MeekSpeedy
Smash Ace
First off, my smash tag is Meekspeedy, and I've been a Sonic main since early Brawl days. I'm relatively well known for my Sonic gameplay in Brawl and Project:M. I've attended tourneys and nationals, played against some of the best, and feel well-respected within the Sonic community for both games. Having won a tournament for smash 4 yesterday, I'm going to give my initial thoughts on Sonic!
Moveset analysis: I figured I'd break down each move into my own thoughts. Some of them there isn't much to say, but here goes nothing.
Jab: Standard jab, pretty well the exact same one in Brawl. It feels a tiny bit more reliable with its range this time around, and with SDI not being a thing, its reliability as a quick up-close option is high. The knockback on the 3rd hit is nothing to gloat about, but it's enough knockback to either put them offstage or put them in the air to prepare you for a punish on their landing and potentially set up something more.
Tilts
Ftilt: Nearly identical to the Brawl ftilt, there's 2 separate hitboxes, comes out relatively fast, and has pretty good range. Not much else to say about this.
Dtilt: While the animation is the same as the dtilt we're all used to, its new applications are completely different. The trajectory this move sends your opponent is very interesting. It sends them nearly completely sideways. The knockback isn't very high, but this move really shines on the edgeguarding portion of the game, especially in matchups vs characters that aren't strong in the air (cough cough little mac cough cough).
Uptilt: MUCH improved from the Brawl uptilt, having significantly less lag now, and coming out a tiny bit faster. It's by no means ever going to have enough knockback to kill, but there's multiple combo setups into this move.
Smashes
Fsmash: Similar to Brawl fsmash, but they fixed the 2 main problems of this move: power and range. It feels to have a small power boost compared to before, and the range seems longer as well.
Dsmash: The revamped dsmash is interesting. Sonic does the splits, covering both sides of him at the same time. I feel that this is a much stronger option coverage tool than the Brawl dsmash, and it's SIGNIFICANTLY safer than the Brawl dsmash. Its power is moderate, but underwhelming as a whole.
Usmash: Usmash out of shield in this game isn't terrible, if someone throws an aerial on your shield, usmash oos should be your go-to option. It can actually kill at really high percents now, as well. The damage is respectable, and if someone is on a platform and you throw this at their shield, it'll really eat their shield up.
Specials
SideB: Simply amazing. The jump is now VERY quick, the move overall has FAR more priority, and the damage output of this move in combination with the aerial followup is absurd. You're still able to shield cancel upon charge up, just like in Brawl. There's also a very unique spinjump now, where you go upward, but stay in the charging animation. It's rather gimmicky, since you can't double jump or aerial out of this jump, but the moves charging, more or less stops, and then continues charging upon landing. Meaning if you hold R, you'll shield the moment you land from this jump.
DownB: The spindash properties of this move are weaker than sideB, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Due to it being weaker, it opens up new possibilities, such as using Dair as a followup after spindash, and chaining bair into it once sideB has too much knockback to chain bair into it anymore. This move also seems to have repeating hitboxes, meaning that if someone were to shield this move, it'd hit their shield about 4 times if you were to stay grounded with the move.
UpB: Spring is interesting in this game. Removing perhaps the greatest weakness Sonic had, they made it so it snaps to the ledge. The distance you travel is still really high. You can still get grab released out of it and die, so try to make sure you can always face towards the ledge so you can autosnap to it. Kirby/DDD swallow out of your upB also means certain death. As for the spring itself, its edgeguarding properties are even better in this game, since now it sends them at a more consistant trajectory, and seems to have slightly more knockback.
NeutralB: A mix of the P:M homing attack and the Brawl homing attack. Maintains the Brawl homing attacks chargeup cancelling (Can half the time of charging by pressing B again), but is now much more accurate and comes out faster (but not as fast as P:Ms homing attack). A fantastic mixup, and useful if you're struggling to find your footing.
Throws
Fthrow: Your quickest throw, making it your safest throw in a 2v1 scenario, while also being able to hit multiple targets at the same time. The knockback is improved, but you won't be killing with this throw.
Uthrow: Nerfed from Brawl, but still really good. Your go-to throw for combo attempts. Uthrow > Uair works on multiple occassions, and if there's platforms, you can potentially continue stringing uairs together
Dthrow: Fantastic throw. Still holds the weakness of DIing down and teching, but nobody is doing that this early in the metagame. Very good if you're close to the ledge and facing towards it, as it can lead to a dtilt / dair / spring.
Bthrow: Oh dear lord this throw is godlike. I've killed someone with it on Yoshis Island at 110% by the ledge. This throw may actually be Sonics most reliable kill option, as it's much easier to land a grab instead of a smash or bair. Maintaining the same attributes of Brawl (Moving throw, has their back facing towards the ledge), but with significantly more power behind it.
