FigarotheCat
Smash Rookie
I have serious problems against Marth players whenever I use Luigi. Can anyone please give me some good advice for Luigi vs Marth battles?
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need help beating marth
- Thread starter FigarotheCat
- Start date
Wavedash into shield. Marth is more than likely going to try and fsmash you, just shield it, and wave into a grab or an aerial, that usually works for me. Try and stay off stages with platforms.
Also you can usually grab, dthrow, in to another dthrow or two and finish with a dsmash or aerial for a quick combo, they usually don't expect it, but its also easy for them to get out of.
Try and recover high, if you can. Marth has an easy edgeguard against luigi with dtilts, or even short hop a dair and spike your recovery.
Also you can usually grab, dthrow, in to another dthrow or two and finish with a dsmash or aerial for a quick combo, they usually don't expect it, but its also easy for them to get out of.
Try and recover high, if you can. Marth has an easy edgeguard against luigi with dtilts, or even short hop a dair and spike your recovery.
This thread has all the information you need to know.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91241
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91241
dude.. remember marth is one of the worst luigi match ups..
king, all of that things u said, are good, when they work out.. but plenty of the time theey dont.. the matchup with marth is abd because its REALLY hard to touch him..
i can tell u some advices..
1, never go after him exept if you are comboing him and u know he cannot recover after an attack u just did.. if u know he wont recover, go for another attack.. try to confuse him a lot wif quick grabs.. dont smash a lot, because he can just dashdance and grab, smash, or whatever he wants to. do.. also, use utilts, because u tilts can make em go lil upward, to another hit.. and if u hit theyr shield, plenty of time u will slide out of it.. because of sweet ligis traction. . . dont roll so much, and dodge often.. one dodged marth´s fsmash is 27 percenr or more for matth. maybe a stock.
2.- dont go after him if he is out of platform, because he can ill u of 1 hit.. maybe a fair, o an upb, or even a sideb. . . there are only two really useful ways to edgeguard marth, and when i mean useful, are the more useful, but they dont always work.. one is edgehogging, and then bair him.. he will not come back after grab de edge again and get onto the stage wif L. the other way is, staying in the edge, and dair marth when u know he is doing the up b. . . if u think ull risk so much doing them un a moment.. dont do it, just go back to the stage, and wait him to get in the stage again.. is better beeing pair, than losing a stock when u know u wee gonna take a high risk. . .
3.- RANDOM STUFF, u gotta do a lot of random stuff, because like i said, this matchup is at marths favo because its REALLY hard for luigi to hit him.. so do random stuff, things that the marth does not expect.. also, playing vs a marth really depends on the marth´s user style. . . if u wanna win this matchup, u wont forget about beeing quick, or looking nice playing.. u gotta play in a HIGH mental level.. and reading the opponent is the best way to beat an opponent, specially this and sheik´s match up vs luigi. . .
i repeat, dont go after marth, wait for him to go after u.. i defend a lot with fireballs when he is fa from me.. it works well for me.. dont do fireballs when he is near, because ur gonna get a sweetspotted fsmash all into ur annous. . . when i do fireballs, i short hop backwards and fireball him with a fastfall.. like a falco laser in slomomode.. funny isnt it ^^ haha.. well it is.. and it works for me.. u will be able to take some percent, and bother the marth a lil more..
when u are out of stage, try to get back wif second jumps, so try to keep second jump and forward b first to save ur ***.. when u gran the edge with a sweet spotted second jump, itsharder for the marth to hit you. . . always have charged ur down b so u can do raise tornado. . . if u wasted second jump, try to sweetspot the edge wif the up b.. and learn how to tech, so u tech the smash, and sometimes de dtilt.. but NEVER WALLJUMPTECH.. wallljumpteching means instant death. . . only wallech, so u drop and instantly upB
when u are edge hogging and he is in the platform trying to dont let u come in, down b from edge hogging to platform works pretty well, that works on samus well too.. and more characters.. but specially those two..
blea here
edited
king, all of that things u said, are good, when they work out.. but plenty of the time theey dont.. the matchup with marth is abd because its REALLY hard to touch him..
i can tell u some advices..
