never main olimar alone

[anas abou]

there might be another thread talking about the same thing but i don't frankly care

maining olimar with no secondaries is a death wish he has such bad matchup against some characters its laughable i honestly cannot see olimar beating 75 percent of the roster.

although he can beat the slower bigger and heavier characters he cannot stand projectile or fast characters.

he has too little kill moves that are too high in risk too little in reward so all that damage he racks is useless.

on a brighter side his recovery is the best in the game if all pikmin are thrown and i honestly think he is the best character when it comes to double battles i am not even joking with his damage racking all you got to do is hook him up with a fast nimble character with good knockback (little mac-fox-captain falcon-sonic-bowser jr) and i think you got a beast of a team.

 

[WarioWaft]

You are extremely mistaken.

IMO Olimar against fast characters does fine if anything those he can neutralize them pretty well. With fast characters, you use their speed against them especially their aggression. People like to rush with Sheik, Fox, Falcon that's fine. A purple pikmin well timed before they do their dash or grab will set them back and re-think that strategy. And you have the advantage of throwing Pikmin far across the map especially white and red to eat up damage. When they start attacking the air to get the Pikmin off that's when you go for your move. Even if they charge at you, that's 3-5% they just took from just one Pikmin (possibly 10-15% if two) eating them up.

And because Olimar's smash attacks come so much faster and some have longer range, you can play up close. A lot of my kills are literally RIGHT in my face. Either they're coming from the air right next to my shoulder, or they're running or rolling right next to me. His d-smash covers everything right next to you including rollers, and f-smash is great if you know how to arrange your Pikmin.

Purple Pikmin are key because they're what can change your opponents strategy. If I throw a yellow Pikmin at a charging opponent he can still hit me. If I throw a purple, he gets knocked back PLUS I can throw a Pikmin on their body on the ground to start racking up some %. If someone is edge guarding and are not paying attention, a purple Pikmin pushes them back allowing you to get back safely and pick more Pikmin out of the ground.

 

[anas abou]

You are extremely mistaken.

IMO Olimar against fast characters does fine if anything those he can neutralize them pretty well. With fast characters, you use their speed against them especially their aggression. People like to rush with Sheik, Fox, Falcon that's fine. A purple pikmin well timed before they do their dash or grab will set them back and re-think that strategy. And you have the advantage of throwing Pikmin far across the map especially white and red to eat up damage. When they start attacking the air to get the Pikmin off that's when you go for your move. Even if they charge at you, that's 3-5% they just took from just one Pikmin (possibly 10-15% if two) eating them up.

And because Olimar's smash attacks come so much faster and some have longer range, you can play up close. A lot of my kills are literally RIGHT in my face. Either they're coming from the air right next to my shoulder, or they're running or rolling right next to me. His d-smash covers everything right next to you including rollers, and f-smash is great if you know how to arrange your Pikmin.

Purple Pikmin are key because they're what can change your opponents strategy. If I throw a yellow Pikmin at a charging opponent he can still hit me. If I throw a purple, he gets knocked back PLUS I can throw a Pikmin on their body on the ground to start racking up some %. If someone is edge guarding and are not paying attention, a purple Pikmin pushes them back allowing you to get back safely and pick more Pikmin out of the ground.

managing pikmin is so frustrating i usually end up throwing them randomly especialy against progectile characters (duck hunt dog-megaman-link)

and also what do you think about maining olimar alone and his doubles battle potential

 

[FlipFlopMist]

managing pikmin is so frustrating i usually end up throwing them randomly especialy against progectile characters (duck hunt dog-megaman-link)

and also what do you think about maining olimar alone and his doubles battle potential

Quite frankly you should main more than one character in this game just because how good the whole cast is.... However, while Olimar has some tough matchup's, he's not completely destroyed/countered by one single character or has an almost impossible match up(Little Mac vs Mario or Pikachu, Captain F vs Kirby[over exaggerations but still])... You just need to play smart, he's a character that I believe you CAN solo main... Which most of the characters you can, not that it'll be easy but...

 

[JamesDNaux]

Out of all of my mains, Olimar is the only one I consistently do very well with. He's the sort of character you either just can't use properly or you fall into his playstyle perfectly. Even with the changes from Brawl, he still feels just as good as ever to me, better than ever even. While I don't personally care for tiers, I honestly think that people are jumping the gun on the whole "nerfed" situation. With Meta Knight knocked down and the Ice Climbers axed, Diddy Kong is the only thing in front of Olimar.