Aerials
Fair: With SDI being pretty well gone, this move has gone from "don't bother using it" to "pretty good". It offers great shield pressure, and while this doesn't always seem to work for me, I've had it string into itself.
Uair: Still probably Sonics best aerial. As soon as the 2nd kick comes out, you're free to land laglessly. You can also do first hit uair > utilt at early percentages, as a combo. The knockback isn't great on this move, but its killing applications are the same as Brawls. The range of this move isn't as sublime as Brawls uair, but it's still really good.
Bair: Very awkward compared to Brawls bair. This bair seems to have significantly large landing lag if you do it close to the ground. Fantastic offstage tool for edge guarding. The knockback is decent, but underwhelming. Don't be surprised if people are surviving this move at higher percentages.
Dair: A mix of the Brawl and P:M dairs. While taking the spike from P:Ms dair, but staying at the same speed as the Brawl dair. This move is great for edgeguarding, as it covers so much range. With the spike on it too, you can kill people at VERY low percentages by spiking them down, and then footstooling them at the bottom blastzone afterward.
Nair: Literally just a better version of Brawls nair. Seems to have a bit more range, relatively the same knockback as before, and slightly less landing lag.
Dash attack: EXTREMELY similar to P:Ms sideB. Multiple hitboxes, ending in with a kick. This really solved the problem that Sonics dash attack had in Brawl. In Brawl, at lower percentages, if you were to land a dash attack, you would get hit for landing that hit, making it unsafe on hit confirm. Now, you hit them multiple times, and the kick knocks them far enough away to not make it possible for them to punish you for landing a hit. Good move overall.
Spinshot: I've done it on accident with sideB. It's certainly still in the game, but there's nothing else I can really say about that.
How good is Sonic in this game compared to other characters?
IMO, right now he's somewhere within the top 10.
What characters do you think beat / counter Sonic right now?
Sheik and Yoshi feel really hard to deal with. I haven't played vs one yet, but I'd imagine Lucario or Rosaluma would also be very rough. Mario seems annoying to deal with as well. All his matchups thus far seem winnable, though. I can't imagine him having a matchup worse than -1.
How should people be using this character? What kind of playstyle should be applied?
For now, I'm not going to say much about this. The game is a week old, so there's no set in stone strategy for how someone should play a character. But what I do is all situational. The character you're playing against, the situation of the match, and what stage you're playing on all hold a piece of play into what you can or should apply. If you're vs a character with no projectile or strong zoning tools, and you have a stock lead, you're free to camp him, bait out his kill attempts, and punish hard for their greed. If you're playing from behind in the same situation, you should be looking for some some sort of opening in their gameplay that'll net you a kill, let it be a habit, or something you've conditioned them into doing. This is getting on a tangent of how to play smash, so I'll stop this here.
Any neat combo setups?
DownB > Dair offstage feels amazing. There's a potential double jump into footstool, INTO a spring. Beyond overkill, and works at relatively lower percents (40-50ish).
First hit Uair > Utilt feels really good, and does decent damage.
Fair can string into itself vs heavier characters.
Uair can string into itself with the assistance of platforms.
The 2008 uthrow > upB > uair can still work in this game, but at much lower percentages in this game compared to Brawls.
SideB > Uair puts them in the air, while racking on around ~22 percent.
Comboing aerials out of the hop of sideB also works really well, and the hop has decent priority.
Cool tricks to the trade?
SideB can shield cancel, but you can also shield cancel out of the hop. So hop onto a platform, shield cancel, then shield drop through the platform. It's not that hard to do, but it's super swag.
upB OoS is really good if you feel super pressured in your shield. Landing on your grounded spring is like P:M, where it resets your upB, making it so you can do specials in the air again. THUS making this option even more reliable than it was in Brawl.
You can do footstools out of the hop from sideB. Doing these offstage, in conjunction with a spring, is really powerful. I'm not 100% on this, but the spring still is weak enough to jab reset. So potential Espy combo?? Unfortunately you can only get a maximum of 3 jabs now on a jab reset, but still...the potential is there.
DDP (Dash Dance Pivoting) is still in this game, and all of its options out of it are also still in the game. It does feel harder to do now, but that's probably because of the control scheme that the 3DS offers.
While on the topic of dashing options, the little slide you could do on your initial dash animation is also still in the game.
Invincible SpinDash Roll (for the Brawl Sonics, iSDR) where you'd use sideB on a slope at 45 degrees or greater, is no longer in the game. The hop of sideB jumps much higher now. Although sideB itself may still have invincibility on startup, not 100% sure of that yet though. Someone should test this. :O
Welp. That about wraps up my thoughts on smash 4 Sonic. Hopefully someone actually reads all this, and this sparks up some input from other users and gets the ball rolling...haha...get it...cuz sonic is a ball...hahaha...ha...ha... Yeah, I'll quit while I'm ahead here.