1, never go after him exept if you are comboing him and u know he cannot recover after an attack u just did.. if u know he wont recover, go for another attack.. try to confuse him a lot wif quick grabs.. dont smash a lot, because he can just dashdance and grab, smash, or whatever he wants to. do.. also, use utilts, because u tilts can make em go lil upward, to another hit.. and if u hit theyr shield, plenty of time u will slide out of it.. because of sweet ligis traction. . . dont roll so much, and dodge often.. one dodged marth´s fsmash is 27 percenr or more for matth. maybe a stock.
2.- dont go after him if he is out of platform, because he can ill u of 1 hit.. maybe a fair, o an upb, or even a sideb. . . there are only two really useful ways to edgeguard marth, and when i mean useful, are the more useful, but they dont always work.. one is edgehogging, and then bair him.. he will not come back after grab de edge again and get onto the stage wif L. the other way is, staying in the edge, and dair marth when u know he is doing the up b. . . if u think ull risk so much doing them un a moment.. dont do it, just go back to the stage, and wait him to get in the stage again.. is better beeing pair, than losing a stock when u know u wee gonna take a high risk. . .
3.- RANDOM STUFF, u gotta do a lot of random stuff, because like i said, this matchup is at marths favo because its REALLY hard for luigi to hit him.. so do random stuff, things that the marth does not expect.. also, playing vs a marth really depends on the marth´s user style. . . if u wanna win this matchup, u wont forget about beeing quick, or looking nice playing.. u gotta play in a HIGH mental level.. and reading the opponent is the best way to beat an opponent, specially this and sheik´s match up vs luigi. . .
i repeat, dont go after marth, wait for him to go after u.. i defend a lot with fireballs when he is fa from me.. it works well for me.. dont do fireballs when he is near, because ur gonna get a sweetspotted fsmash all into ur annous. . . when i do fireballs, i short hop backwards and fireball him with a fastfall.. like a falco laser in slomomode.. funny isnt it ^^ haha.. well it is.. and it works for me.. u will be able to take some percent, and bother the marth a lil more..
when u are out of stage, try to get back wif second jumps, so try to keep second jump and forward b first to save ur ***.. when u gran the edge with a sweet spotted second jump, itsharder for the marth to hit you. . . always have charged ur down b so u can do raise tornado. . . if u wasted second jump, try to sweetspot the edge wif the up b.. and learn how to tech, so u tech the smash, and sometimes de dtilt.. but NEVER WALLJUMPTECH.. wallljumpteching means instant death. . . only wallech, so u drop and instantly upB
when u are edge hogging and he is in the platform trying to dont let u come in, down b from edge hogging to platform works pretty well, that works on samus well too.. and more characters.. but specially those two..
blea here
edited
1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey
Smash Cadet
I'm quite sure "going after marth" is an important thing to do.
You have in-and-out speed that he can't protect against very well. With ftilts and grabs, a good Marth that knows the match up will spam aerials and OUT SPACE YOU if you're not going IN and OUT with attacks and good shielding.
Marth isn't a bad match up, it really isn't one sided in almost any way or for any reason.
NOT approaching is NOT a good start. You'll get pressured when he comes after you enough to DD in your face but out of your immediate attack range and too close to WD accordingly.
MOVE and SHIELD and FINISH YOUR COMBOS.
If that means you have to trade a Uair with his Fair, DO IT
The combo doesn't have to finish there, and Marth is much less of a threat in the air then on the ground, even with his aerial speed and range. A Fair trade is a GOOD trade for you.
Just like every match up with Marth, he can't do anything but grab if you're in his GTFOless area. Get inside lots and get out if it fails.
You have in-and-out speed that he can't protect against very well. With ftilts and grabs, a good Marth that knows the match up will spam aerials and OUT SPACE YOU if you're not going IN and OUT with attacks and good shielding.
Marth isn't a bad match up, it really isn't one sided in almost any way or for any reason.
