need help with rules (suicide kills)

[MALCORE]

so in my community there is a lot of debate regarding what to do in a last stock situation when the following occurs: bowsercide, ganoncide, dddcide, kirbycide and diddycide.

what i want to know is what exactly is it that causes the match to favour one character over the other when it comes to the results. when i dddcide it will either call it a win loss or go to SD. is there equation that decides this? how much of an influence is controller ports?

assuming the whole process is random, should our community always favour the user of the suicide move regardless of the results screen, or should we just avoid the move as a viable option on last stocks because of the random factor.

as of now are rules are such:

* If a game ends with Ganondorf/Bowser using Ganoncide/Bowsercide and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Ganondorf/Bowser.
* If a game ends with DDD/Kirby using Inhale Suicide and it ends in sudden death, the match will be restarted at 1 stock.


basically the only thing this rule does right now is decide SD as a win for bowser/dorf, and a rematch for the others. but the random factor is still pretty big here.

thoughts?
(plz help with explaining why the match favours one over the other)

 

[SpongeBathBill]

Not sure I understand why D3 and Kirby get no love. I don't know how the rest of this usually works, but imho that's a very strange rule, and at the very least you should treat D3 and Kirby suicide kills the same as the others.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The suicide rule should only apply to Bowser and not to the others. Depending on your timing, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, and Wario can also perform suicide shenanigans, but it doesn't really matter. Allow me to explain the situation in full.

When Bowser suicides with his forward special, he wins the match if he is in the lower controller port and goes to sudden death when he is on the higher one.

When Ganondorf suicides with his forward special, he either loses or goes to sudden death depending on the initial height of the grab (it's based on the fact that he moves a quantized distance each frame and the distance between his death box and his opponent's is smaller than that).

When King Dedede and Kirby suicide with Inhale, it's always Sudden Death if I recall. I'm not 100% on that, but I'm very sure it's always the same result.

With Bowser, the rule should be in place because it's an unfair advantage to one player. Without the rule, player 1 Bowser has an advantage over player 2 Bowser that's quite substantial, and it generally encourages a lot of fighting over controller ports. Snake already encourages enough controller port issues... The main abstract idea here is fairness though; with any tactic, you could suggest a possible way for the opponent to be at least on equal footing is to select the same character and do the same tactic. That doesn't work against Bowser's claw suicide without the rule so the rule is needed.

Ganondorf's having him auto-win is ridiculous since it completely defies the ingame mechanics. Ganondorf can only win that way if his fall is interrupted by Brinstar or Norfair or something similar. A normal death either results in him losing or sudden death, and while it's mostly unpredictable which, it's hypothetically possible to know which is going to happen. Like, if I do a ledge hop to suicide on a particular stage to pull the opponent off and down, it will probably go the same way every time. Regardless, it's a non-random but simply arcane factor I choose to deal in when I use that move on last stock like that. The game's mechanics shouldn't be circumvented, and we already have rules to deal with Sudden Death.

Kirby and King Dedede apply just like Ganondorf except with them they're even more predictable. Yoshi, Diddy Kong, and Wario have poorly explored mechanics on their suicides because of how hard they are to do, but I don't think they invoke controller ports so it doesn't matter.

So yeah, the way the SBR rules currently are only applies to Bowser, and a good ruleset will keep it that way.

Note that there's evidently some shenanigan Bowser can do to always be reported the winner out of his claw suicide. I'm not particularly familiar, but it's a potential argument to drop the suicide rules altogether.