Moveset analysis: I figured I'd break down each move into my own thoughts. Some of them there isn't much to say, but here goes nothing.
Jab: Standard jab, pretty well the exact same one in Brawl. It feels a tiny bit more reliable with its range this time around, and with SDI not being a thing, its reliability as a quick up-close option is high. The knockback on the 3rd hit is nothing to gloat about, but it's enough knockback to either put them offstage or put them in the air to prepare you for a punish on their landing and potentially set up something more.
Tilts
Ftilt: Nearly identical to the Brawl ftilt, there's 2 separate hitboxes, comes out relatively fast, and has pretty good range. Not much else to say about this.
Dtilt: While the animation is the same as the dtilt we're all used to, its new applications are completely different. The trajectory this move sends your opponent is very interesting. It sends them nearly completely sideways. The knockback isn't very high, but this move really shines on the edgeguarding portion of the game, especially in matchups vs characters that aren't strong in the air (cough cough little mac cough cough).
Uptilt: MUCH improved from the Brawl uptilt, having significantly less lag now, and coming out a tiny bit faster. It's by no means ever going to have enough knockback to kill, but there's multiple combo setups into this move.
Smashes
Fsmash: Similar to Brawl fsmash, but they fixed the 2 main problems of this move: power and range. It feels to have a small power boost compared to before, and the range seems longer as well.
Dsmash: The revamped dsmash is interesting. Sonic does the splits, covering both sides of him at the same time. I feel that this is a much stronger option coverage tool than the Brawl dsmash, and it's SIGNIFICANTLY safer than the Brawl dsmash. Its power is moderate, but underwhelming as a whole.
Usmash: Usmash out of shield in this game isn't terrible, if someone throws an aerial on your shield, usmash oos should be your go-to option. It can actually kill at really high percents now, as well. The damage is respectable, and if someone is on a platform and you throw this at their shield, it'll really eat their shield up.
Specials
SideB: Simply amazing. The jump is now VERY quick, the move overall has FAR more priority, and the damage output of this move in combination with the aerial followup is absurd. You're still able to shield cancel upon charge up, just like in Brawl. There's also a very unique spinjump now, where you go upward, but stay in the charging animation. It's rather gimmicky, since you can't double jump or aerial out of this jump, but the moves charging, more or less stops, and then continues charging upon landing. Meaning if you hold R, you'll shield the moment you land from this jump.
DownB: The spindash properties of this move are weaker than sideB, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Due to it being weaker, it opens up new possibilities, such as using Dair as a followup after spindash, and chaining bair into it once sideB has too much knockback to chain bair into it anymore. This move also seems to have repeating hitboxes, meaning that if someone were to shield this move, it'd hit their shield about 4 times if you were to stay grounded with the move.
UpB: Spring is interesting in this game. Removing perhaps the greatest weakness Sonic had, they made it so it snaps to the ledge. The distance you travel is still really high. You can still get grab released out of it and die, so try to make sure you can always face towards the ledge so you can autosnap to it. Kirby/DDD swallow out of your upB also means certain death. As for the spring itself, its edgeguarding properties are even better in this game, since now it sends them at a more consistant trajectory, and seems to have slightly more knockback.
NeutralB: A mix of the P:M homing attack and the Brawl homing attack. Maintains the Brawl homing attacks chargeup cancelling (Can half the time of charging by pressing B again), but is now much more accurate and comes out faster (but not as fast as P:Ms homing attack). A fantastic mixup, and useful if you're struggling to find your footing.
Throws
Fthrow: Your quickest throw, making it your safest throw in a 2v1 scenario, while also being able to hit multiple targets at the same time. The knockback is improved, but you won't be killing with this throw.
Uthrow: Nerfed from Brawl, but still really good. Your go-to throw for combo attempts. Uthrow > Uair works on multiple occassions, and if there's platforms, you can potentially continue stringing uairs together
Dthrow: Fantastic throw. Still holds the weakness of DIing down and teching, but nobody is doing that this early in the metagame. Very good if you're close to the ledge and facing towards it, as it can lead to a dtilt / dair / spring.
Bthrow: Oh dear lord this throw is godlike. I've killed someone with it on Yoshis Island at 110% by the ledge. This throw may actually be Sonics most reliable kill option, as it's much easier to land a grab instead of a smash or bair. Maintaining the same attributes of Brawl (Moving throw, has their back facing towards the ledge), but with significantly more power behind it.
Aerials
Fair: With SDI being pretty well gone, this move has gone from "don't bother using it" to "pretty good". It offers great shield pressure, and while this doesn't always seem to work for me, I've had it string into itself.
