Ness vs ZSS Match-up

[Uffe]

Okay, so I main Ness and I've had a few run ins with ZSS. I want you guys to help me out on a match-up list. :D I want your unbiased opinions on how well Ness does against ZSS. Now I know you have a topic here, but I couldn't find anything on Ness except that it said the match-up between Ness and ZSS are neutral. So here are things to look for:

1. How well does ZSS do on the ground?
2. How well does ZSS do in the air?
3. Does ZSS have any edge-game? If so, what are they?
4. How would you rate ZSS's recovery?
5. What stages are unfriendly for ZSS, that is to say, counter-pick stages?
6. As a ZSS player, how has your experience against Ness been?

 

[ph00tbag]

I can say for sure that ZSS is a force to be reckoned with both in the air and on the ground. In the air, she has a lot of range above her, and has a lot of options on airborne opponents, although she doesn't do well against opponents who are below her (PK Thunder would probably be useful). On the ground, she has her Plasma Whip and Paralyzer, and uses her dash attack to a lot of success. Of course, her Dsmash is amazing, and to be feared by all characters in the game.

She also has a surprisingly good edgeguard and recovery. She's got a slew of recovery options and workarounds, and can quickly turn a hasty edgeguard around with the right timing. She does really well when edgeguarding off the stage with Plasma Whip and Wire, and her dsmash ledge games are very good.

My guess as far as bad stages would probably be PS2, particularly on the transformations, very few of which are particularly beneficial to her. Jungle Japes and Distant Planet are just plain bad in general.

I don't have much experience against Nesses, though, so I can really only give general advice.

 

[Uffe]

Well just to let you know really quick, Ness' PSI Magnet can absorb ZSS' d-smash. Of course I'm not saying it will always work because the PSI Magnet is probably slower than ZSS d-smash. Anyway I've come across a pretty good ZSS. I'd say her u-smash is pretty dangerous for Ness if he's flying around. Perhaps he's just better off being grounded during matches with her. I'm not sure. I haven't been fighting any ZSS' lately, so I can't really recall what to expect from them. Anyway thanks for the input. I look forward for more info.

 

[Tezmata]

If I were Ness, I'd worry more about the Up+B than the USmash. The USmash is good but the Up+B is going to be better for comboing since it'll keep Ness grounded and ZSS is going to have a better ground game against Ness than aerial. As stated above, be aware that she has MANY recovery options and can turn the tables quickly on an opponent when off-stage. Again, be very wary of her Up+B when off-stage, as it can spike you.

ZSS strategies against Ness are going to be fairly predictable though since most Zamuses will avoid using DSmash or Neutral B too much. Keep an eye on her spacing, which is usually a good sign of what she's planning, keep her above you when aerial, and PSI Magnet when necessary.

Edit: Forgot to add that since Auto-Footstooling with the Flip Jump is becoming more well-known by Zamus mains, remember that she can either kick or footstool you with the move. It's not too hard to dodge, but keep an eye out anyway.

 

[ph00tbag]

Well just to let you know really quick, Ness' PSI Magnet can absorb ZSS' d-smash. Of course I'm not saying it will always work because the PSI Magnet is probably slower than ZSS d-smash. Anyway I've come across a pretty good ZSS. I'd say her u-smash is pretty dangerous for Ness if he's flying around. Perhaps he's just better off being grounded during matches with her. I'm not sure. I haven't been fighting any ZSS' lately, so I can't really recall what to expect from them. Anyway thanks for the input. I look forward for more info.

Some dsmashes can be absorbed if you can predict them. A lot of the time, though, ZSS mains like to use dsmash out of a tech-chase, which is harder to avoid.

I'd say that SH fair should be fairly safe against ZSS for Ness, but then I haven't seen that tested out in tourneys. You might know better than I.

 

[Uffe]

Some dsmashes can be absorbed if you can predict them. A lot of the time, though, ZSS mains like to use dsmash out of a tech-chase, which is harder to avoid.