I'm also a firm believer of never giving up. If you think Olimar is doomed in any particular matchup, figure out a way to win.

There is always a way to win.

 

[Angbad]

Lol. Not at all.

 

[anas abou]

Lol. Not at all.

explain

 

[anas abou]

Quite frankly you should main more than one character in this game just because how good the whole cast is.... However, while Olimar has some tough matchup's, he's not completely destroyed/countered by one single character or has an almost impossible match up(Little Mac vs Mario or Pikachu, Captain F vs Kirby[over exaggerations but still])... You just need to play smart, he's a character that I believe you CAN solo main... Which most of the characters you can, not that it'll be easy but...

helpgul reply if only some people did the same

 

[Angbad]

Well first off what Match ups do you deem completely unwinnable?

 

[FlipFlopMist]

helpgul reply if only some people did the same

Usually the replies here are very good, yeah you'll get the small little side remark here and there, but most replies are not only meaty, but also in good spirit.

Olimar isn't a character most people can just pick up one day and destroy people with, he has a learning curve for sure, but he has options to him that work well against almost anyone on the cast...

Practicing with him can help fix your mindset about him not being able to be solo mained, although just playing as only one character really isn't something you should do... I don't find that fun and hence why I'm juggling multiple characters.

 

[anas abou]

Well first off what Match ups do you deem completely unwinnable?

projectile character (megaman-samus-ness-villager-link-pit)

 

[extremecoopster]

projectile character (megaman-samus-ness-villager-link-pit)

I agree on all these listed except Villager, Samus, and Ness.

Olimar does great against Villager because Villagers side-b is blockable. Villagers down-b is useless for walling out Olimars side-b. His b DOES pocket Pikmin, but it does not do much. We easily outcamp him and can use his own spacing against him.

Samus could probably beat Olimar easy, but the fact that if a Pikmin is on Samus her b won't come out and his super armor can prevent any projectile kill moves from taking effect put it in Olimars favor 60-40

Ness has elements, which Olimar loves, and despite Ness being projectile based he still can't camp effectively. They work more at mid range

None of the matchups I didn't dissagree with on are near-impossible, just slightly difficult. Please gather more info before stating an argument please. Pit isn't even projectile based, more well-rounded

 

[Kon]

I would say Olimar has some though matchups. I need some practice against Sheik, Pit, Yoshi, ZSS, Peach and Rosaluma.
Sheik has good spacing tools with the needles and the granate can kill Pikmin on their way back to Olimar if you forget once to whistle them back. Also I feel I don't want to be close to Sheik as I will probably get combo-ed like Side-Tilt + Fair or Down-Throw + Fair if I don't keep my distance.
Pit can easily and almost safely(as far as I saw) destroy Pikmin you throw at him with a short hop & fast fall nair. Also you have to be really careful with your smashes because if he catches one, you risk getting killed early.
Yoshi is really strong in the nair and can kill Pikmin easily with his nair. I guess pivot grabs and pivot fsmashes are the only good tools in this matchup and they work best if Yoshi's in the air. However Yoshi may then start to space with his eggs and then you can't throw that easily Pikmin on Yoshi anymore. Beside that, only purple Pikmin may help to keep Yoshi a bit away of you.
ZSS isn't that undoable, but make sure you don't stay in the air because you otherwise risk getting juggled with her upairs.
Peach is another MU where she is stronger in the air than Olimar. However Olimars fair is faster than Peachs fair. Therefore I sometimes throw out some fairs to get her on the ground. Also purples are great to get her on the ground too. The main issue is that it's difficult to get grabs against Peach. I always wait for Peach floating too long and then catching her landing.
Rosaluma can be hard, however if you hit Luma once with 1-2 smashes or side tilt, he will probably be gone. Without Luma, Rosalina is much easier. You can probably get some grabs and also throw Pikmin at her without too many risks.

Beside that, I hate playing against Sonic, however with Olimar you can pretty much outcamp Sonic. That's what I do if they try to play the patience-game.

And while Diddy is doable, it messes me always up that Pikmin bring back the banana on their way to Olimar and you trip on the banana.

I noticed the post got rather long and it's now more a "talking about Match-Ups" but this is my opinion so far. As said I guess I just need more practice and experience with these match-ups. I think it takes quite a while to play a good Olimar that can deal with all the characters. Therefore until I'm on the point where my Alph(sorry but I prefer Alph ) is on point, I'll keep Mario as a secondary for some match-ups.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Oi! Maining Olimar isn't a death-wish! If one were to really put effort into playing with him he can end up being pretty good. He's one of the least straightforward characters, which is why people consider him to be pathetic.

