Ness vids

[BZZL]

Hello! I just posted a couple of videos of my Ness vs a friend's Doc in the video discussion area, and I thought I'd link them here as well. Any comments on the Ness would be appreciated.

(sorry the sound is a bit out of sync)

round 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M5oUI8OeG8
round 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8USZhxVhYSE
round 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQmABh-zlts

edit:
If you see Ness doing weird air dodges near the ground, that's just a botched WD. Still working on doing those 100% perfectly.

 

[HaPPyTheCoW]

i watched all three! i hope i am good enough to critique. (this is my first time). ill just do 3.

i think you use the dair a bit much, i was able to predict when you would use it when i began watching the first video.

i personally like down throwing with ness, it helps start a combo, i didnt see that many throws. there were some good opportunities to grab the doc when he was doing the shield.

i noticed you did a lot of full jump fairs, i dont know if they were intentional or you missed a short hop, but djcing when you are very near to the ground helps a lot in atks like fair or bair, it's faster.

i like the nair out of shields, i am working on those myself, haha.

 

[Airo]

=]

negative:
it feels like alot of your attacks are motivated by spontanous muscle reflexes.
looks like your just throwing random aerial attacks.
there could be more mindgame into your attacks.
could use more wavedashing.
didnt see ness any throw combos.

positive:
aside from those, you have decent spacing
good advance tecniques
good implementation of djc dairs

 

[Reik]

That is almost exactly how I played Ness when I first joined Smashboards. It's kinda creepy. xD

I can tell you are not yet comfortable with the advanced techniques. You also have some very predictable patterns. Learn to play Fox or Falco and then come back to Ness. Trust me on this. It will REALLY help.

 

[Earthbound360]

DjC more. A LOT more and shuffle a lot lot lot lot lot x100 less. DjC makes shuffling almost obsolete for Ness. All of those shuffles hurt my eyes.
Grab a lot more too. And when you land a grab, dont go for an fthrow unless you are right near the edge. At low %, go for a dthrow or uthrow combo. At high, go for a bthrow finisher.
Tech more
Use uair a lot more and fair, especially after PK Fire. You useddair nair and bair enough though.
Wavedash more
More mindgames wouldbe nice. Footcancel and dashdancing are my favs.
Bat less, and try to finish more with DjCed bairs. Please, no dsmash. I hate to break it to you, but Ness' dsmash is probably known as the worst dsmash in the game.
Use a PKT One Last Hit if you know you cannot make it back to the stage. That's when you just give up on hitting yourself, and hit your opponent one last time.

Okay Ness you've got. Yellow and Black FTW!

 

[BZZL]

Thanks for the comments! In response:

Happy:
Sounds like a fair crit to me. I'll say it straight up - you're right, I do use DJC Dair too much. It's true there weren't many throws in those matches... I'm gonna disagree with ya on the Down throw, though, especially against this particular opponent. He's just gotten very good at figuring out how to get away from me on any move that he can possibly wiggle out from. I also find the spacing on a D throw very difficult to work with, though a WD might help that I suppose...

Airo:
Yeah, I did spam quite a bit huh. ^^; I'm trying to work out my own little niche for mindgames. I'd like to get Ness's aerials to serve for that, though I know I need to work on other methods (like dashdancing) as well. As for throw combos - I'll have to look into those a bit more. I know I can't chaingrab anyone except a noob Fox or Falco (Ness just doesn't have much along those lines), but straight combos I can try and work with.

Reik:
Hmm... any specific reasons that it helps? I picked a floaty guy over a speed demon for several reasons... ^^;

360:
Hehe, those downsmashes were accidents. Still not sure what happened there, but don't worry about me usin' that a lot.
Uair is one of the hardest ones for me to land outside of very specific juggles. I'd like to learn how to DJCFFL it to use in lower % juggles with Utilt. Fair is normally my bread and butter, but spammage too much against someone who knows your play style is dooom
Speaking of DJC, I'll do my best to use it more in upcoming games. I'm still learning on that one, but just by watching the third round here I can see where it definately comes in handy. Finishing combos with a DJC Bair is also a new idea, but I like it! :D
My PKT is usually dead-on hitting the edge and catching, but HAUS knows me well enough to be able to cape it every time. If I ever get some tourney matches recorded (fat chance - someone recording a Ness game? ) I hope it'll show that a bit more.

 

[Reik]

Reik:
Hmm... any specific reasons that it helps? I picked a floaty guy over a speed demon for several reasons... ^^;

Ness is a speed demon, lol.