NOT approaching is NOT a good start. You'll get pressured when he comes after you enough to DD in your face but out of your immediate attack range and too close to WD accordingly.
MOVE and SHIELD and FINISH YOUR COMBOS.
If that means you have to trade a Uair with his Fair, DO IT
The combo doesn't have to finish there, and Marth is much less of a threat in the air then on the ground, even with his aerial speed and range. A Fair trade is a GOOD trade for you.
Just like every match up with Marth, he can't do anything but grab if you're in his GTFOless area. Get inside lots and get out if it fails.
The big thing about marth is punishment. Capitalize when you can and play safe otherwise. Marth had a lot of edge guarding weapons that obliterate Luigi.
My favorite thing against Marth is that if you shield the F-smash you get a free wd out of shield -> grab or shoryuken. Utilize this.
My favorite thing against Marth is that if you shield the F-smash you get a free wd out of shield -> grab or shoryuken. Utilize this.
1frame, goinf after marth menas death.. he has everything, even a distance pillar.. waiting for he to wrong, it just lot better than going ater a marth that knows how to play and knows how to defend himself. . .
in and out speed he cant protect very well? play a really good marth, he is also really speedy, has a good distance wavedash, and longer ranged grab than luigi´s. playing random is the thing.. but not going in and out speedy...
if you are goint to go after him, play randomly, thats what i said.. marth has a notable adventage on luigi, that does not means luigi cannot win the matchup, but marth has an adventage
im not saying u would play the entire game like that, waiting for him to make a mistake, but playing deffensive its good..
Are you sure about what u said, the air luigi´s adventage and stuff? dude.. marths attacks are more ranged that luigi ones, im not syaing trading attackk, i dont know from where did u took that.. luigis game in the air is godlike when u are comboiing, but have u tryed before jumping when a marth is on the floor? if u havent, do it.. he would ick your *** man, and if that works for you, that marth is not deffending himself good.. the worst thing u can do vs a marth is beeing above him. uair, fsmash and u tilt do all the work
in and out speed he cant protect very well? play a really good marth, he is also really speedy, has a good distance wavedash, and longer ranged grab than luigi´s. playing random is the thing.. but not going in and out speedy...
if you are goint to go after him, play randomly, thats what i said.. marth has a notable adventage on luigi, that does not means luigi cannot win the matchup, but marth has an adventage
im not saying u would play the entire game like that, waiting for him to make a mistake, but playing deffensive its good..
Are you sure about what u said, the air luigi´s adventage and stuff? dude.. marths attacks are more ranged that luigi ones, im not syaing trading attackk, i dont know from where did u took that.. luigis game in the air is godlike when u are comboiing, but have u tryed before jumping when a marth is on the floor? if u havent, do it.. he would ick your *** man, and if that works for you, that marth is not deffending himself good.. the worst thing u can do vs a marth is beeing above him. uair, fsmash and u tilt do all the work
1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey
Smash Cadet
I'm having a little trouble making out what you're trying to say but I think you simply misread something.
In out and speed is a lot of the reason Fox does well against Marth. He has all that spacing jazz (we all know this) so getting inside is tough, but Luigi can do that too.
His moves are slow enough that he'll spam aerials etc and DD around at a distance (we all know this too)
However, through his spam and moving, there ARE openings, you can force those openings out if you approach properly. If Luigi doesn't approach, Luigi won't win against Marth. He can be camped better than he can camp Marth. (That's all I said in the previous post, defensive but approaching is a MUST)
I have a very campy and defensive style with Luigi, but with Marth I camp less than usual. The camping I usually play helps but in turn this has become my best match up because of my transition to aggressive play when appropriate.
Marth > Luigi in the air. BUT, Marth is easier to handle when he's in the air, so if Marth is in the air, go under him and attack him! Do NOT back off. Trading aerials is good, and that's your chance to do it. (That's all I said in the previous post, attack him when he's in that air, capitilize on openings)
He has that "in and out speed" on the ground. That's why you stay grounded. (First post too)
I'm pretty sure we're both on the same page but I can't tell lol.
