top platform until the next player takes a stock. He rotates in when that happens.
-Rinse and Repeat

Match two+:
-Winner sits out first round.

Video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOcrrfutXJQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

:phone:

:phone:
 

aaronmhite

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
16
Oh, and I guess I'll just deem it Rotation Battling for easier identification. I really enjoy these and want to be able to say "rotation battle" in the galaxy chat and not have to explain the rules when people join. lol

:phone:
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
um.... how will I put this................

How is this actually FFA at all? I mean sure..... you have more then one person.... and it says FFA in the corner while you pick characters...... but come on......

there isn't a single moment of free-4-all fighting in the whole match. Its just dueling in order, and it secures a kill you worked for..... unless you die, then it becomes a rigged match where damage is already put on because of cyclical dueling instead of just dueling each of you separately. There is no tempo to these fights, just a rule set that keeps 3 people engaged in a rigged duel system instead of waiting for the next match.

If you want to make it have a purpose, and some sort of clear winner, make it a time match or something, not stock. A time match would make the first kill the tempo, and then the winner of the last round would jump in, giving him a slightly easier kill, but even tempo for the 3 fighters. (given that the 2nd person to jump in was the one who lost the first life/was the first kill). Without some sort of means to derive a victory outside of lives, your rule set is meaningless.

I guess my biggest problem I have with the whole thing is that the fighters would never start on an equal footing as the next challenger, given that the new life will always be 0%, while the person who just one may have some sort of battle damage. Given this common outcome, I would more willingly play a FFA with no rules, over a match that breaks down into 2 bleeding duels. The only situations where a 0% duel would take place would be in a situation where one player completely outclasses the other, or their kill was easy-pieze from the start..... either way... not an appealing sense of moral would come from these fights...... just a different way to train, cuz in a serious match, this training would actually hurt your intensity over time from all the breaks you take.

Now honestly..... did this system come from someone complaining too much about 2vs1 in FFAs yet not accepting the privilege of being so strong it takes 2 people to take them down, and then complain about the actually matching being thrown because of it?
 

aaronmhite

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
16
There's a reason FFA is in quotes in the title. In the video's description I said it's just for fun and in no way intended for competitive use due to the obvious and numerous bias.

:phone:
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
The better you play, the less damage you take (on average) anyway. I think it's perfectly fine. When you enter a stock after being killed, you're on 0% and they're on whatever anyway. It's basically a winner-stays-on scenario, making it harder to keep winning (and therefore straight wins means more).
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
@tech:
Percent is part of the game.... while you probably have some sort of Petter Pan philosophy that says its not too important (cuz "don get hit ever" kk ^.^), its a stat, and eventually it is the force behind your death, deal with that fact. Also, stale moves affect the game, which means your moves will do 1-2% less damage over time (make em fressh again, just w/e kk ^.^), while you have to fight up against multiple fresh lives. Sorry for being realistic, while you're on Never-Never-Land. How do I unlock that stage again?

Just keep insulting me before you argue with me, that way you sound more legitimate. In my book, this system is as fair as a real FFA, but there are rules in place to make the guy winning from the start, most likely win at the end. That's not very exciting, not very clutch in my book at all.
 

thegreginator

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
372
I think a better way to play with 3 people is rotating out 1v1s like you describe but a rotation occurs every game instead of every stock. Carry over remaining stocks like a 12 character battle and just count up the number of points (wins) you get.

I played this with Darth Rancorous and skamastaG and it was sweet.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
They're emphasising how this isn't a tourney/super-serious/actual competitive thing.

It's a way to have 3 people engaged in a game at once so nobody is particularly bored and no team-up bs happens.
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
"So as you can see, the player who sits out in the beginning (theoretically if everything remains consistent) actually gets the advantage, not the person winning from the start. That's why we put in place the rule that the person who wins gets to sit out first next round."

Yes, like I said Before...... the player who is winning from the start (the supposed stronger player... cuz he was 1st last match) is winning at the end. How is my statement wrong? My argument is that a game should make consistent winning harder (a edge to the weaker player), but in your game you force the weaker two parties to fight from the start. Sure, if all the players were at even skill, the winning would most likely continue to win for the next 5-6 rounds with the life advantage/damage advantage they get to jump into. A huge upset is possible in smash, oh course, by why make a huge upset the only possibility to change the order? Getting 1st is the only way to get the edge, 2nd and 3rd start on equal ground.......... while the winner waits.... to start winning again. "oh darn, I won last game, my prize is that I get to start by killing someone who's already at 100% for fighting 3rd place. Ho Hum."

I'm saying that this barrier (3 lives of opponents -2 fresh, 1 polish off kill-) forces the turn order to continue with no purpose. And that the Match up chart does produce a accurate picture for duels, but not group play, so keep match ups out of true FFAs.

If this system of FFA was actually fair in any way, it would be a timed match, not a stock count. On time, it counts kills to lives (so the edge is given to the players who start fighting for the first kill), in stock its survival..... in ordered fights. Why am I wrong here? Please, try to explain why this is fair in the slightest why my original suggestions were wrong?

Dude, anyone that comes to da Bay Area normally plays me. I've played battlecow when he was out on the coast with ballin. Dawg, stop thinking the only big fish are online, I got an aim, but f@k kbs+ssb, can't throw down your sticks, or take rips with the person your playing with.


Listen, this is a side statement, correct me if I am wrong. The only reason why people generally don't think regular FFA is fair (in friendly matches), is because of combos being interrupted, and people ganging up on the strong. I personally think people get too butt hurt about ganging up, and should take a 2vs1 match as an honor, not a loss. If a player can be so strong, it requires the concentration and teamwork of 2 or more people, they win the moral victory, don't belittle it by complaining in the end, it was the fight that mattered. FFAs give the possibility of everything, including 2vs1/3vs1 matches. Without that being possible, its not an FFA..... its just not. I am, prepared for any sort of crazy house rules that people play with, items, handycap, w/e, give me the challenge. Without that kind of spirit, what can you actually learn?
.......... but sense
....... no one actually can play a real FFA apparently
.... Lets get back to the point
.. the system presented
I think that with all of the damage carried over between each duel.... why not just separate it back into 2 duels to show an accurate rating of the games across? Where you actually can compare yourself to the people you were fighting.... instead of just take a turn at a time... with 1 life..... Why not circular dueling with time on infinite? Or just 1 stock duels? the system should be questioned, the purpose of the system should be questioned. Stop insulting me for asking questions, you were just being hella defensive en ****e kk. And I will nvr learn to read or spell in this giant ocean of emoticons and shorthand. Peace Dawg? or do we gotta fight this out for like another 6 pages?
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
2,759
Location
Australia
They're emphasising how this isn't a tourney/super-serious/actual competitive thing.

It's a way to have 3 people engaged in a game at once so nobody is particularly bored and no team-up bs happens.
This.

Seriously, people forget that SSB is for fun way too often.

Fairness is not necessarily a requirement for fun.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
8,740
Location
Chicago
Sounds fun, think I'll do it next time I'm on console with 2 other people for friendlies.
 

malva00

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
3,864
Location
54th and 5th
OLD

NYC ssbm players used to do this on corneria

it's called the GAUNTLET (doesn't have to be caps that's just me >__>)
 
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