But nonetheless, no one should only have one main and/or no secondaries. It'd be a shame to only play/put effort into a single character.

 

[koken]

Oi! Maining Olimar isn't a death-wish! If one were to really put effort into playing with him he can end up being pretty good. He's one of the least straightforward characters, which is why people consider him to be pathetic.

But nonetheless, no one should only have one main and/or no secondaries. It'd be a shame to only play/put effort into a single character.

When you don't have enough time like me, it's the only possibility to be decent with a character .
I only main Olimar and sucks with everyone else xD.

 

[Freezie KO]

I'm sorta on the fence. I solo main Olimar, and I really enjoy following players that have a single main. Makes spectating more enjoyable. On the other hand, I also think it's ridiculous how characters like Mario or Peach can be so difficult to deal with sometimes.

Any other character with diagonal moves or decent aerials can deal with a low floating Peach better than Olimar while Mario can just spam cape, effectively shutting down half our moves and all of our smashes. Even when I beat cape/reflector abuse, I still feel like my opponent shouldn't get so much advantage from a move that takes no skill to just throw out endlessly, in the hopes that eventually they'll catch an f-smash and win the match from it.

 

[anas abou]

Samus could probably beat Olimar easy, but the fact that if a Pikmin is on Samus her b won't come out and his super armor can prevent any projectile kill moves from taking effect put it in Olimars favor 60-40

samus can up-b the **** out of pikmins

Olimar does great against Villager because Villagers side-b is blockable. Villagers down-b is useless for walling out Olimars side-b. His b DOES pocket Pikmin, but it does not do much. We easily outcamp him and can use his own spacing against him.

villager pocketing a pikmin is devastating while it doesn't give villager any really good tool it limits olimars options so much with only 2 pikmin

Ness has elements, which Olimar loves, and despite Ness being projectile based he still can't camp effectively. They work more at mid range

pk-fire downthrow fair (or up-b if you're cheeky) pk-fire backthrow GAME

 

[Blue Banana]

villager pocketing a pikmin is devastating while it doesn't give villager any really good tool it limits olimars options so much with only 2 pikmin

If I remember correctly, Olimar can pluck another Pikmin to replace the pocketed Pikmin because it's not in his possession anymore.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

samus can up the **** out of pikmins

I'm sorry. I don't entirely understand what you mean.

villager pocketing a pikmin is devastating while it doesn't give villager any really good tool it limits olimars options so much with only 2 pikmin

First off, Olimar isn't entierly helpless with only two pikmin, as he can still perform all of his smash attacks and aerials with no problem. Actually, once I was even able to do well with only one.
Secondly, as Blue Banana said, Olimar can pluck out another pikmin if a Villager pocketed one of his, and it takes less than a second to pluck out 3 pikmin.

pk-fire downthrow fair (or up-b if you're cheeky) pk-fire backthrow GAME

I'm pretty sure that this doesn't solely apply to Olimar.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Also, I swear, this thread is essentially saying: "Olimar is a bad character except in team battles, choose someone else."

 

[anas abou]

Also, I swear, this thread is essentially saying: "Olimar is a bad character except in team battles, choose someone else."

nah he is amazing in some matchups but you need secondaries if you're gonna main him

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

nah he is amazing in some matchups but you need secondaries if you're gonna main him

According to your original post, you can only see him having good match-ups against 25%, which, according to my calculations, is 12.75 characters out of 51.
But seriously, what's the problem with maining Olimar without secondaries? Some people only main Captain Falcon without secondaries, and you probably wouldn't tell them to "stop maining Captain Falcon alone". A select few people like Olimar and can be very effective with him. Just because you and/or the rest of the internet don't find him to be great (except in certain few cases) doesn't mean that you must warn everybody who happens to solely main Olimar to immeadiately stop doing so.