I hope that wasn't too confusing hahah
In out and speed is a lot of the reason Fox does well against Marth. He has all that spacing jazz (we all know this) so getting inside is tough, but Luigi can do that too.
His moves are slow enough that he'll spam aerials etc and DD around at a distance (we all know this too)
However, through his spam and moving, there ARE openings, you can force those openings out if you approach properly. If Luigi doesn't approach, Luigi won't win against Marth. He can be camped better than he can camp Marth. (That's all I said in the previous post, defensive but approaching is a MUST)
I have a very campy and defensive style with Luigi, but with Marth I camp less than usual. The camping I usually play helps but in turn this has become my best match up because of my transition to aggressive play when appropriate.
Marth > Luigi in the air. BUT, Marth is easier to handle when he's in the air, so if Marth is in the air, go under him and attack him! Do NOT back off. Trading aerials is good, and that's your chance to do it. (That's all I said in the previous post, attack him when he's in that air, capitilize on openings)
He has that "in and out speed" on the ground. That's why you stay grounded. (First post too)
I'm pretty sure we're both on the same page but I can't tell lol.
I hope that wasn't too confusing hahah
when u said about getting him in the air, i undestood hitting him wif a fair i dont know.. ofcourse, its easly handed when he is in the air..
u dont stay grounded because u have an in and out speed, u stay in theground ebcause he punishes u in the air..
of course marth camping is better than luigi´s camping, a marth´s offensive is better than luigi´s offensive, marth is better than luigi´s in both aspetcts.. but waiting for a mistake and playing pretty randomly is better playing offensive..
no dude dont worry, is not confusing ^^, i understood all..
im stating to think its about opinnions, because u can do both things.. like i said, u have to play a marth depending on he´s user style
u dont stay grounded because u have an in and out speed, u stay in theground ebcause he punishes u in the air..
of course marth camping is better than luigi´s camping, a marth´s offensive is better than luigi´s offensive, marth is better than luigi´s in both aspetcts.. but waiting for a mistake and playing pretty randomly is better playing offensive..
no dude dont worry, is not confusing ^^, i understood all..
im stating to think its about opinnions, because u can do both things.. like i said, u have to play a marth depending on he´s user style
Dark_Crono
Smash Journeyman
Just watch Ka-Master vs Dj Combo :D.
if you couldnt understand what they were saying just go to the link Pakman posted.
1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey
Smash Cadet
This one of Ka vs DJ was one of my favorites about a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkS3e2Bddgo
Nothing special happens, but on FD there are no obstructions or stage play and it's a basic Marth vs Luigi match. DJC makes several small openings everywhere, and Ka can capitilize on these. It also demonstrates how trading hits with Marth 50% of the time keeps the game even as Luigi deals way more damage with his harder attacks.
This isn't so much how it would be played today, but the backbone of the events that happen are all there.
Blea
I think the reason we have slightly different opinions hear is because of the calibur marths we're talking about. I'll never sit back and wait for mistakes against a Marth, as the best Marth in Canada is in my region and he DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES. LOL So at the highest possible level, Luigi HAS to play offensive (similar to how Ka does vs DJC there). That Marth player has difficulty with me because he can't do anything without me flying in and attacking him. That's something Luigi needs to use to beat the best Marths, so that's what I do and what I'll tell other Luigi's if they ask.
But yes, playing defensively is important. And against Marths that you can match in skill, it's often enough for Luigi to win just by being defensive and taking safe chances.
That doesn't mean constant attack, just attacking at every TINY opportunity. Because he needs to if he's to win against a mistakeless marth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkS3e2Bddgo
Nothing special happens, but on FD there are no obstructions or stage play and it's a basic Marth vs Luigi match. DJC makes several small openings everywhere, and Ka can capitilize on these. It also demonstrates how trading hits with Marth 50% of the time keeps the game even as Luigi deals way more damage with his harder attacks.
This isn't so much how it would be played today, but the backbone of the events that happen are all there.