I'd say that SH fair should be fairly safe against ZSS for Ness, but then I haven't seen that tested out in tourneys. You might know better than I.

I know that her d-smash comes out quick. I just thought I'd point out that it can be absorbed, though. C: Are there any ZSS mains that fought Ness before? O: More info would be great because I'd like to see what it comes out to.

Thanks for giving some info, ph00tbag!

 

[FadedImage]

I've said this in another thread, but my doubles partner is actually a Ness main, so I have tons of experience against him. In general, I would probably say the match is 55-45 Ness.

As far as ground game goes, I'd say Ness and ZSS are equal. They don't have great ground game, but they get the job done.

In the air, they're also about equal. ZSS has a great amount of vertical hitboxes to outdo Ness's god-dair. And both of their b-airs are great for killing. ZSS's aerials do a bit more damage, but Ness's have a lot more shield pressure.

Basically the match boils down to ZSS avoiding a situation where Ness has her shield on lockdown, since approaching with his f-air is more or less unpunishable (followed by jab/grab). So if she can space him well enough, She can take the match, otherwise she'll be stuck in her shield all game, and Ness will just keep racking up damage until he B-Throw KOs.

As far as edgeguarding goes, ZSS can really easily hog Ness, since she can drop down, tether the edge, and stop Ness from recovering from below the stage. He has two options, shoot for the edge and bounce off, or shoot for ZSS and hope she doesn't tech the stage.

 

[PKNintendo]

I've said this in another thread, but my doubles partner is actually a Ness main, so I have tons of experience against him. In general, I would probably say the match is 55-45 Ness.

As far as ground game goes, I'd say Ness and ZSS are equal. They don't have great ground game, but they get the job done.

In the air, they're also about equal. ZSS has a great amount of vertical hitboxes to outdo Ness's god-dair. And both of their b-airs are great for killing. ZSS's aerials do a bit more damage, but Ness's have a lot more shield pressure.

Basically the match boils down to ZSS avoiding a situation where Ness has her shield on lockdown, since approaching with his f-air is more or less unpunishable (followed by jab/grab). So if she can space him well enough, She can take the match, otherwise she'll be stuck in her shield all game, and Ness will just keep racking up damage until he B-Throw KOs.

As far as edgeguarding goes, ZSS can really easily hog Ness, since she can drop down, tether the edge, and stop Ness from recovering from below the stage. He has two options, shoot for the edge and bounce off, or shoot for ZSS and hope she doesn't tech the stage.

Can I quote you on that?

 

[FadedImage]

you just did? d: (yes go ahead)

 

[Keoki]

1. zss has decent ground game. she can space herself well, especially with >B. her tilts are all good and fast, and ftilt can trip at lower percents. watch out for her downsmash because it leads into her main KO moves (bair and >B) however i (think) it can be absorbed with nesses vB

2. zss has a good air game. her aerials are for the most part strong and can combo well (especially uair) watch out for her bair, it comes out fast and is strong.

3. zss has bair, fair, and 3 spikes to edgeguard with: dair, ^B, and vB. vB is her strongest spike, and i think ^b is her weakest. dair is a suicidal spike. she can also bair/fair you off the edge every time you try to come back so watch out for that. it is somewhat risky for her to edgegaurd though cuz if she messes up she could get edgehogged and end up being the one to lose a stock >_>

4. her recover is good, especially for a tether. she has vB, her second jump which goes higher if ^B is used right after, a walljump, another auto walljump out of vB, and >B/^B as a tether. her tether has good reach and she can use neutral B/ >B to knock edgehoggers off.

5. for bad stages, make a custom stage about the size of FD with ice blocks on the edges (tether lololol) but as for real stages, i dont really know, i guess just a stage with ungrabable edges like rainbow cruise.

6. never played a good ness so cant help you there

ok im done hope that helped somewhat