 

[anas abou]

According to your original post, you can only see him having good match-ups against 25%, which, according to my calculations, is 12.75 characters out of 51.
But seriously, what's the problem with maining Olimar without secondaries? Some people only main Captain Falcon without secondaries, and you probably wouldn't tell them to "stop maining Captain Falcon alone". A select few people like Olimar and can be very effective with him. Just because you and/or the rest of the internet don't find him to be great (except in certain few cases) doesn't mean that you must warn everybody who happens to solely main Olimar to immeadiately stop doing so.

i'm not saying that you have to do or to stop doing anything it's no an order or a threat of any sort its a little advice i'm spreading for people to get secondaries if they main this characters (it's not that strange even a metaknight main in brawl would be better of with more mains) as it follows a strictly different play style than any other character which doesn't always work and might not give the fullest experience (but then again i'm the asshole with too many mains)
i hope this clears some tension i'm trying my best not to be a total douche

 

[Freezie KO]

The more I play him, the more I think that Olimar is just an inherently flawed character. Sure, he's strong against Diddy, but he shouldn't be so shut down by reflectors. And for some reason, Sakurai decided that every character should have a reflector in this game. In theory, Olimar should have the projectile advantage, but characters like Mario can just override that by spamming a single move.

I got completely shut out by a Mewtwo who did almost nothing but spam forward air, shadow ball, and the reflector. I couldn't get in because the fair outranged me, and anything else was shut down by a reflector. There were literally no tactics to use. Grab range is too short. Throwing pikmin get immediately reflected or hit by shadow ball. And Olimar isn't fast enough to pull any great mixups, particularly because his dash attack is slow and laggy, making it way too punishable.

It's not just that so many characters have reflectors, but spamming them is just so brainless and easy in this game. And for Mario, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Falco, etc. all their reflectors can even cause damage as attacks, so there's no reason for those players to do much of anything else. Forget about Sheik, Olimar gets outcamped by mid-tiers with reflectors.

Once Olimar loses the ability to use any smash attack or projectile, his remaining options are too obvious. If Olimar is running, he's going to grab. If he's jumping, just shield the laggy fair that gives no shield stun and grab him. His only reliable option is to try to bait you to chase him and then pivot something.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

The more I play him, the more I think that Olimar is just an inherently flawed character. Sure, he's strong against Diddy, but he shouldn't be so shut down by reflectors. And for some reason, Sakurai decided that every character should have a reflector in this game. In theory, Olimar should have the projectile advantage, but characters like Mario can just override that by spamming a single move.

I got completely shut out by a Mewtwo who did almost nothing but spam forward air, shadow ball, and the reflector. I couldn't get in because the fair outranged me, and anything else was shut down by a reflector. There were literally no tactics to use. Grab range is too short. Throwing pikmin get immediately reflected or hit by shadow ball. And Olimar isn't fast enough to pull any great mixups, particularly because his dash attack is slow and laggy, making it way too punishable.

It's not just that so many characters have reflectors, but spamming them is just so brainless and easy in this game. And for Mario, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Falco, etc. all their reflectors can even cause damage as attacks, so there's no reason for those players to do much of anything else. Forget about Sheik, Olimar gets outcamped by mid-tiers with reflectors.

Once Olimar loses the ability to use any smash attack or projectile, his remaining options are too obvious. If Olimar is running, he's going to grab. If he's jumping, just shield the laggy fair that gives no shield stun and grab him. His only reliable option is to try to bait you to chase him and then pivot something.

His standard jab, down tilt, up tilt and aerials are other attacks that Olimar can use instead of projectiles.

 

[Freezie KO]

His standard jab, down tilt, up tilt and aerials are other attacks that Olimar can use instead of projectiles.

Sure, he has physical attacks, but they're not great options. Jab is a good move, but when getting walled out, it doesn't outrange anything. It can't even outrange a cape or Falco's reflector or Mewtwo's confusion move. And good luck rushing in to jab. Aerials are obvious and laggy and will get shield grabbed. His nair is honestly his best option for entry because it auto-cancels, but only if you cross them up.

I just don't think any character in the game has such a glaring disadvantage that half their options receive a certain classification (projectiles) that can be immediately cancelled by another class of moves (reflectors). It turns the game into a simple 50/50 Will They/Won't They guessing game if you choose to use Olimar's best options (f-smash, pikmin toss, u-smash). And if you don't use Olimar's best moves, he's severely gimped by the most rudimentary moves and tactics.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Sure, he has physical attacks, but they're not great options. Jab is a good move, but when getting walled out, it doesn't outrange anything. It can't even outrange a cape or Falco's reflector or Mewtwo's confusion move. And good luck rushing in to jab. Aerials are obvious and laggy and will get shield grabbed. His nair is honestly his best option for entry because it auto-cancels, but only if you cross them up.