Blea
I think the reason we have slightly different opinions hear is because of the calibur marths we're talking about. I'll never sit back and wait for mistakes against a Marth, as the best Marth in Canada is in my region and he DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES. LOL So at the highest possible level, Luigi HAS to play offensive (similar to how Ka does vs DJC there). That Marth player has difficulty with me because he can't do anything without me flying in and attacking him. That's something Luigi needs to use to beat the best Marths, so that's what I do and what I'll tell other Luigi's if they ask.
But yes, playing defensively is important. And against Marths that you can match in skill, it's often enough for Luigi to win just by being defensive and taking safe chances.
That doesn't mean constant attack, just attacking at every TINY opportunity. Because he needs to if he's to win against a mistakeless marth.
and because its best marths in canada he does not makes mistakes?
ok im going to thank two things when u talk to me, 1 is, respect my oppinion as im respecting yours, it works for me and i played in florida with qdvs and more ppl.. and qdvs, beeing one of the best usa marth, comits mistakes
second, stop your ego, what do i care if u play with one of the best marths in canada, i really dont care.. i got to my conclusions ofro my experience, andi have played wif good marths.. so dont talk like u would know more about me.. we dont know who now more about it in first place, we dont know each other.. second, i know i have lot of experience, and i know what i have learned what i have tryed and what i have prove, to get tothis conclusion.. im starting to think u dont know whats deffending with luigi.
u imagine when i say deffend, ligi would take out lin´s shield or transform into a wall? no.. im saying even if you have the perfect game, thers a way to beat, thers an apperture.. in this game thers no perrfect mastery, thers NOT. waiting and discovering the way to beat marth its a good way, and while, playing random, deffending, using fireballs, not getting crazy, not going in and out speedy like a *** because im not flash nor captain falcon, and punishing when i comboing..
u gotta go afterhim when be is under pressure, but u shouldnt pressure him when u are far fromm here, thats y i told you.. wait for a hole, to grab throw, aerial whatever, pressure, and THEN stay over him like a ****ing pain in the ***.. that works for me, from my experience.. fro playing wif hpnotiq, darkcrono, marius, qdvs, colbol, spidersense, many more. . .
respect my oppinion, this works out for me prety well... i respect yours
yeah, i also know a master ais a well mastered luigi, i talk to him a lot and we share oppinions.. but it does not means ka master does not commits istakes, have u seen a luigi deffending imself? have you? looks like you dont :S, dont give an oppinion if u havent.. dont see ka like a god.. he is a well mastered luigi, he is a normal person, he is a mortal, lol.. he also commits mistakes.. and im not saying laying like that is a mistake, if u know how to read in the first post i wrote, i said, this works our FOR ME.. and it works out pretty well, REALLY well, better than going in and oup spedy.. sorry for saying it so much, it was so funny to read.. i starting to think u are a close minded and u dont take oppinions.. ir u were experimented, u would know about trying what people say, if theyr oppinions are different than yours.. y im not choossing playing like u say? because i tryed it already.. if u tryed it, maybe we are better in our way.. dont know, dont really give a ****, we have DIFFERENT OPPINIONS, and we dont know who of us is more experiented.. amybe u will say you because im a latinamerican and i haven layed that much wif ppl in usa? thers a pretty god lvl of ppl here.. ask florida and GA, i think i do because i now who im playinf wif and i know i have played good florida and venezulan marths? dont give a **** also, we dont know.. like i said, respect of oppinions
ok im going to thank two things when u talk to me, 1 is, respect my oppinion as im respecting yours, it works for me and i played in florida with qdvs and more ppl.. and qdvs, beeing one of the best usa marth, comits mistakes
second, stop your ego, what do i care if u play with one of the best marths in canada, i really dont care.. i got to my conclusions ofro my experience, andi have played wif good marths.. so dont talk like u would know more about me.. we dont know who now more about it in first place, we dont know each other.. second, i know i have lot of experience, and i know what i have learned what i have tryed and what i have prove, to get tothis conclusion.. im starting to think u dont know whats deffending with luigi.
