Ness/Falcon Help?

[kamui8899]

So I've been playing ness / falcon. I watched some isai videos, with ness he manages to do a dair without leaving the floor. I assume this is done through double jump canceling. I've somewhat emulated it by sliding my finger (i'm using the 64 controller) from the left-c, to down-c, to a while slapping down on the joystick. Sometimes it comes out (like 50%, assuming that what I'm doing actually is the correct input). Is that the correct input for fast spiking? At what dmg level does spiking them like this no longer combo (Just aprox, dont' have to char specific), as I'm assuming they eventually(?) bounce up when dmg gets too high? Or is it an infinite? And if what I'm doing is correct, is there an easy way of doing this?

Any other high level techniques for ness specifically that I should know?
Particularly interested in guarenteed comboes.

Anything similar like this for falcon?
Again particularly interested in guarenteed comboes. But nifty things are welcome too :D.

In Isai's vids(falc) he seems to have a tendency to do a forward throw at low dmg -> forward air -> up air (at least in the ones I've watched) etc. However it doesn't always link, is something mandatory like connecting with both of falcons feet in the fair before chaining the upair? Is his up+B at all guarenteed after upair at resonable dmgs?

I guess I'm just really looking for bread and butter moves/comboes for both chars... Thanks!

 

[Nybb]

Ness's grounded spike (hitting them with the stomp while they are on the ground) is pretty much always a combo. Grounded spikes have an absurd amount of hitstun in this game. It's not uncommon for grounded d-air > u-air to be a combo well into the 100's. It's not an infinite though, because if you spike them out of the air again they can just tech (push shield to recover off the ground quickly). With finger technique, just do whatever you can do easiest. I like to just push down-c twice and then do the air move personally.

Other things for Ness? DJC (doublejump cancel) u-air, it's a decent move and it always autocancels; that is, it never lags when you hit the ground during it. Use u-tilt a lot, it range is ridiculously large and the hitbox lasts forever. If you've got fast fingers for DJC, Ness can be pretty solid while he's on the stage.


If you're trying to learn to combo with Falcon, work on f-throw > u-air > u-air > ... > up-B before you start adding in f-airs or anything else fancy. This combo can also be started with u-smash. Basically, u-air is an incredible comboing move, just throw it out a lot. After you get this down, then you should move on to more complicated things. Falcon's spike on grounded opponents, similar to Ness's, gives ridiculous hitstun, and can also provide good combo opportunities.

Falcon doesn't really have any fancy fingerwork like DJC, which is one of the reasons many people play him. This, in addition to his easy comboing, makes him a good character to start learning high-level play with.

Also, welcome to smashboards, and particularly welcome the 64 section.

 

[Daedatheus]

For Ness DJCing, slide from right+C to down+c to A, then it's a straight line, rather than using left+c to start.

After a while I found myself using double-tap down+c for better control of my DJCs, but using the button sliding method is good for starting out while you're still increasing your finger speed.

For Falcon, try this combo in training mode vs. another Falcon on Hyrule or another flat-ish stage, and you will get a feel for Falcon's basic combo.

Upsmash
Upsmash
Jump, Up-air, Up-Air, hit ground (make sure you z-cancel all aerials)
Jump, Up-air, doublejump, up-air
Up+B

That is the most BASIC Falcon combo, on heavy chars. You can also replace the first upsmash with an fthrow, but you will have to dash underneath the launched opponent and start the upsmash and continue from there. Fthrow is usually much better for starting combos because it's much less punishable and Falcon likes to grab a lot. This combo will work on Falcon, Link, Fox, etc. It only racks damage though and full-on zero-to-death combos are different and situational depending on where you are on a stage. A combo like the one I wrote above can be done almost anywhere, often with slight variation (more uairs! weee).

Watch the following video for some more Falcon combo ideas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV1XQHi5j8o

 

[Skrlx]

with ness to continue the ground dair's you techchase them.
for example you dair them and they manage to escape your second dair so they tech this is where you decide which side are they gonna tech left or right? If you chose correctly you quicly move in the area where the tech animation ends and dair again

Oh yeah and there's enough hitstun in his Dair that you are able to grab the char after dairing the char in like around 60-70%

that's alot of HITSTUN!

 

[seX_panTHeR]

check out my falcons combos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWszPlY9t6E&feature=channel_page