I just don't think any character in the game has such a glaring disadvantage that half their options receive a certain classification (projectiles) that can be immediately cancelled by another class of moves (reflectors). It turns the game into a simple 50/50 Will They/Won't They guessing game if you choose to use Olimar's best options (f-smash, pikmin toss, u-smash). And if you don't use Olimar's best moves, he's severely gimped by the most rudimentary moves and tactics.

Patience is key when knowing when to throw out moves. If they reflect, retreat with down-b, or punish them while they worry about your stuff. Think if it like this. Olimar is a boss char, the pikmin his minions and the opponent the hero guy. You send a minion at him, he turns it against you. Te hero feels like he won, but forgot that he has to battle you also; with the minions against him.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Sure, he has physical attacks, but they're not great options. Jab is a good move, but when getting walled out, it doesn't outrange anything. It can't even outrange a cape or Falco's reflector or Mewtwo's confusion move. And good luck rushing in to jab. Aerials are obvious and laggy and will get shield grabbed. His nair is honestly his best option for entry because it auto-cancels, but only if you cross them up.

I just don't think any character in the game has such a glaring disadvantage that half their options receive a certain classification (projectiles) that can be immediately cancelled by another class of moves (reflectors). It turns the game into a simple 50/50 Will They/Won't They guessing game if you choose to use Olimar's best options (f-smash, pikmin toss, u-smash). And if you don't use Olimar's best moves, he's severely gimped by the most rudimentary moves and tactics.

Regarding "And good luck rushing in to jab", the answer is quite simple: dash attack. I forgot to mention that his dash attack comes in handy.

Also, taking a quick look at SmashWiki, I've discovered that only 14 characters (including Mii Gunners and taking custom specials into account) have reflectors in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS, so it's not like he's easily outmatched by the entire roster/his attacks aren't rendered useless by the majority of the roster. Plus, his down-tilt covers some distance and could also be used against characters with reflectors, which could be followed by some of his aerials.

 

[koken]

I would suggest you to practice the aerials with retreat. This is: approaching the necessary distance to hit your opponent but retreating before you land to the ground to distance yourself for a grab.

This will come handy with some characters only because their grab range isn't enough.

As soon as your enemy saw that you're going to stop using Smashes, he will stop spamming reflector and you will punish that decision. Once again he will try to reflect your attacks, so the goal is to convince him about something to change your behave after that.

Your main objective is to be unpredictable.

Keep up the training .

 

[Indexxical!]

i honestly cannot see olimar beating 75 percent of the roster.

While Olimar has trouble with rush down character types, Olimar is still a very strong character. I win at least 70% of my games, so I've gained some wins against every character, even my "counters".

he has too little kill moves that are too high in risk too little in reward so all that damage he racks is useless.

No way, Olimar has plenty of kill moves. Do you want me to name them all? He has a lot.

But I do agree on playing more than just Oli. When I see a decent Captain Falcon, I feel this need to bust out my Yoshi.

 

[de5picable]

I think that what we are forgetting is that Pikmin aren't just about tossing them at people and hoping that they hit a character. Trying to get pikmin off is really punishable, and you can follow up with a grab or other punish. Tthis is at least how I like to play Olimar as a spacey, punish when you make a mistake Olimar, insttead of a just throw some pikmin do whatever after. This certainly gives him some sort f advantage against people who don't know the matchup.
If one player takes the route of ignoring the pikmin, then, Hey! Free Damage! If they go the attack of the pikmin route, then follow ups are your friend.
I certainly understand where you are coming from, but I think that most people play Olimar in too much of a spammy character, when instead he is very versatile.

I definitely agree that it is difficult to solo Olimar in a competitive format, so I'd be curious as to what you think the best secondary would be to cover his matchups.

 

[anas abou]

No way, Olimar has plenty of kill moves. Do you want me to name them all? He has a lot.

yeah but they get enough end lag for even the slowest of characters to punish brutally

again i'm not saying he is terrible i'm saying his playstyle is very different and doesn't work in all matchups (i got rekt by this one pit on for glory while playing olimar) so its commendable to learn a secondary if you main him more so than some other characters (especially rush-down characters)

I'd be curious as to what you think the best secondary would be to cover his matchups.

mainly ness zss shiek yoshi and falcon

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

yeah but they get enough end lag for even the slowest of characters to punish brutally

I wouldn't say that the ending lag in his smash attacks are brutally punishable, as a matter of a fact they're over rather fast.

 

[Freezie KO]

I wouldn't say that the ending lag in his smash attacks are brutally punishable, as a matter of a fact they're over rather fast.

Double fsmash is one of his best tools.