u imagine when i say deffend, ligi would take out lin´s shield or transform into a wall? no.. im saying even if you have the perfect game, thers a way to beat, thers an apperture.. in this game thers no perrfect mastery, thers NOT. waiting and discovering the way to beat marth its a good way, and while, playing random, deffending, using fireballs, not getting crazy, not going in and out speedy like a *** because im not flash nor captain falcon, and punishing when i comboing..
u gotta go afterhim when be is under pressure, but u shouldnt pressure him when u are far fromm here, thats y i told you.. wait for a hole, to grab throw, aerial whatever, pressure, and THEN stay over him like a ****ing pain in the ***.. that works for me, from my experience.. fro playing wif hpnotiq, darkcrono, marius, qdvs, colbol, spidersense, many more. . .
respect my oppinion, this works out for me prety well... i respect yours
yeah, i also know a master ais a well mastered luigi, i talk to him a lot and we share oppinions.. but it does not means ka master does not commits istakes, have u seen a luigi deffending imself? have you? looks like you dont :S, dont give an oppinion if u havent.. dont see ka like a god.. he is a well mastered luigi, he is a normal person, he is a mortal, lol.. he also commits mistakes.. and im not saying laying like that is a mistake, if u know how to read in the first post i wrote, i said, this works our FOR ME.. and it works out pretty well, REALLY well, better than going in and oup spedy.. sorry for saying it so much, it was so funny to read.. i starting to think u are a close minded and u dont take oppinions.. ir u were experimented, u would know about trying what people say, if theyr oppinions are different than yours.. y im not choossing playing like u say? because i tryed it already.. if u tryed it, maybe we are better in our way.. dont know, dont really give a ****, we have DIFFERENT OPPINIONS, and we dont know who of us is more experiented.. amybe u will say you because im a latinamerican and i haven layed that much wif ppl in usa? thers a pretty god lvl of ppl here.. ask florida and GA, i think i do because i now who im playinf wif and i know i have played good florida and venezulan marths? dont give a **** also, we dont know.. like i said, respect of oppinions
1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey
Smash Cadet
?
I haven't said anything about you being wrong. I know exactly what you're saying, and it's good. I respect your opinion, don't worry ahaha
Ka makes loads of mistakes, there's lots of opening for growth in the Luigi metagame, so ALL Luigi's make simple mistakes that other Luigi's don't do. (kinda sucks really)
Eddy Mexico and I were hanging out LOTS at Genesis. He's awesome!
The best marth in Canada is latino too just so you know LOL
I don't have an ego, I'm noob :S
Sorry if it came across that way.
Please settle down. We're all weegees together <3
LOL
1 thing though...
Marth leaves lots of holes as his attacks don't come out fast enough and there are laggy points in his wall. Taking small oportunities in needed, because openings don't come up often. That's all. :D
I haven't said anything about you being wrong. I know exactly what you're saying, and it's good. I respect your opinion, don't worry ahaha
Ka makes loads of mistakes, there's lots of opening for growth in the Luigi metagame, so ALL Luigi's make simple mistakes that other Luigi's don't do. (kinda sucks really)
Eddy Mexico and I were hanging out LOTS at Genesis. He's awesome!
The best marth in Canada is latino too just so you know LOL
I don't have an ego, I'm noob :S
Sorry if it came across that way.
Please settle down. We're all weegees together <3
LOL
1 thing though...
Marth leaves lots of holes as his attacks don't come out fast enough and there are laggy points in his wall. Taking small oportunities in needed, because openings don't come up often. That's all. :D
SoldierRift
Smash Journeyman
Spam everything....
Im sorry, im not even sure why im posting this
Im sorry, im not even sure why im posting this
saxxon
Smash Rookie
air dodging onto the stage as a recovery is pretty effective verse marth if you're in the right situation.
1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey
Smash Cadet
that's alright in the social thread
lol
Air dodging is pretty legit for Luigi more than others. Good grab sweetspot, bad Upb horizontally. Gives him a lot more room to recover, as it does to everyone, but it works well with what he has.