I recommended learning Fox or Falco (preferably both) so you can improve your:

1. Tech skill. Your timing and finger speed will improve drastically if you can master the space animals' tricks. Their combos require you to execute moves one after another as soon as possible or the combos won't work. You'll notice a lot more about the timing of each part of the SHFFL, too. I could never L-cancel Ness's F-air consistently until I could SHFFL D-air with Fox. xD

2. Ground game. Sorry, your ground game is non-existent. At low levels of play Ness can just fulljump aerial -> doublejump aerial all day and people will fall for it. Jumping all the time leaves you extremely vulnerable. Try fighting a decent Marth with Fox. In order to get past the range you'll need to learn how to combine dash dancing and wavedashing effectively to create openings.

I know I can't chaingrab anyone except a noob Fox or Falco (Ness just doesn't have much along those lines), but straight combos I can try and work with.

Ness has a guaranteed combo (well... you could probably get out with good Smash DI) on Fox, Falco, and CF from a grab at 0 into a B-air that ends around ~80%. You need to be able to do perfect DJC U-airs and quickly follow DI on reaction, though.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Even if you aren't good technically, I still noticed quite a few non-technical mistakes. Never charge smashes for no reason! (for example, if you aren't even near him) It might work against your friend who just runs into it each time, but it'll never work against anyone who sees it coming, moves just outside your range, and punishes you for the lag. You are better off breaking that habit now, even if it works on people you play against regularly. Try to be less predictable. After watching the first 30 seconds or so, I could predict what you were going to do next very easily. Your opponent seemed to have seen it coming too, and learned when to block. Use other attacks. Yes, his f-air and f-smash are good. But I've seen you use them in situations where another attack, such as f-tilt, u-tilt, n-air would have been a lot faster, and would have led to another attack, even without shorthopping.

You rely WAY, WAY too much on shielding and rolling. Your opponent got a lot of grabs on you because your only reaction to many situations is to shield. If you want to pick up another floaty, non-speed demon type as you call it, try to learn Game and Watch. It won't help the kind of tech skill Reik was talking about at all. What it will help is your general evasion, which you are severely lacking. You will have to learn how to dashdance and wavedash to create openings or evade attacks, as opposed to shielding or rolling, or you will die a lot faster than you would with Ness. Dashdancing is very easy to learn right away. Wavedashing takes a bit of practice. But trust me, if I can do it, anyone can... >_>

 

[W.Jr]

your Ness i straight

 

[thesage]

You should have tried to force him to stop his pill spamming. IMO you should've crept closer to him, or retreat and use pk thunder on him, forcing him to go closer to you. You could've tried deflecting the pills with you bat. You also need to DjC A LOT more.

 

[LBK! of CIC]

You have some of the best Fire and Thunder use in combat I've ever seen.

Too many dairs.

work on DJCing your aerials.

Short hop more.

Your grabs are really good. More JCing them would be better.

Bottom line, your Ness is really good and I hope I learned a few things from your videos.

EDIT:

Also, your backward WD at 3:11 in the FD match shows really good grasp of the concept of spacing.

 

[FzGhouL]

I have no idea how he did so much damage with pills. I would've increased the distance between you and him by 25%. Your ridiculous fair and dash attack range can still hit, while it gives you more time to react to pills. Also, you let him stay on the ground too much. I'd try to get him over the edge and edge guard him to death. At low % just Forward throw him towards the edge. If he tends to stay in the middle, pull him out to the side. I only watched the first video though.

Nice. I wish there were Ness players by me. :X

 

[KrulNess]

not bad, not bad...agree on almost everything eb360 said, especially on the DOUBLE JUMP CANCEL...no shffl. glad to see a ness user though!!

 

[Wave⁂]

i only have time to watch one, i pick the last one.

you're pretty good, just dont use as much ftilt and PK fire.

 

[mood4food77]

more mindgames

bumbleness is the right choice
and you know how to DJC, now make it faster, what we tend to do is go Y (or X) to up on control stick into a cstick, this makes you really low to the ground and still able to perform an aerial (only character able to do this, the other DJCers can't), learn to wavedsah, nice spacing on the fairs, learn to use the pk flash edgegaurd (it takes time, but it's worth it), and no, it may not hit everytime but if your facing a sweetspotter (like ganon or falcon) throwing it at the ledge scares them sometimes (o crap...pk flash...and it's at the ledge, what do i do)


well, the pk flash is unnecessary, shouldn't be used but it's fun against n00bs, but work on what earthbound said and you should be fine (really, both of you guys looked like how i started...it's really scary)

 

[BZZL]

Oh wow, I had no idea that people were still replying to this! Not until I got an email saying Simna left a message on the youtube video itself :D

Thanks for all the advice guys - I don't have time to reply to each of you individually, but I will make sure to put all the advice to good use. Hopefully I can record some new videos in the upcoming weeks.

 

[Tonbarry]

Nice vids.

 

[Lt. Killjoy]

Not bad, but the full hop dairs were killer to watch. I didn't watch all of the vids or read all of the critiques, but that is one of the biggest things I saw in the first vid. They were awfully predictable. Other than that, just work a little on the other technical stuff.