Uair: Still probably Sonics best aerial. As soon as the 2nd kick comes out, you're free to land laglessly. You can also do first hit uair > utilt at early percentages, as a combo. The knockback isn't great on this move, but its killing applications are the same as Brawls. The range of this move isn't as sublime as Brawls uair, but it's still really good.
Bair: Very awkward compared to Brawls bair. This bair seems to have significantly large landing lag if you do it close to the ground. Fantastic offstage tool for edge guarding. The knockback is decent, but underwhelming. Don't be surprised if people are surviving this move at higher percentages.
Dair: A mix of the Brawl and P:M dairs. While taking the spike from P:Ms dair, but staying at the same speed as the Brawl dair. This move is great for edgeguarding, as it covers so much range. With the spike on it too, you can kill people at VERY low percentages by spiking them down, and then footstooling them at the bottom blastzone afterward.
Nair: Literally just a better version of Brawls nair. Seems to have a bit more range, relatively the same knockback as before, and slightly less landing lag.
Dash attack: EXTREMELY similar to P:Ms sideB. Multiple hitboxes, ending in with a kick. This really solved the problem that Sonics dash attack had in Brawl. In Brawl, at lower percentages, if you were to land a dash attack, you would get hit for landing that hit, making it unsafe on hit confirm. Now, you hit them multiple times, and the kick knocks them far enough away to not make it possible for them to punish you for landing a hit. Good move overall.
Spinshot: I've done it on accident with sideB. It's certainly still in the game, but there's nothing else I can really say about that.
How good is Sonic in this game compared to other characters?
IMO, right now he's somewhere within the top 10.
What characters do you think beat / counter Sonic right now?
Sheik and Yoshi feel really hard to deal with. I haven't played vs one yet, but I'd imagine Lucario or Rosaluma would also be very rough. Mario seems annoying to deal with as well. All his matchups thus far seem winnable, though. I can't imagine him having a matchup worse than -1.
How should people be using this character? What kind of playstyle should be applied?
For now, I'm not going to say much about this. The game is a week old, so there's no set in stone strategy for how someone should play a character. But what I do is all situational. The character you're playing against, the situation of the match, and what stage you're playing on all hold a piece of play into what you can or should apply. If you're vs a character with no projectile or strong zoning tools, and you have a stock lead, you're free to camp him, bait out his kill attempts, and punish hard for their greed. If you're playing from behind in the same situation, you should be looking for some some sort of opening in their gameplay that'll net you a kill, let it be a habit, or something you've conditioned them into doing. This is getting on a tangent of how to play smash, so I'll stop this here.
Any neat combo setups?
DownB > Dair offstage feels amazing. There's a potential double jump into footstool, INTO a spring. Beyond overkill, and works at relatively lower percents (40-50ish).
First hit Uair > Utilt feels really good, and does decent damage.
Fair can string into itself vs heavier characters.
Uair can string into itself with the assistance of platforms.
The 2008 uthrow > upB > uair can still work in this game, but at much lower percentages in this game compared to Brawls.
SideB > Uair puts them in the air, while racking on around ~22 percent.
Comboing aerials out of the hop of sideB also works really well, and the hop has decent priority.
Cool tricks to the trade?
SideB can shield cancel, but you can also shield cancel out of the hop. So hop onto a platform, shield cancel, then shield drop through the platform. It's not that hard to do, but it's super swag.
upB OoS is really good if you feel super pressured in your shield. Landing on your grounded spring is like P:M, where it resets your upB, making it so you can do specials in the air again. THUS making this option even more reliable than it was in Brawl.
You can do footstools out of the hop from sideB. Doing these offstage, in conjunction with a spring, is really powerful. I'm not 100% on this, but the spring still is weak enough to jab reset. So potential Espy combo?? Unfortunately you can only get a maximum of 3 jabs now on a jab reset, but still...the potential is there.
DDP (Dash Dance Pivoting) is still in this game, and all of its options out of it are also still in the game. It does feel harder to do now, but that's probably because of the control scheme that the 3DS offers.
While on the topic of dashing options, the little slide you could do on your initial dash animation is also still in the game.
Invincible SpinDash Roll (for the Brawl Sonics, iSDR) where you'd use sideB on a slope at 45 degrees or greater, is no longer in the game. The hop of sideB jumps much higher now. Although sideB itself may still have invincibility on startup, not 100% sure of that yet though. Someone should test this. :O
Welp. That about wraps up my thoughts on smash 4 Sonic. Hopefully someone actually reads all this, and this sparks up some input from other users and gets the ball rolling...haha...get it...cuz sonic is a ball...hahaha...ha...ha... Yeah, I'll quit while I'm ahead here.
and have been using aerials out of side-B like crazy (have been doing down-B) thanks to you I body people <3 and the Uair>Utilt is my one true love